I have on two occasions had my ISG (Idle Stop and Go) fail to start back up on my 2013 Rio. Has anyone else had this problem, and how have you dealt with it?

I don't have ISG but clearly a trip to the dealer is in order.

 

Yes, I've done that. A Kia engineer traveled across the country to look at my car and could not find a problem.

 

I Feel Your Pain



Unfortunately ISG is not yet ready for prime time. I couldn't find a Rio5 on the lot without it, so I am stuck with it. It has some good points, but the bad outweigh the good. They must not have stop signs in South Korea because ISG shuts off the car at every one of them unless you "coast through" - I would think some law suits are already in the works regarding this issue. Who the hell thought of a system that shuts a car off at a stop sign!

The KIA Service Centers in Upstate New York know nothing about ISG and just shake their heads when I ask them a question regarding its operation or lack thereof. It would be absolutely impossible for them to troubleshoot ISG during a test drive. In their opinion if the system doesn't generate an error code on the OBDII everything is working fine!

I have researched the heck out of ISG. Ford is pretty close to getting it right and Mazda does not feel it would be beneficial in the States, although they have a high tech instant re-start system that works well overseas. The current KIA ISG system uses the wrong algorithms so many owners just by-pass it throwing away $400.00 (for the privilege of owning ISG) and winding up with a battery that costs over $200.00 to replace.

I believe ISG can work, but a lot more thought needs to be put into the system...

 

Out of curiosity.... are you stepping on the gas the second it stops?.... or are you stopping, its been off for a second or two.. then trying to go.....

 

to Sdgc: I stop at a traffic light, sit during the light with my foot on the brake, take my foot off the brake and an alarm goes off and the car needs to be manually restarted.

to ELI 10: Has your ISG ever failed?

 

No - My ISG has never failed to restart. I have never had an error light or alarm come on. Marley Fan is right - this is definitely a dealer issue, but if it is intermittent they are going to have a difficult time diagnosing the problem.

Did your dealer look at data from the OBDII port?

Did your dealer perform the ISG TSB? This is very important because this TSB patch resolved a lot of issues with the ISG system.

You can sign up on the KGIS site to check this out. Information for KGIS is posted all over this forum.

 

Got the same ISG not auto starting, about once a week, on Kia Ceed SW (manual). Clutch in - motor does not start, ISG counter continue to count untill started with the key.

 

ISG not restarting

The ISG in my 2013 Rio 5 is having the same problem: Stop at an intersection, engine shuts off, but does not always successfully start again when you remove your foot from the brake. I've taken it to the dealer, and also got the, "Cannot reproduce the problem" response.

THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, AND IS A SEVERE SAFETY ISSUE. Imagine a scenario where a car is coming up behind you as the light changes. Noticing the light has changed, that driver is going to expect you to move. Someone will eventually get hit because of this malfunctioning "feature," and the lawsuits will begin.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE... Just give me an option to permanently disable the ISG!!!

 

I wish the ISG computer had a voice activated component - so rather than just stopping the engine, it would actually say "I am about to stop, OK?" and give the driver 2 seconds to respond with either "Yes - go ahead" or "Ah, No, not just now thanks - very decent of you to offer, and I understand your green intentions, but actually I can see that traffic ahead is starting to move and in about 2.5 seconds from now you will just have to hit the starter solenoid and grind that bendix, so hey lets not bother." (or words to that effect).

I understand the concept of ISG - to save fuel & reduce emisions - but sometimes that computer needs to read the road better! I worry about the extra wear&tear on each component part from the battery through to the gear teeth on the starter/engine. I also worry that its controlled by a computer program and takes input from many sensors. Facts: Computer programs have bugs. Components wear out.

I especially dislike when I pull into a parking space - and stop - and ISG stops engine - but then when you shift to Park it triggers* a restart - and then - you turn the key to OFF - thus one totally wasted engine start cycle. (*or is it taking the foot of the brake, as you are now in park that triggers it?). In this situation I've taken to turning the ignition OFF and then shifting to Park - however - the side effect of this is a loud whine from the passenger seat.

Now a more serious concern - I can't prove this - but my wife was with me and we both heard/felt "something" : We pulled into parking space, braked to standstill, and then . . . it sounded/felt like the ISG 'stop' and 'start' components were fighting each other - no grinding of gears or other nasty noises but just a sensation that the engine was stopping and immediately restarting and immediately stopping - my swift reaction was to turn the ignition off. After a few moments of silence and worried looks - we restarted, and re-stopped and all was OK, and indeed has been for the 7 days since then.

