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Speedometer not working! HELP :(

28K views 11 replies 4 participants last post by  Sash22  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have a 2001 kia rio "auto trans". I got a very frustrating problem, if anyone could help me out I will appreciate it very much! I will go in detail to save time and not have to ask too much so bare with me please.
(Before this all happen, I was told by Kia that i had to change my abs sensor "which this car only has one in the right tire" when i went in for a rough idle issue that i was having. So i got a new one and install it since then i didn't get any abs sensor codes, but keep in mind even when this abs sensor was bad i was still able to see my speed working fine.)
This is what happen. I had a cheap mechanic changing my rack and pinion for a leak "$ problem", when i got the car back i notice my speed on the instrument gauge wasn't working no more (and the O/D light which i usually like to turn it off and this light shows up that it's off was only staying on for about 10 second once i start driving then the light goes away like it's not functioning.) The speed in the cluster only work twice at the random after this happen and only stay for a little and the speed was unstable "jumping up and down". Ran a diagnosis and got the codes: P0501; P1500; P0740;
After that I thought it could of just been my "VSS" going bad so I got a brand new one from Kia it self. After installing it, I took the car for a ride. Notice my speed was working again! went on the highway right after that going 65 mph... press on the gas pedal to accelerate, next thing you know the speed went up very fast from 65 to 75 then i put enough pressure to bring it back to 65... wanting to try again to see what was going on... I did the same thing but this time i accelerated even more.. next thing you know it went from 65 to the max 120 mhp in literally half a second and goes down directly to zero!!! Since then it never work again! brought it to the shop this time since i had no choice at this point! i think they mention they took out the sensor and test it out and said it was working fine. They clean the VSS connector and where it connects in the vss with electrical cleaner since they notice a cable from the rack pinion was leaking around the area where it's mounted on top of the transmission. After that they put the vss back and took it for a ride still no reading in my speed. They told me it might be the instrument cluster that went bad so i change it "keep in mind my tachometer is working fine". After changing same thing just the tach working not the speedometer side. Since the code P0740 was part of the codes. I brought the car to a transmission mechanic. He ran the diagnosis and same codes showed up. So he went and took the car for a ride to check out the transmission. He said my transmission was fine and he told me the shifting problems that i was noticing with the car sometimes is because of the two other codes that i had beside the "P0740 TCC" that's all he told me and that's where i stand till now just have no idea what to do any more?! Please help me out?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Sounds like the "guys" that replaced the rack and pinion may have disturbed one (or more) of your wiring harnesses when they replaced the the r/p...

If you only have one sensor then you don't have ABS as it needs to check/compare the speeds of at least the two wheels and most likely all four... The sensor on the right front wheel is for actual car speed reading... Most KIAs with automatics have two "tachs" on the transmission... One for input speed (RPMs) going into the tranny and one for output speed for RPMs driving the wheels.... The first also sends the RPM signal to your tach and supplies the engine speed to the TCM (transmission control module)... The second also sends the output RPMs to the TCM and the TCM compares the two and make a judgment call on what gear to select and if the car is standing still or slowing down...

The second tach sensor may also be used to send the RPMs to the speedometer after the speed is calculated for the size tires it has been programed for... Different diameter tires will cause speed errors to be displayed so the TCM or ECM does these calculations... The sensor on the right front wheel may or may not supply the actual speed/output RPMs but it should not effect the shift points or the smoothness of the shifting in the transmission... So....

The P0740 (torque converter clutch circuit malfunction) again points to probably a problem with your wiring harnesses/connectors/wiring damage and because you have two different problems (output RPMs and the above P0740) related to the transmission wiring I'd highly suggest you focus on a wiring problem or output tach sensor..

Here is a good post on a Sportage that had the other two codes. His problem turned out to be a bad cruse control unit...
http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/76796-kia-sportage-codes-p0501-p1500.html
Because you loose the Speedo and the tranny shifts are off I'd still go with the output speed/RPM sensor.

