Picture this:

You've just bought a new Kia and "disposed of" your old car. Perhaps sold it or perhaps scrapped it. You've got peace of mind for 7 years, though. No problem, right?

What engine?

Ten years ago I had similar experience with Skoda and swore I will never buy Skoda again in my life.

 

I cannot state which engine, nor exact details because it would reveal my identity. Sorry.
The relevant parts of the post are:
1) Don't expect your warranty to mean you have uninterrupted use of a car.
2) Warranty claims will cost you money, indirectly.
3) Kia hold all the cards. Once they have your money they can be as reasonable or unreasonable as they please, within their own rules.

GET A COPY OF THE WARRANTY TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE BUYING!
YOU WILL SEE THAT I AM TELLING THE TRUTH.

Ask your dealer what will happen if Kia can't decide what the fault is.

Make sure you get full details of the warranty, folks. Even for items which are "covered", bear in mind that you can be without a car.

Nice.

Thanks, Kia.

CaveatEmptor

 

had problems with peugeot after buying new car and ford in the past about warrenty.
will see how i get on with my air con on monday,he has already told me over phone as long as it does not need re-filling (which it does not) or no stone has gone through radiator (no stone-damage) covered under warrenty

 

Hi Charlee,
Some time ago I too was a happy Kia customer, but no more.
I hope you get your aircon sorted. At least aircon is a fairly small and inesxpensive item (at least to Kia) so hopefully it will get fixed.
We all accept that if a stone has gone through it then it's hardly Kia's fault.
We're all reasonable adults.
We all expect fair wear and tear.
However, when the car has a faulty engine and your choices are:
* Walk (but keep paying for the car),
* Drive the (potentially dangerous) car, but keep aking it back o the dealer, which has cost me 3 days' pay and £120 in fuel already or
* Reject the car under the sale of goods act, what choice does one have?

Imagine if you were sold a car with the condition that Kia could, on dates of their choice, force you to lose a day's pay, wait in a showroom for 4 hours and charge you £10 for the privilege, would you have bought the car? No! But that's what the "warranty" is costing me right now.

Disgusted. And vocal on the subject.

 

Hi CaveatEmptor,

first of all, welcome to the forum!

Having read your post, except that I see that you are clearly pissed off, I realised I still don't know what model you drive, where are you located, which dealer is giving you the trouble nor what precisely is wrong with your car.

Please fill your profile and be free to post more info about your problem here and/or give search a shot. You might come up with someone having the same problem as you and maybe with someone having a solution.

I would also consider getting the car to another dealer for them to take a look - unless there's only 1 in your place. Not all of them are competent enough.

 

Being careful what I say, I have a fault which is not new to Kia. It is simply not publicised.

However, it matters not what vehicle I drive, the facts here are true. If your car is faulty but Kia "cannot" determine what the fault is, you are very likely to be without a car.

Yes, I am unhappy, which is what prompted me to publish this factual information. I have bitten my tongue up until now for reasons of courtesy and professionalism, which has been shown by me but not by Kia.

I wish some other owner had told ME this information before I got involved with Kia.

If you (or anybody else) can contest the fact that you will are not entitled to a car, even if yours is demonstrably faulty, by Kia unless they choose to accept that they know what the fault is then please speak up.

I know that this is true because I have had this experience from the dealer and from Kia who stated it to me even though I explained that my car was new and I have to get children to school and then myself to work.

They simply said they "can't" provide a replacement car. Company policy, eh?

There's no law I know of saying they "can't" provide a replacement for their faulty products - they simply choose not to. Well, thanks Kia.

 

CaveatEmptor. Its clear that you are not happy with Kia and nor would I be in the same circumstances. If the dealers technicians have experienced the problem themselves but the diagnostics machine has not, then there is still something wrong and Kia should fix it. I know they may argue they don't know what to fix, but then they will just have to try different things until they find out.

Have Kia customer relations said the same thing? If so I would suggest you send them a copy of posting you have made on here and tell them you will be sending it, or something very similar to your local newspaper for starters. If you have one of those freebie ones they are desperate for things to print, although not so if Kia advertise in it.

Be very careful with the wording or Kia may take you to court.

How I would manage with the problem I do not know? I don't have a mobility car where a I think a replacement is part of the contract, but I cant get around without a car, that's why I have a maintenance contract that includes collection and return of my car. (But that servicing not warranty)

I don't know where you are? But for all those reading this a mobility car is one partially financed by a government scheme to improve mobility for those who are limited in this way. It can be a car provided by a dealer under the mobility scheme, or money to pay for taxi and private hire cars, whatever is suitable for the less mobile person.

