Kia Forum banner

Code P0350 and then no spark

7.4K views 11 replies 2 participants last post by  leo42.2875  
#1 · (Edited)
For a while now my 2004 Sorento EX has been showing a code that indicated random misfires on cylinders 1,3 & 5. Since it was just the odd numbered cylinders I decided to replace the wire set, and the spark plugs too. The spark plugs already in the car were Autolite AP3924 so I used the same ones again, but the Platinum level. The coil packs on cylinders 4 & 6 were replaced 12 months ago. I did the work yesterday and while the engine started easily enough it idled slower than usual and during the test drive the engine was rough and lacked power. It reported a P0350 code. (Ignition Coil Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction).

Thinking that one of the coil packs might not be firing I turned the engine off once I got home and unplugged the 3-wire lead to the coil pack that I had not replaced 12 months ago (#2). If the engine ran the same, I would know that the old #2 coil had gone bad. The car started with difficulty, ran badly for maybe 10 seconds, and then shut down. Since then the engine will not start, even after plugging the #2 coil pack back in.

1. There is no spark (I tested it by removing spark plug #1, putting it back in its boot and grounding the plug while the engine was cranked)
2. I verified that the ING1, ING2, ECU, and Motor fuses were all good.
3. I verified that the fuel pump is working. A good snort of starting spray in the intake also produced no combustion.
4. I discovered that one of the 3 wires in the connector for #6 coil-pack had pushed back out of the plug (the red wire) and was thus not connected. This was probably what caused the rough performance to start with. I corrected this and all 3 wires are now firmly in place.
5. Following some advice I found on the internet about P0350 codes, I disconnected the battery for several hours to reset the ECU in case it had 'learned something bad'.
6. Power and ground to the coil-packs has been verified.

Why do I have no spark?
What else can I look at?
 
#4 · (Edited)
The only OBDII code displayed before I reset the ECU was P0350. Before I replaced the spark plugs and wires there was no P0350 error but there were some that indicated random misfires on cylinders 1, 3 & 5.

I really haven't changed that much. Just the spark plugs and ignition wires. After the replacement a single wire to one of the coil packs didn't get connected well and I ran the engine with a coil pack disconnected.

What is a 'health check'?
 
#5 ·
Update... I have procured a clever little oscilloscope and have been able to determine that the coil packs are each receiving a trigger pulse train from the ECU but I still get no spark.
I check for spark by removing a spark plug, putting it back in its boot, grounding the threads against the block and watching for a spark in the gap while someone cranks the engine for me.

The pulses peak at 6VDC and I wonder if that is correct.

Image
Image

This was obtained by removing the sockets from the coil pack plug, stabbing them back onto the coil pack's pins and clipping a lead to the trigger terminal.
The signal looked the same when measured at the ECU (ie no voltage drop).
 
#7 ·
Correct. Control pulses, but no spark. I verified 12V power, but the ground is doing something odd. As you can see in the photo, I have hooked one lead of my multimeter to the ground lead of cylinder 2's COP (and have verified that it is not touching the other 2 leads) and the other lead to the battery's negative post. The other two COPs have been disconnected. With everything off, it reads 3Ω. When I turn the key to Run it reads ~350Ω. As I crank the engine it reads 6MΩ. After I attempt to start the engine, but with the key still in the Run position, it reads ~1MΩ. When I turn the key off it drops to 70Ω until the mail relay clicks off, at which point it returns to 3Ω again.

I recognize that those crazy high resistances are likely the cause of the lack of spark. Now I need to figure out what is causing the crazy high resistance.

The ECM is now reporting a P1631. That error can be associated with CAN bus communication issues so maybe the crazy ground is messing with the CAN bus too.

While the key is in the Run position, the tach, which is usually inoperative, starts bouncing around like crazy... not in a discernable pattern but in a crazy random way.

Image
 
#8 ·
I would like you to confirm the 12vdc, use an incandescent test light.
Image

Circuits (unloaded) may show voltage, but incapable of supporting power (amps).

Next confirm the ground with the light, from battery (+) to COP ground (-), do not perform these tests without the load (light).

I suspect you have a bad connection on one of these circuits.
 
#9 ·
Ok. I'll try the light tomorrow.

I looked at the schematic and noticed that the ground lines from the COPs go through a connector and then go directly to ground on the plate that holds the ECU under the passenger side floorboard. I checked the resistance between the COP ground and the ECU plate and it was 2Ω. Cool.

Image


I attached the positive lead of my meter to the big grounding line bolt on the back of the intake manifold and the negative lead to the negative post of the battery. It was also 2Ω. Cool.

Here's the kicker tho: when I turned the key to the Run position, the resistance shot up to ~200Ω. When I cranked the engine the resistance went to ~8MΩ. When I stopped cranking the resistance dropped to ~600MΩ and when I turned the key to Off the reading dropped back to 2Ω after the main and fan relays opened. The resistance between engine ground and the negative battery post would change depending on the position of the key. Shouldn't the resistance between the engine and the negative battery post always be something like 2Ω? I mean, if there is 8MΩ resistance between the engine ground and the battery ground wouldn't that functionally be an open circuit? What could cause such behavior?
 
#11 ·
Issue solved. It was the ignition failure sensor (IFS).

I noticed that the 12V supply to the COPs is entirely supplied through the IFS. As you indicated, when under load while cranking, the voltage coming out of the IFS to the COPs dropped to 7V. When I disconnected it and fed the COPs directly from the battery, I got spark. So I unplugged the IFS and bypassed it by connecting together sockets 1 (power to IFS) & 2 (power out to COPS) of the harness so that the COPs would get their 12V directly from the power supply line for the IFS.

The Sorento now starts and runs and my bypass will work until the new IFS gets here in a couple of weeks.