[AndyCr15]

I didn't. I suggested that you meant they were fine (which it turns out you did) and you got upset, so I said exactly what you said, which was worse... and you got upset again.

Then you made a comment that makes me think perhaps you don't know so much as I thought you might when it comes to people that do something as a job (for a company with restrictions) and people who do something as it's their passion, so I await others comments instead.

 

[Ace Demon]

Try to brake from 180km/h to 60Km/h and see what happens. Or better yet, I'll tell you what happens: from 180 to ~100 it will be ok, from ~100 to 60, you better say your prayers... because brakes will fade like crazy!

On the other hand, the supplied pads work straightaway from cold while driving at 40km/h through residential streets. Brake pads can't cover every situation and there is no perfect solution.

 

[AndyCr15]

And isn't that the point? An ECU would surely be set up for one way of driving? Mapping it will set it for a different way? Surely there's no one perfect set up?

 

[FrEaKZoIdE]

On the other hand, the supplied pads work straightaway from cold while driving at 40km/h through residential streets. Brake pads can't cover every situation and there is no perfect solution.

So do EBC Greenstuff... which are the ones I use since 40K Km.
Initial bite is better and they don't fade with a single "high speed" stop, like the stock ones do, make less brake dust and are cheaper! Only downside is they don't last as long, they wear in about 3/4 of time sooner than stock.
I used to drive a Corsa B before the Ceed and the stock brakes on handled temperatures MUCH better than the Ceed with stock pads.

 

[SWCeed]

I didn't. I suggested that you meant they were fine (which it turns out you did) and you got upset, so I said exactly what you said, which was worse... and you got upset again.

Then you made a comment that makes me think perhaps you don't know so much as I thought you might when it comes to people that do something as a job (for a company with restrictions) and people who do something as it's their passion, so I await others comments instead.

Andy, don't be such a total fuk wit.

The brakes are fine, end of story. I have no issues with them.

 

[Ace Demon]

And isn't that the point? An ECU would surely be set up for one way of driving? Mapping it will set it for a different way? Surely there's no one perfect set up?

Are you old enough to have experienced cars from the bad old days of carburettors? The whole point of software control is the ability to devise maps of points, not to be restricted to two fixed points and have to hope for the best in between.

 

[seven7]

And isn't that the point? An ECU would surely be set up for one way of driving? Mapping it will set it for a different way? Surely there's no one perfect set up?

When a car is mapped it does not matter how its going to be driven. The map is correct for the requirements of the engine at a certain rpm and load site. If you drive flat out all the time the map will be correct for that type of use. If you drive around town slowly the map will be correct for that type of use.

At the lower load/rpm sites petrol ECU's (not sure about diesels) have an ability to adjust the fueling to compensate for the slight differences between individual engines.

So a correctly set up ECU is theoretically perfect in all circumstances and in reality another 1000 hours of fine tuning would never be noticed by any driver.

 

[Ace Demon]

So do EBC Greenstuff.

My only comment about the Ceed is that the brakes have lag when on the motorway and brake lights go on ahead. When I had a Primera I could accurately set a constant gap whereas the Ceed closes up and needs a harder press to make up. But it's not the worst. Though I now have fewer complaints from the wife about how I brake for junctions.

I've heard good things about EBC. Looks as though worth investigating for the wider temperature range.

 

[AndyCr15]

The brakes are fine, end of story. I have no issues with them.

Wow, hold on. You ripped me a new one for me saying you said 'the brakes are fine!' It turns out I must have just had a vision from the future!

As I said, 'I have no issues with them' really doesn't answer the question asked/point made in any way at all.

 

[AyJay]

Just to add a little more fuel to this fire, heres a link to a UK site that provides an aftermarket package for a UK car aprroved by Ford UK as an accessory and will not affect warranty......

Fiesta ST (2013 >)

Note the bit that says, Revised engine calibration. IE a remap that helps increse the power and torque!

Going by what has been said on here would it be fair to ask, "But surely Ford know best and get the best possible from their engine?" So why do they not only allow an aftermarket company to provide an upgrade but in fact endorse it and allow it to be fited without affecting warranty?????

Cars ECU are not only mapped to optimum performance but also to meet emissions regulations and to pass drive by noise tests.

Coming from a background of motorcycle tuning both with carbs in the old days and now injection, there is a lot to be gained by reflashing the ECU to remove the restrictions imposed by the EU and their emissions and noise limits. You will get a smoother power curve with no flat spots and very likely to get a slight increase in fuel consumption. An engine running slightly richer will give less power that one with optimium fuelling but will be quiter. And dont ask me why, it just is! If youre that curious then use the internet and find out why! But stoichiometric combustion would be a good place to start! And then of course theres lean burn engines that are set up for economy rather than outright performance, im sure a remap would certainly increase the performance of this engine but at the expense of fuel economy. Horses for courses! And finally having an engine mapped by the factory to, for instance allow it into a certain road tax bracket.