 

Hi Eric,
As stated above (perhaps while you were typing, so no insult intended) I am pointing out a scenario.
The facts are those as stated to me by Kia. No car unless they know (and state to you) what is wrong.
Please don't think I habitually publish this sort of information - I have been reasonable for over a month now, but I feel that with Kia it's all "take" and no "give".
It doesn't matter what's reasonable - unless they agree what's wrong with your car AND the parts are not in stock you are without a car. Immoral? Perhaps, but true.
I'm not sure what a mobility scheme is (same as motability?) but that is not my situation. I am sure you are deserving of a reliable vehicle, but so am I.
For Kia to leave a customer without a car when a brand new (or even within warranty) car is faulty is scandalous, in my opinion.

Imagine another manufacturer -any one you like - which makes a product with a fault, but can't work out what's wrong and expects you to do without the product. I bet you can't. A toaster, a TV set, any food product, a piece of safety equipment (which arguably a car is, from a liability point of view), anything you like. All would IMMEDIATELY fix the problem and / or give you your money back.
Even DFS loan you a sofa if yours is faulty, so you don't have to sit on the floor, FFS.
But Kia... no. You're on foot.
Incredible.

 

So many people posted whist I was writing mine, some of my points maybe irrelevant. Just show how many people read this forum and respond when they think its justified.

 

Sorry to hear of your problems mate certainly something to think about,I have bought several new Kia cars localy and the 2 dealers I have used have both been very helpful when any of the cars developed problems although only minor and courtesy cars have always been offered,hope you get your problem resolved quickly

 

Hi Dave,
My dealer is (I think) trying their best to be helpful.
The problem is that the car is faulty but neither the dealer nor Kia knows what's wrong.
One the one hand, my contract of sale is with the dealer and they need to get it sorted, and give me a car, like I have paid for. But on the other hand, Kia is responsible and is the only one authorised to approve repairs. Without approval from Kia and no repair gets done.
I sympathise (to a certain extent) with the dealer - they can't have an infinite supply of courtesy cars. That said, the dealer is responsible, as my contract of purchase is with them.
Kia must play some part in this though, as they control the actions of the dealer.

However, none of that matters while I'm walking to work in the f***ing rain.

There's an old saying: "It's like fleas arguing over who owns the dog."
The parable is that whoever's fault it is, bear in mind that it's YOU, the PAYING CUSTOMER who ends up walking in the rain. Not the salesman, not the technician, not the Kia exec.

I'm not being unfair or untruthful. Kia have flatly refused to give me a car, even though they know mine is faulty, based on the fact that they don't know what the fault is.

 

being careful what you say,you have a fault which is not new to kia,it is simply not publicised,just tell us, or are you worried about being bumped off..
:lol:

i think i can reveal who you are,is you surname bond:lol:

 

Nice, but sorry - I'm in no mood...

 

No manufacturer claims to provide you a replacement car while yours being repaired. Usually dealers provide that as goodwill gesture (and often they can convince manufacturer's to reimburse it under warranty repair).

You still did not disclose what is the problem with your car!

Did you speak with Kia customer service? What did they say? If there is any problem with your car, Kia MUST fix it. Did you try with a different dealer?

 

I did not state my model or exact fault. This was intentional. The fact is that having paid for a new car you are not guaranteed uninterrupted use of a car.

Yes, Kia MUST fix, but they can take as long as they like and do not have to lend you a car in the meantime. This is what some prospective purchasers might find surprising. I had rather hoped for a little more common sense and customer service. I got quoted rules and company policy.
I now know where we stand.
I'm extraordinarily disappointed.

 

I would definitely try another garage. Those guys are obviously not competent enough nor willing to actually resolve the problem.

There is a number of cases where one dealer gave hard time to customers, while the other dealer fixed the problem no questions asked.

Go to another dealer. Nothing to loose there.

As for the warranty, at least in my country, I was perfectly aware there is no replacement car while mine is under warranty service, and I was also aware that any gas/time that I loose while I drive the car to dealers is simply my own loss. They don't make it up.

For example, after 2nd service, they didn't fill up my engine coolant to High level, but left it on Low. I phoned them when I noticed, they said "no problem, come by and we'll fill it up for free". But of course they won't buy me fuel for those 30 Kilometers I had to travel back & forth.

I don't know if there's any car brand (at least here) that pays you such expenses (visiting service, etc.)

