[gepperso]

Thank you for all of the information.
I'm also looking for a K&N Air Filter they seem to give an increase in MPG.

 

[PLP]

Nope. Your conclusions are wrong. Join the misinformation club.

Not familiar at all w/Bolt, but where does the energy come from to "heat up battery"?...Everything I've read over the past few years about EV battery tech is that "Observation 1" is spot-on. But these batteries become less efficient in both the cold AND the hot.

Just look at lead acid car batteries. Anyone ever have trouble starting their non-electrified cars in the cold?

"Density of air" (never seen anyone claim their EV's get much better range in Denver) and "colder bearings" (really!? After the car has started moving and these bearings heat up?) may have a pittance of an effect, but not to the degree of 10-20% battery efficiency loss that we all see every winter and every hot summer day in our hybrids and EVs.

Real Range for Electric Cars by Temperature & Weather

Note that your Bolt is actually the worst winter range performer in that chart in the middle of that article. Must have the worst air drag coefficient?...

What is efficiency? Please define the term for me.
Efficiency means that you get less, say product, from reaction. For example, just hypothetically, you mix 60 g of one reactant with 100 g of another, you get 160 of product if the reaction yields 100%, right? So, at 90% you will get 0.9x160.

That is NOT the case in batteries. You still get the same capacity.

What you get is SLOWER reaction. Efficiency is still the same, but reaction rate changes. It means at at 25 C you can produce 100 A from your battery, but at 0 C it will make 80 A, or at -20 C it will make 65 A. Just some example.

If we agree on it - let's move on.

The BEV batteries are capable of producing a lot of power (their max power output). Just for Bolt. It has about 60 kWh battery that can produce 400 A. Overall battery pack voltage is 400 V - that means it can provide roughly 160 kW of power. However, for everyday drive you need 80-100 kW (acceleration). To maintain 70 mph it is roughly 25 kW. That means you need 15% of its ability to drive the car.
I agree, on cold days, if the car sat for a few hours outdoor, even when it is full, I will see maybe 140 kW output. It is lowered by not the battery itself, but by the software.
Yet, by the end of the day, I see report that I used same amount of energy - 40-45 kWh. Summer or winter (MI winter, so snow, freeze, all the works).

Now, where the energy is going to?
Rolling resistance. Heating. Air drag.

I never purely tested air drag, but there was a guy on Bolt forum, from I think South Korea, who reported that one day, on his 100? miles trip to work, he averages say 3.8 m/kWh in warm day, just the very next, with also full battery, when the ambient dropped to 5 C, it was 20% less range. Battery was still warm. It was the air, the ambient temperature, that drove more energy use.

I can; however, tell you this - even RAIN increases energy use. I see about 10% drop in range in the rain. Not heavy rain, enough to make the road stay wet.
Why? Air density, water on the road (one thing is driving through water and another is "lifting" water from puddles). If you think of it - there is a lot of water that needs to be lifted and sprayed around. All of this needs energy. The tires stick more to the road. No, no more drip, just more energy needed to roll it.
Air density increases by about 10% between 25 C and 5 C. Add more stiff lubricants...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air

So, in general - it is a wrong term talking about efficiency. Reaction is still the same. It is much slower at times. Then, weather factors compound on the final efficiency of your drive.

The best comparison for cold battery is honey or oil. Put honey into a 1 liter jar. Keep it warm, say 30 C. Then pour it out. It will flow nicely. Repeat the process at 10 C - it will be much slower. Do it at 0 C. It will take forever. Yet, the amount of honey is still the same. The amount of honey per time unit is different. In other words, battery capacity is still the same, reaction efficiency is still the same, reaction rate changed.


Final remarks - what I suspect is the problem with hybrids is that the batteries are driven near their limits. Like in Bolt I need 20 kW to drive the car, I will need maybe 22-25 kW for Sportage. While it means nothing in Bolt - at 60 kWh battery you get 400 A, so 50 A vs 60 A is no change, for Sportage it might be at the limit.

Sportage has 1.5 kWh battery and max output 64 kW. That is more than enough to power the car in many occasions, yet the algorithm does not allow for it.


EDIT.
Why Bolt failed miserably in the winter test? Due to its heating system.
While many cars have heat pumps or PTC heaters, GM opted for a coolant loop with a heater core. Just like in ICE cars. That makes the system very inefficient as the energy is lost in many places before it reaches the cabin. Not to mention that once you are done driving, all the 2 liters of coolant, plus hoses, metal containers (heating element) lose the energy to the ambient.

 

[gepperso]

Whew Gosh I like my Hybrid!

 

[MidnightVoice]

Considering the new Sportage Hybrid. Wanted to see if any owners can report what your real world MPG looks like. I also just learned the LX FWD is quite a few MPGs better than the AWD variants. Haven’t looked into hybrids ever but with current gas prices especially in CA these hybrids seem like the way to go. We would have gone EV but our apartment complex does not have chargers. Thanks in advance!!

I have a 2026 Sportage SX prestige hybrid, and after the 600 miles settling in period I took a trip from Raleigh to the Outer Banks and went up and down the barrier Islands. Two thirds highway driving, but NOT interstate, the rest regular roads, one lane in each direction or two lane with lots of stop lights. Total of about 600 miles, starting with a full tank of regular gas and refilling at the half way point. First tank gave me an average of 37.3 mpg, second tank 35.7 mpg.