I may be totally wrong but logic points to them...
Dave
 
#3 ·
Thank you very much for your advices! I appreciate it!
I will go and check the wiring! and about that output speed sensor, i have a question.. i bought it on ebay and look up for abs wheel speed sensor "since thats what Kia told me i needed to change.." The post said: abs wheel speed sensor brakes front right passenger" so i bought it. Do you think it could of been a faulty sensor? since I heard it works with a magnetic field to give out the reading would it be possible as well that this after market sensor wasnt going as deep down the hole that it wouldnt work? Also what i found weird is that when i change the VSS it actually work until when i test it out on the highway like i mention. This threw me off cause it actually worked you know.. I also heard it could be a blown meter fuse? not sure if i should check for this too
 
#4 ·
Hey sash22 been there and done that dave is right if you only have one sensor on the right side front and none on the rest of the wheels you probably dont have Abs. maybe im wrong. anyhow that sensor on the right wheel that looks at the teeth in the drive shaft is the speed feedback for the ecm code 501. The speedometer sensor is on the tranny there are 2 sensors the input turbine speed sensor, and the tranny speed sensor code 1500. I had the same issue with mine check the wires on the connector that plugs into the speed sensor maybe one is broken. did kia read your abs codes most scanners wont read our old cars abs codes special connector not the obdII how did you get the codes did not see them codes they are 2 digit codes? anyhow the speed sensor on the tranny feeds the speedometer and the speedometer feeds the tranny with that info. if your speedometer jumps around check the wires in the plug to the sensor hope this helps some. i thought you need 4 wheel disk brakes with rotors not drums for abs but i may be wrong about that. Check your wires. Reguards ronjohn
 
#5 ·
@ronjohn Thank you very much! Those information helps a lot.
"Update" So i spoke to the kia parts department and ask to look up that sensor for me and the guy mention my car doesn't have abs but he did notice about that sensor on the wheel that i mention... he said that it was the only one like you guys mention it and it's called the "wheel sensor assembly".
To answer your first question.. Yes when i had went to the kia before this all happen, they ran a whole diagnosis on the car and that's when they told me that i had a faulty sensor on my right front wheel.
That "input sensor on the wheel" i bought it on ebay and all i notice after looking it up was the abs wheel speed sensor.. The post said: abs wheel speed sensor brakes front right passenger" so i bought it. Do you think it could of been a faulty sensor? since I heard it works with a magnetic field to give out the reading would it be possible as well that this after market sensor wasnt going as deep down the hole that it wouldnt work? cause when i compare the orginal when i took it out they look the same but just a little bite different as far as where you stick the sensor was sticking more upwards. Keep in mind the Vss sensor mounted on top of the transmission was change. I bought a brand new on from Kia it self.
After seeing @DavesSpectra post. i went a head and try to check the wiring since it's the next step that I had to do next. Since i had already change both of the sensors. Also clean the vss connector and the back of it as well with electric cleaner and try to make sure those connecters were connected properly as far as the vss and the input sensor on the wheel.
To be honest went a head to check those wiring and i couldn't really tell much when i follow it. the sensor on the wheel wiring was going thru the front of the engine right by the radiator close to the battery like it was going towards the fuse box.
Did some research and notice some people talking about checking the meter fuse that this could be the reason why my O/D don't stay off on the instrument cluster when i turn it off on the stick shift and that it might play a role with the speed not showing. Can you confirm that for me please? I try to look for it on the fuse graph on the top of the fuse box and could seem to find the meter fuse?? Not sure if goes by another name for my car or a code??
 
#6 ·
sash22 they may be the same but probably not the gap is critical on mag pickups its only 5 thousand,s max. any how the tranny speed sensor feeds the speedometer the wheel speed sensor feeds the ecm fix or replace the tranny speed sensor for your speedometer issues first and ckeck your wiring also.
 
#7 ·
@ronjohn i did change the VSS "tranny sensor" i got a brand new one from kia. When i put it on, it was working until when accelerated and the speed jump up and down then went all the way max out to 120 then went down to 0 mph.. Since this happen i havent seen a sign of the speedometer working again. Could it be the meter fuse?
 
#8 ·
I go along with ronjohn...The wheel sensor alignment with the tach gear on the right front axle is pretty critical.. It has to be close to pick up the magnetic field generated when the teeth go buy it... You really need to "scope" the sensors to see if they are aligned properly and are outputting the proper amplitude signal levels..
Dave
 
#9 ·
Wheel sensor and trans sensor can be checked using a multimeter. They both have a a low voltage output.