 

I don't expect reimbursement for routine servicing, or even for the first, or perhaps second visit to the dealer over a fault. But after that - the product is clearly at fault, why should I pay for the privilege of having been sold substandard goods?
My only recourse is to never buy another Kia and to tell everybody I can about my terrible experience - not as a matter of revenge but to save others the same problems, lost sleep and cost that I am experiencing.

As for trying another garage - I think Kia don't know the solution so won't authorise repairs. Another garage would probably be in no different a position.
Thanks for your advice though.

 

If it is a new car and not working properly (and Kia is unable to fix it) then you can reject it under Sale of Goods act.

But it will be helpful if you explain what the exact problem is with the car.

The purpose of this forum is help each other. If we know what the problem is, we can check if anyone else is having the same problem. If several people have similar problem, Kia will be forced to act.

The fact is that having paid for a new car you are not guaranteed uninterrupted use of a car.

Which manufacturer does that? What you are expecting is paying for your consequential losses.

 

If it is a new car and not working properly (and Kia is unable to fix it) then you can reject it under Sale of Goods act.

But it will be helpful if you explain what the exact problem is with the car.

The purpose of this forum is help each other. If we know what the problem is, we can check if anyone else is having the same problem. If several people have similar problem, Kia will be forced to act.



Which manufacturer does that? What you are expecting is paying for your consequential losses.

Re: first comment: I am helping others by explaining the consequences of entering into a contract with Kia. If the car is garbage you have no car.

Re: second comment: Nonsense; I am not expecting Kia to pay consequential losses. I don't expect them to pay my wages while I bring the car to them, but I DO expect to have a car. That's what I paid for. The whole issue here is that you aren't guaranteed the product (i.e. a working car) they sell you.

 

My only recourse is to never buy another Kia and to tell everybody I can about my terrible experience - not as a matter of revenge but to save others the same problems, lost sleep and cost that I am experiencing.

How you can help others if you don't even disclose what's wrong with your car??

 

Sorry - I missed your point in my flurry of trying to respond to everybody who had taken the time to respond to me.
If I identify the fault I will identify myself. When I have a fix or have successfully rejected the car under the sale of goods act I will tell you all about it.
CaveatEmptor.

 

I can only advice you to go to different KIA dealer.
When I had problem with my gearbox and ask my dealer to check it, they said that the gearbox is absolutely fine and it's me who can't change the gears properly

I took it to different dealer, they said that the gearbox IS broken and they will repair it. They couldn't belive that the first garage never notice the fault.
So... don't waste any more of your time, just go somewhere else.

 

I'm with you on this one. I think that CaveatEmptor's problems are more related to the incompetent service garage than with Kia.

 

What you are describing is the situation where KIA only approves servicing of already known faults, with already known sources.

This means, if there is a fault they never thought of, there is no fault. This is simply wrong, and I would threat them with court for this.

If there's something wrong, they need to sort it out, there's no excuse. Even if they don't know what's wrong they need to repair it - that's their risk.
Now all of this is theory - in practice, you depend on them, not the opposite. If they can't fix it, the only thing you can do is try and find some1 more competent.

 

Agreed - you are quite right, in my opinion. They hold the cards because they have had the money. It's not an excuse to say they don't know what's wrong. So what can I do? Discuss with other Kia enthusiasts (as I used to be) and publicise the problem to others, to protect them, or at least educate them as to what can happen.
Now I begind the long batle to reject the car or get a loan car while mine is fixed. But, I NEED A CAR. I paid for one and I'm jolly well going to get one or I'll have my money back.
I am quite a reasonable person - all companies have problems, but Kia are not going about theirs the right way at the moment.

 

i still dont get it why the big secrecy? afraid that Kia will send the marines after you
i had also experienced this "we dont know what to fix so just live with it until we figure it out"...next car most probably not a kia...

 

Come on atti, put two and two together, mate. ;-)
Just keep it to yourself.
CaveatEmptor.

 

where is your car now.
if the first garage cant fix it take it to another,hassle yes but i would just want it fixed.
if it is a known fault why do you care who knows,pm me and i will say it

 

u2 engine fault some at 3000, some 40,000 some inbetween.
will be wearing bullet proof jacket now

 

Yes I did mean Motability earlier, the car is just as important to me as those in the scheme but I don't qualify now too old. As you get older the government expect many of us to have mobility problems, so over 65 you are excluded, its OK if you are imobile before 65 then you can carry on, seems a bit unfair to me.

 

Umm, motability is available to over 65's:

Motability - Prof FAQs

 

He (or she) agrees that there is a fault but until the diagnostics "see" it they can't do anything about it because Kia won't authorise a repair.