I know there is an over-ride switch - but I wish it would 'remember' its last setting - also I wish it was located on the steering wheel. I think the switch is difficult to locate quickly - especially as when I seem to need to hit it is when I've read the road ahead and decided that I don't need ISG for this coming stop - so now I'm in a race between finding the switch and braking for the traffic ahead. Not a good time to take eyes of the road.

I love my Rio - but ISG, I don't know for sure.

 

re-reading my own post - it was overly negative - don't get me (totally) wrong, there are times when ISG is excellent . . . its just that I'd like to hear other's views. Thanks!

 

its just that I'd like to hear other's views.

ISG (or at least the inability to switch it permanently off) makes me want to karate chop KIA in the neck and then flick its ear.

 

I've sometimes considered trying for improved economy by regularly stopping the engine and manually restarting my conventional non-ISG, but seems a fairly silly idea; just slightly sillier than getting the car to do it for you (i.e. the ISG option).

I suppose the boffins have tested the improvement in economy in city traffic, but I wonder how bad the traffic would have to be before ISG is worthwhile?

I have always foreseen problems with ISG when you are manoeuvering the car in tight situations or doing 3-point turns. I've also worried about the scenario of pulling into the garage and getting distracted before moving the transmission to Park, and then driving unintentionally into the wall.

There's also the worry about the monitoring software that checks that everything is OK before activating ISG. Is it reliable?

No, it's not for me.

 

Yes

I have made the same exact comments in previous posts. The KIA version of ISG is not ready for prime time. Why in the world would you develop a system that shuts the car off at Stop signs or whenever you shift into park - and then re-start the car again! This is CRAZY. There are some good points for sure, but right now the bad outweigh the good. I'm hoping for some logic tweaks in a TSB, but I'm not sure if KIA reps even bother reading forums like this one. I emailed KIA directly about my concerns with ISG, but I never received a response - go figure.

Obviously the "ISG Off" button was an afterthought, and I totally agree it should be mounted on the steering wheel (for safety) and retain its last on/off state when you shut off the ignition. I can't believe they would constantly default ISG to "on" everytime you start the car. Again - CRAZY Logic

 

I turn it off while driving. I used it for one tank full and gained nothing in mpg and got a lot of start/stop.

 

In my opinion, ISG is just a sales pitch ... for ANY car that has it... it does more harm to your vehicle than necessary, and dosent increase your mpg... if you are stopped in traffic for 10 to 15 minutes, your car uses so little gas id personally have it running than shutting it off and on 10 times a day.

But we must think of the children and their children and the future children of the earth. Sorry, just needed to vent a little.....

cheers

 

I agree about the ISG, not something I would consider (mind you I live out in the country) but having said that,

each minute of idling is equivalent to driving 1 km. If you are stopped for more than a couple of minutes or you figure it will be some time turn off your engine, it takes less fuel to restart it that what you are using sitting idling and much better for the environment.

 

I agree about the ISG, not something I would consider (mind you I live out in the country) but having said that, each minute of idling is equivalent to driving 1 km.

Eh? Driving 1 km in 1 minute is 60 km/h. Are you saying that idling is as thirsty as driving at 60 km/h?

I've seen idling consumption quoted as about 1.2 litres/hour. Driving 60 km in 1 hour will consume about 5 litres in the average car. 2 litre car used as an example.

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/idling_worksheet_light-duty.pdf

 

Yes your mileage MPG is 0mpg when you idle and yes it is better for the environment if you are not idling, BUT, your engine on idle has no load and is VERY efficient (not mileage efficient). Im sure this car would go a couple of days idling before it ran our of gas.. there is NO WAY its going to use the same as driving 1km, especially from a stop as you have to account for acceleration, which is the hardest on fuel consumption.

 

there is NO WAY its going to use the same as driving 1km, especially from a stop as you have to account for acceleration, which is the hardest on fuel consumption.

The issue is fuel consumption at idle, not at acceleration. Both ISG cars and non ISG cars will accelerate the same and use the same fuel after the idle period.