Start by checking the one on the wheel for continuity. You may want to get your old one out and check it too. Its possible the sensor is good, but, as mentioned earlier, something was damaged when the rack was installed.

Then you can check the output. A analog meter works best for this. Hook up the meter for low volts DC, and spin the wheel by hand. You should see the needle jump. The same works for the VSS on the trans.

Make sure the wheel sensor fits all the in and there is no gap between the hub and the mount tab. Also remove it and make sure there is no debris on the end of the sensor.

For me the wheel sensor is now a mystery solved. I notice it on my car during brake work and thought it was odd the have an ABS sensor when the car doesnt have ABS!

The speedo problem SHOULD have been taken up with the shop that changed the rack, and before any other work was done.

-SP
 
#10 ·
@speedy25 Thank you very much for those informations! How would i be able to check the wheel sensor if it's not a wheel? Its a magnent.. As far as my orginal wheel sensor, i had to literraly break it to take it off since it was stuck and did not want to get off the where it was mounted. I just dont understand the same as you. All over the ebay they mention it as an abs sensor. I wonder if they're meant for the same thing. Could this be my problem?...
 
#11 ·
The sensor is used for both functions... When ABS is not installed it is used to sense wheel movement and the speed of the movement..

I have also had to destroy the old ABS sensor on the right rear wheel of my 06 Spectra..
I had some not so kind words to say to it as I worked to remove it... I ended up in using a blowtorch to melt it and then a screwdriver and hammer to knock out the remains..Then I sanded the inside of the hole down to bare metal...before installing the new sensor...

The distance from the sensor to the toothed reluctor (toothed gear) is critical... If it is too far from the reluctor either low or no output will come from the sensor.. It has to be very close (in a couple thousands of an inch).
Dave
Speedy meant after re-installing the wheel spin it... as it then turns the reluctor...
 
#12 · (Edited)
@DavesSpectra @ronjohn @speedy25 Thank you guys very much guys for your help! found the problem! It was a ground problem! it wasn't making the right contact due to a majoy other problem that ive also been dealing with my car. My car is vibrating a lot only when I turn the A/C is on and it's on idle at a stop either on "R or D"... When its on "N or P" it doesnt vibrate as roughly... Also the vibration decrease a lot when i turn the A/C button off but i still keep the fan running only so i can still get some air when the car is on idle so it doesn't shake really bad and that's at any gears... So lately instead of having the A/C on when the car is on idle.. I shift to neutral gear so the car doesnt vibrate as roughly. So i kept it that way.. to press the A/C button off and i just deal with a slight vibration not as bad as when the A/C is on...
I've been keeping notes to see what could off been the cause of that.. I ended up changing spark plugs, spark plugs wires, ignition coil, Idle air control valve, clean up my carburator,fuel filter, pcv valve and hose, "this other hose from the top of the engine (connected right by the pcv hose) that goes to the back of the carburator seem like another vacuum hose did that too. Keep in mind i change all of that. Meanwhile i also have an engine valve cover gasket failure since i notice the oil leaking around the top of the engine where the gasket is. So I ended up changing it yesterday.. When i was changing it i had to take those two new hose i mention that i change which is the pcv hose and that other one that goes to the carburator... I realize there was some oil in those hose that went all the way on the other end... Also notice spark plugs 2 - 1 had some slightly oil on it and oil residue around the screw area..not sure what symptoms those could have on my car and if the oil in the hose and spark plugs was cause by my gasket failure???
Something else i also want to point out.. I notice at some point that there was a open hole in my intake box filter... it looks like vacuum hose maybe was there? but nothing to really attach the connection for a hose to.. it was just like a open hole "ex: like it was drill in or something".... cause of that i notice dust inside the filter box.. so i ended up cleaning that up as well as the mass air flow sensor.. just in case, which was about 3 months ago.. not that my car was stalling or giving out some mfa sensor symptoms which i know rough idle is part of it.. keep in my mind my air filter's side where the rubber is is slit cut so its not sitting too well and kind of notice some dust when i was looking at it yesterday.. this is my situation with my car now desperately need your help and expertise and advice on those issues.. Sorry for this long message but i thought mentioning everything will help find the exact problem. Thank you hope I can hear from you guys soon!