This isn't correct. Kia must authorise warranty claims even if the car's ECU doesn't report a fault. Many others are getting repairs. Also many Soul owners have had resprays due to poor paint and excessive stone chipping on lower rear doors and rear wheel arches. That isn't being reported by the car's on-board diagnostics!

I do feel for your predicament. When you buy a new car, you do expect a certain level of service and a courtesy car. However, someone has to pay for that car. Dealers don't get paid enough by the manufacturer to cover the cost of supplying loan cars. They have to build it in to their operating costs and therefore customers paying for services have to pay for this.

I knew the Kia warranty didn't include a courtesy car. I'm quite happy with that as I think it is reasonable. However, I do think that dealers should have in place a hire scheme so you can hire a courtesy car off them at a reasonable rate. You can hire a Ford Ka at our local hire company for £22 per day (including insurance) and they make profit from this. So I can't see why dealerships can't hire their customers a Kia Picanta for £10-£15 per day. After all, it would be sign written and advertising for them too. I would be happy to pay that and have the choice to pay more for a Ceed or more for a Sorento. I know some dealers offer this service already. I once owned a BMW 520 and when that went into the dealers, I had to pay for a courtesy car.

I would also be happier if Kia didn't use dealers for warranty repair. It is too hit and miss and requires the dealers to have a trained workforce which they never seem to achieve. The dealer network is what gives the manufacturer it's reputation and if one delear is offering poor service, it reflects badly on the brand.
I think dealers should just be used for sales and basic services. They should try the central hub idea that I think Daewoo did for a while, where your car gets collected and you are left with a loan car. Your car is then taken to a central hub garage operated by the manufacturer themselves where they stock spares and have highly skilled/trained staff. These staff will then see the same sort of issues all the time and be far better placed for fixing warranty issues quicker and cheaper. You would only need 2 or 3 of these central hubs to cover the whole of the UK. The service level would be far superior for the customer and I can't see that the operating costs for Kia would be higher. If so, put the cost of the cars up by £1,000. We'd pay it!

 

But of course it's like that.
One of preferred tactics is always play helpful to the customer on one end, on the other just don't give a f**ck.
So the customer thinks dealers are helpful where the actual story is quite different. But since they're so helpful customers are afraid to raise voice because that would, in their opinion, make themselves look bad.

Attitude from the moment you walk through dealer's door is a must.
If they appear to be helpful but are still ditching you off, go and find a normal dealer and leave this one to someone more suborn/patient than you are.

 

Few ideas:

1. Sell a car
2. Big fat insurance + rollover (total damage)
3. Burn the ECU
4. PArk it in front of the dealership and write the malfunction description on the windows... let the prospect buyers see what are they buying... I am sure that dealer will beg you to take courtesy car just to remove your car from the parking. You can also call a few newsreporters

etc,etc.....

 

I was in the dealership a while ago; there were two women looking at the same model I have. They saw me and we exchanged "good morning"s. Then they asked me if I was there to order a car and I said that I already had one. One of the women said "Is it OK?". ....... <<I did not reply>>>

They turned round and left the showroom.

 

well im with caveatemptor on this.

now with my experiences this week with a dealer and a rental firm sheds light on a few things.
you probably know my troubles from another post but what i havnt put yet is how we have been treated ourselves.
to cut a very long story short i was ordered, yes ordered by the dealer to leave my wifes hospital bedside (very serious) to get there courtesy car back to them by 5pm and pick up our car even though is hadnt been fixed. now does that sound professional, im thinking not. now i could go on about this dealer and things that have been said, but i wont.

had to pick up a rental car today and they new a little about it as in what car we had and i was shocked to hear what they had to say about kia's customer service. remember this is coming from a rental firm and not a dealer.

personally i feel we have been treated very bad and i am still very angry as this has caused me a lot more stress, but i am binding my time as i am and will be taking this alot further in the not to distant future.
it is a real shame as both me and my wife were very pleased with the car itself to begin with but have lost faith in the dealer at this present time. even the dealer said they were having problems with kia customer support and there technical support too, so what does that say about it all.

and to eric, im sorry about the motabilty only being allowed upto the age of 65 but regarding the car, should it matter how anyone acquires a new car weather it be bought out right or of a scheme that enables people that have mobility problems or other any way, you should still expect a certain level of professionalism from a company like this. You pay for a item and it should be upto the job that it is made for surely.

 

sy278 If youre-read your link its only avaiable to those who qualified before they were 65and I think thats what I said.