 

from Natural resources Canada for fuel efficiency techniques:

Avoid unnecessary idling – turn off your engine when you park for more than 60 seconds, except in traffic. The average vehicle with a 3L engine wastes 300 ml (more than 1 cup) of fuel for every 10 minutes it idles.
Contrary to popular belief, excessive idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to warm it up is to drive it. With today's computer-controlled engines, no more than 2-3 minutes of idles is usually enough warm-up time before starting to drive – even in cold winter days. (but make sure that windows are free from snow and properly defrosted before driving away).
Under tests in a cold chamber and 3 vehicles, each was cooled to -18ºC (0ºF) and driven over a simulated urban driving cycle using first a 5 minute warm-up and then a 10 minute before driven. Test results on 5 min warm-up fuel consumption increased by 7-14%, with a 10 minute it increased from 12-19%.
You can help reduce the impact of cold starts – and reduce idling times – by using a block heater on a timer. This device warms the coolant, which in turn warm the engine block and lubricants. The engine will start more easily and reach its proper operating temperature faster. Also, it will not have to work as hard to pump oil through the block. At -20ºC (-4F), block heaters can improve overall fuel economy by as much as 10%. For a single short trip at -25ºC (-13F), you fuel savings could be in the order of 25%. To limit the amount of electricity used to operate your block heater, put in on a timer so that it runs 2 hours before you have to leave.
What's often forgotten is that idling warms only the engine – not the wheel bearings, steering, suspension, transmission and tires. These parts also need to be warmed up, and the only way to do that is to drive the vehicle. Until the engine temperature begins to rise, it's a good idea to avoid high speeds and rapid acceleration.

 

ISG is only from the factory.

 

If this is changing to a idle consumption thread rather than thoughts (gripes?) on ISG
- then -
Wry 'Cuda - agreed, normal driving, acceleration, etc.. are red herrings - it's consumption while at a standstill that's at issue.

So far the posts w/ actual figures have been :
Wry 'Cuda - <I've seen idling consumption quoted as about 1.2 L/hr>
Conwelpic - <average vehicle with 3L engine - 300 ml every 10 minutes>
To standardize on L/Hr - Conwelpic's is 1.8 L/hr - that's 50% more than Wry 'Cuda.

I'd hazard that engine size and aspiration need to be defined?

(Guess I'm going to need to oil my slide rule to convert to US Gals & then $. )

 

Repeating link from my previous post; see table bottom left.

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/idling_worksheet_light-duty.pdf

 

The way this thread is going I thought it would be helpful to re-post some information from a previous ISG listing. I think it is relevant, but some of you may may not (just don't continue reading!). I honestly feel that once KIA adds a timer function for STOP signs and parking, moves the ISG activation button to a safer location, and retains the last stae of ISG at startup this would be a nice gas saving feature for drivers who are bombarded by stoplights on a daily basis. The system actually functions smoothly on my car, it is the logic that is flawed.

Data from the California Energy Commission Report 2012

SHOULD I SHUT OFF THE MOTOR WHEN I'M IDLING MY CAR?
HERE'S THE RULE OF THUMB: If you're in a drive-through restaurant/business line or waiting for someone and you'll be parked and sitting for 10 seconds or longer... turn off your car's engine.

Why??

For every two minutes a car is idling, it uses about the same amount of fuel it takes to go about one mile. Research indicates that the average person idles their car five to 10 minutes a day. People usually idle their cars more in the winter than in the summer. But even in winter, you don't need to let your car sit and idle for five minutes to "warm it up" when 30 seconds will do just fine.

But you're not going anywhere. Idling gets ZERO miles per gallon.

The recommendation is: If you are going to be parked for more than 30 seconds, turn off the engine. Ten seconds of idling can use more fuel than turning off the engine and restarting it. And when you start your engine, don't step down on the accelerator, just simply turn the key to start.

Here are some other Myths associated with idling.

Myth #1: The engine should be warmed up before driving. Reality: Idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is to drive the vehicle. With today's modern engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before driving away.

Myth #2: Idling is good for your engine. Reality: Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. Fuel is only partially combusted when idling because an engine does not operate at its peak temperature. This leads to the build up of fuel residues on cylinder walls that can damage engine components and increase fuel consumption.

Myth #3: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle is hard on the engine and uses more gas than if you leave it running. Reality: Frequent restarting has little impact on engine components like the battery and the starter motor. Component wear caused by restarting the engine is estimated to add $10 per year to the cost of driving, money that will likely be recovered several times over in fuel savings from reduced idling. The bottom line is that more than ten seconds of idling uses more fuel than restarting the engine.




When I first began posting about ISG not many Rio owners had it. Now that many of the Rio's are being ordered by dealers with ISG as an option I am seeing many more posts about ISG. Maybe KIA will finally re-program the logic so ISG works in the real world.

Have no fear - this is the last you will hear about ISG from me! (really)

 

More data that is just simply wrong!

For every two minutes a car is idling, it uses about the same amount of fuel it takes to go about one mile.

Why do you accept this as authoritative and ignore the previous posts?