 

[Togarth]

30ish seems to be the average in my 2025 EX.

 

[motosonic]

My 2023 SX-P now gets about 35MPG average in good weather when I’m driving a decent average miles as on short trips under like 10 miles it just kills my mpg. In the winter it’s more like 27mpg so it’s a significant difference.

As mentioned earlier in this thread I did struggle with mileage earlier but now I’m around 11,000 mileage and I get 35mpg consistently as long as I’m not doing a lot of short trips. Short trips mostly engage the ice and the mileage on that is dreadful.

 

[gepperso]

I mostly drive short distances around town. The last fill up it (The computer) registered 32 MPG.
Coming from a 2022 Toyota Tundra only 18 to 19 MPG I don't mind the 32 MPG for now.

 

[gepperso]

Here is a picture from yesterday when I went to Dahlonega about 1.5 hours 1 way.
This is when I was close to getting home. I set cruise control and let it roll.

 

[PLP]

Just for the fun and giggles... I just did a round trip, 95% highway, sunny day. 75 miles one way, so total 150 miles.
Morning was warm, about 16 C. Traffic small, open road, no stops. A couple of little slowdowns. No AC.
Afternoon, return, warm, 26 C. A bit more traffic, a few minutes (about a mile) stop and go. AC set at 23 C.

I set the CC speed at 60 mph. All the time except on the side roads (35-55 - total maybe 4 miles on those roads).
According to the Google Maps - elevation change - drop 400 ft one way, gain 400 ft on the back (makes sense right?).

The only difference on the way there I was on reserve fuel, on the way back full tank. No, I did not drive 75 miles to get gas

Results?
Impressing.
Way there 47 MPG US indicated.
Return 44 MPG US indicated.

I find my car to be very close to calculated vs indicated.

When I was covering this route at 70 mph - I got about 38-36 mpg. Just a few days earlier. Same weather, same traffic.

 

[elcam84]

Just for the fun and giggles... I just did a round trip, 95% highway, sunny day. 75 miles one way, so total 150 miles.
Morning was warm, about 16 C. Traffic small, open road, no stops. A couple of little slowdowns. No AC.
Afternoon, return, warm, 26 C. A bit more traffic, a few minutes (about a mile) stop and go. AC set at 23 C.

I set the CC speed at 60 mph. All the time except on the side roads (35-55 - total maybe 4 miles on those roads).
According to the Google Maps - elevation change - drop 400 ft one way, gain 400 ft on the back (makes sense right?).

The only difference on the way there I was on reserve fuel, on the way back full tank. No, I did not drive 75 miles to get gas

Results?
Impressing.
Way there 47 MPG US indicated.
Return 44 MPG US indicated.

I find my car to be very close to calculated vs indicated.

When I was covering this route at 70 mph - I got about 38-36 mpg. Just a few days earlier. Same weather, same traffic.

It's ben my experience that it does better cruising.

Misery season where it's 95-115 it drops to around 34
Summer part 1 and 2 which are either side of misery season where it's 92-95 it's 37ish
Spring and fall it's 40 or so
Winter spells when it was 12* drop it to around 34

Lots of stop and go driving will drop you to 34 and possibly less. The PHEV is a better choice for those with mainly in town driving and very high and very low temps but performance of the battery drops off in both temp ranges so take that into consideration.

I haven't done a long distance trip with ours yet to see how it does on them but the high temps will degrade that allot here. I prefer to fly as I hate road trips.

I wish the display of the hybrid section was better. It's very simple on the 25 and there is no data logging as it resets every time you open the screen. It would be interesting to know how many KWH you have regenerated over the life of the car etc.

Oh and as for the calculated on the dash vs doing the math when refilling i stopped doing the math because it's really close. The fuel flow sensors and injector calculations are pretty good now. And for those saying car companies lie about mileage numbers. Well no they don't They have to publish numbers done on an EPA test cycle and they have no influence on those numbers. Driving style temp traffic terrain play a huge role in mileage.

 

[NickD]

I have a 2026 Sportage SX prestige hybrid, and after the 600 miles settling in period I took a trip from Raleigh to the Outer Banks and went up and down the barrier Islands. Two thirds highway driving, but NOT interstate, the rest regular roads, one lane in each direction or two lane with lots of stop lights. Total of about 600 miles, starting with a full tank of regular gas and refilling at the half way point. First tank gave me an average of 37.3 mpg, second tank 35.7 mpg.

I have a ‘25 Sportage PHEV, which is a little heavier given the battery requirements. I get an over mpg of mid to high 30s when driving solely in hybrid mode. Considerably better in stop and go traffic when I can drive 35-40 mph and coast when practical. Needless to say, when employing electric mode and not doing trips exceeding 30+ miles, no gas is used.

 

[elcam84]

I have a ‘25 Sportage PHEV, which is a little heavier given the battery requirements. I get an over mpg of mid to high 30s when driving solely in hybrid mode. Considerably better in stop and go traffic when I can drive 35-40 mph and coast when practical. Needless to say, when employing electric mode and not doing trips exceeding 30+ miles, no gas is used.

Nice. The problem I see when people are looking at which to buy is they really don't realize that the HEV and PHEV are different animals and excel in different areas but the car companies don't explain that very well.
We would have been Ok with the PHEV for most of our driving but the $200/yr extra registration fee on them here kills any savings on fuel before even figuring in the cost of charging.