 

I had a similar problem with a proton persona the wife had many moons ago.

Car would cut out sometimes or splutter when pulling out from a junction(when it was cold). Took to dealer under warrenty and they say nothing was showing as wrong. So I got it back still having same problem dealer took it in and asked me to leave it with them for a few hours even though I told them it only happened when it was cold starting. So again I got it back sorry we couldnt see the fault. In the end I e-mailed head of Proton UK stating all the hassle we had been having with the car and we bought it because of its warrenty and did I have to wait for my wife to have a serious accident when pulling out of a junction to get it sorted and within 2 days it was taken in and a courtesy car was supplied the car was then returned a week later fixed. Fault was with the electronic disributor. 400 quid part.

So IMO it was the dealer not willing to fix the fault incase they wouldnt get re imbursed and not the warrenty from Proton.

Perhaps you should try similar getting the e-mail address of KIA UK and asking him to get it sorted as you bought the car because of their so-called bumper to bumper warrenty.

PS I pick up my cee'd 2 SW tomorrow all going well

 

Hi mcmav,
Well, actually the dealer was not the point of the post, the point was that until Kia accept that they know what the fault is you don't get a car unless you dealer has one, despite the fact that (on occasion) the car Kia made is faulty. I feel that this is a bit unreasonable - it puts the burden on the dealer for a fault which is not of their making. Yes, the contract of sale is with the dealer but they are "box-shifters". The dealership didn't design the gearbox or apply the paint etc., so on one hand it's unrealistic to hold them responsible, but on the other hand you bought the car from them so that's where the buck must stop.
I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with your (Proton, not Kia) dealer, but glad you managed to get it sorted by being proactive.
I can't go into the details of the fault with my car here, I was simply highlighting the facts of the warranty - it's not unheard of for a customer to buy a brand new car car and be without transport. If that's you you'll feel a huge sense of injustice and resort to warning other prospective customers what they are buying into.
(Though I wish you and Kia all the best with your new car, of course - are you having a diesel or a petrol?)

PS As for "...400 quid part..." that will have been about £8 from the manufacturer to Proton. It won't have been made by Proton themselves, I reckon. I was involved with a project a long time ago making electronic "filters" (a capacitor and resistor) for fuel pumps for Ford, I think - it was a company in Wrexham with 2 employees as the rest had been laid off by the company owner who lived in Monaco and "ran" the business by telephone. The sale cost of (some) automotive components is shocking compared to the retail cost.

 

Most of the parts in the Proton were Mitsubushi. It was apterall a Lancer rebadger with some diff body panels. Again with the Proton warrenty a car was not included in it just the dealer had one.

I'm getting the 1.6 crdi. Just off to pick it up now

 

OK. I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but in the first post you imply the issue is the engine "sputtering" at different times, even though you refuse to confirm this or expand on it.

The thing to remember about diagnostics is that they typically only look for a mechanical / electrical problem from the vehicle's sensors. They don't look for "driver error".

A lady friend of mine had problems recently with a brand new Ford Fiesta that involved a warranty saga very much like yours. That turned out to be a faulty throttle position sensor on the accelerator pedal. The diagnostics didn't find it because they assumed it was just driver input.

 

The specific fault (stuttering engine) was only an example. It was indicative of any non-catastrophic failure of the vehicle but one which leaves you in doubt as to the vehicle's safety or mechanical integrity.

The point of the thread was that your 7 year warranty doesn't mean you have a car. I bought a brand new car and have - so far - been without it for 3 weeks because IT IS FAULTY.

Kia REFUSED to loan me a car while mine is in bits at the dealership - they seemed quite happy for me to be without transport, even though the cause is that the car they made is faulty.

Cee'd: Below par product with warranty which lacks in some areas. (Note: I'm being fair, I didn't say it's a rubbish product; most of it's fine but I've had many faults, some major, some trivial. It's the least satisfactory car I have owned. Equally, I'm not saying that the warranty is worthless - they ARE attempting to repair the car, but don't seem to be able to manage that yet, but it's not an excellent warranty because in the meantime Kia drop back to quoting small print and leaving me on foot.)
After a lot of wrangling the dealership has provided me with a car (but of course not up to the standard of what the Cee'd should have been) and I had to become very vocal to retain that beyond the first week.

This was the point of the post; if you buy a brand new car with a 7 year warranty and the following day you take it back to the dealer because IT IS FAULTY you are unlikely (putting it mildly) to get a replacement car from Kia Motors (UK) and you may or may not get one from your dealer, it all depends how your dealer is set up. It is very likely that you will be without transport.