 

I am simply citing a report that was published by The California Energy Commission. I'm not forcing it down anybody's throat...

Who's to say which data is correct? Data of this nature is always biased in some way or shape. It's information to take with a grain of salt.

Can anyone really argue that idling an engine is wasting gas and helping to pollute our natural resources?

 

I have the 1.4 CRDI Rio 3. 6 speed manual. So far I have had zero issues with the ISG. If I stop for only a second or two I simply keep the car in gear and the clutch pushed down. I guess it's a different issue with a automatic transmission.

I think the ISG is rather clever, not engaging if the car hasn't exceeded 5mph , door opened,seatbelt removed, cold engine, low battery etc. (if I remember correctly).

I'm quite happy with it and the lower immisions produced. I would be upset if it failed to start or produced any error at all, fortunately this is not the case. Time will tel if the system holds up! It does seem to be implemented properly and with thought.

The reason why ISG can't be saved in the off position is perhaps a issue related to the official immisions produced by the car, as these can affect tax rates. ISG reduces immisions by ~5% on the 1.4 CRDI engine.

 

I saw that CA Energy Commission report too - and while it has some food for thought it is real short on solid bankable facts. (when I see something prefixed with the words "Studies show . . ." or "Research indicates . . . " I expect to see facts & data)

So - 2 minutes idle = 1 mile? In what car? at what speed? Certainly 2 minutes idle costs $$ more than 2 minutes w/ engine off, nobody is arguing that. The question is when to turn off and when to sit at idle.

I'm checking out this study - How many seconds of idling is equivalent to starting your engine | IWillTry.org Its going to take a couple of beers (or even a glass of red) - but it seems to be suggesting something like "if your idle is <7 seconds - don't stop the engine".

The data is from 2007 & a '92 Geo Metro - so I'd guess you could shave (quite) a bit off that 7 for 2013.

One last thought on the CA study - so the extra wear and tear is only $10/yr - great - fine - that'll console me when the starter fails down town mid rush hour.

 

I saw that CA Energy Commission report too - and while it has some food for thought it is real short on solid bankable facts.

One last thought on the CA study - so the extra wear and tear is only $10/yr - great - fine - that'll console me when the starter fails down town mid rush hour.

You seem to have waded through the thread and come up with the same thoughts as myself. Much depends on the amount of fuel used at idle, and we have gone some way to nailing this. It's obvious to me that idling consumption is much less than the best figure that you could achieve when actually driving along, and some of the quoted figures are at odds with that.

I've always worried about the engine failing to start after unnecessary stops, and my advice to members of the family has been NEVER to turn off the engine in traffic. About the only time that our cars idle for any length of time is at roadworks, where you might sit for 10 minutes or so. Mostly you need the A/C running, so there's no question of killing the engine. A flat battery or failed starter isn't a good thing in remote country.

 

I believe the whole premise behind ISG is to cut down on emission gas and fuel consumption at idle. Consumption at idle for more than 10 minutes would only use less than one ten of a gallon of gas which is almost nothing. Now emission gas stops altogether. No emissions helps the environment, air we breathe and global warming . This is the good. Wear and tear because of ISG puts undue maintenance on the vehicle and is not an even trade for the technology. Not saying ISG is bad just saying it needs to be refined to have a benefit for the environment. It's a little embarrassing when at a stop the vehicle has to start up again and the guy/gal in the car next to you looks at you funny. Like, is something wrong with your new Kia!

 

Whoa Nellie! lets not get on the Global Warming bandwagon here - whilst I agree w/ you - & applaud Mr Kia's step in the right direction - let's talk about the specifics of the Rio's ISG (today), not the bigger world atmospheric picture (tomorrow).

Yea, yea - I hear you, there'll be no tomorrow unless WE .. etc..etc.. And again I agree - but perhaps by voicing our concerns specifically on Kia's ISG we can influence Ford/GM/Toyota/Nissan/etc.. when they get around to greening their internal combustion engines? (excuse my ignorance - but apart from hybrids are there any other vehicles with ISG?)

However - I suspect it will be the salesmen & $$, not the environmentalists, that drive the issue - so that takes us back to the fundamental question - that each driver needs to answer "how long do I sit here at idle - or should I turn it off and save $$/atmosphere" and from there "does the Rio's ISG answer that for me?"

Right now I think the Kia ISG is missing one input sensor - it's very sensitive, it's very situation aware - it's the nut holding the steering wheel.

 

Global warming is a concern.... look at the last ice age.. its all because T-rex just had to drive a hummer........ jerk dinosaurs...