My 09 Pro is the 109hp version yet later versions are 89hp. Why? Was the 109 hp version unreliable? Well ive done almost 70k miles in 5 years with no issues at all. Or was the engine detuned (Probably by just a remap!) to allow it to fit into a lower CO2 bracket for cheaper road tax??????

And now from a performance point of view, by changing the silencer on my bike for a less restrictive one and having the fuelling adjusted to suit i have managed to see the power go up from 128hp at the rear wheel to 143hp with absolutely no loss in reliabilty etc. Just allowing the engine to breathe better and having the fuelling adjusted to suit..... So the manufacturer doesnt know best, at least not when they are restricted by local laws!!!!

So you see, yes the manufacturer may have spent thousands of hours developing their engine etc but they will then have to make sure they can confirm to local emissions and noise limits. To do this they will have to make compromises....... An aftermarket developer will just return the engine to what the factory wanted but werent allowed to do!

 

[skidlid]

My 09 Pro is the 109hp version yet later versions are 89hp. Why? Was the 109 hp version unreliable?

As far as I am aware Kia never made a 109 bhp(PS) version of the Mk1 1.6 CRDi. The 89 bhp model was added to the range sometime after introduction, the original 115 bhp(PS) version continued from introduction until the Mk 2 was introduced. The 128 bhp version was added late in the models life in the "4" spec version.

In the new model the 1.6 128 bhp model continues but the 89 bhp is now a 1.4.

In the Hyundai i30 a 110 bhp version of the 1.6 CRDi is available but since its only £300 cheaper than the 128 bhp version I honestly wonder if they sell any.

 

[Ace Demon]

Coming from a background of motorcycle tuning both with carbs in the old days and now injection, there is a lot to be gained by reflashing the ECU to remove the restrictions imposed by the EU and their emissions and noise limits. You will get a smoother power curve with no flat spots and very likely to get a slight increase in fuel consumption.

It is always said but nobody has ever proved that electronic tuning improves fuel consumption! Don't forget that for the most part people are talking about ECU settings of diesel engines; totally different to petrol engines and with different potentials.

My 09 Pro is the 109hp version yet later versions are 89hp. Why? Was the 109 hp version unreliable? Well ive done almost 70k miles in 5 years with no issues at all. Or was the engine detuned (Probably by just a remap!) to allow it to fit into a lower CO2 bracket for cheaper road tax??????

Looks like a mistake in the brochure, not a change to the engine. The quoted torque remains at 101lbft@5000rpm which works out to 95hp. So the power at 5K is greater than the "maximum" at 6K. Err...

Current Hyundai brochures quote 101@4200 and 98@5500 which makes more sense.

Just allowing the engine to breathe better and having the fuelling adjusted to suit..... So the manufacturer doesnt know best, at least not when they are restricted by local laws!!!!

Of course, but there's an enormous difference between electronic and hardware tuning. You change the hardware because manufacturers are bound by cost limits. ECU settings are set solely by technical decisions not by accountants.

 

[SWCeed]

Coming from a background of motorcycle tuning both with carbs in the old days and now injection, there is a lot to be gained by reflashing the ECU to remove the restrictions imposed by the EU and their emissions and noise limits.

I come from a background of tuning cars in a similar way but on a modern normally aspirated petrol there is very little to be gained unless you do a lot of work to the ancillaries and the manufacturer fitted fuel injection. It not as simple as it used to be in the days when you simply fitted a pair of Weber carbs, made more noise, used more fuel and hopefully made more power.

Take the engine in my Kit car. It was original intended for a Mk 1 2 litre Ford Focus but it was never fitted, I bought it as a crate engine from Ford fitted with most of the ancillaries including inlet and exhaust but no ECU. The standard manifolds are of no use in my car since the engine has been turned 90 degrees and there is simply no space, sold them on Ebay. The exhaust is a one off stainless 4 into 1 with a 2 1/4" diameter silencer in which the individual headers are of an almost identical length and optimised for the type of power delivery I desired. The induction system has been replaced with a pair of dual Jenvey Throttle Bodies on a cast manifold that is available commercially. The Injectors were sized for the expected power output with 20% spare capacity.

The Ford ECU is of no use in installations like this, it is not programmable plus it can be almost impossible to get it to work without the Ford instruments etc and immobiliser. A simpler way is to buy one of the many aftermarket ECU's available, I chose the MBE since it is used by OEM's and is of a much higher quality than others at a similar price. The seller also had a base map for my engine and sensors meaning very little work would be needed to optimise the set up.

So instead of the standard 135 bhp that the engine gives in the Focus I now have a genuine 175 bhp. No internal changes have been made since the engine has been proven to be capable of over 200 bhp with standard internals. But it comes at a cost, the parts alone added up to almost £1500.

Was it worth it, of course it was, the car will do 0-60 in under 5 seconds but will still average just over 30 mpg over the course of a summer. The same car with a similar engine giving less power on carbs only did 25 mpg.

 

[AyJay]

As far as I am aware Kia never made a 109 bhp(PS) version of the Mk1 1.6 CRDi.QUOTE]

But they did in the petrol. And as we seem to be mixing both pertol and diesil models in this topic now.....