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I'm looking at buying a year or two old carnival in australia. I'm being scared off by some reports of problems with their engines, the sleeves in particular plus reports of cd player problems and other peripheral problems. Does anyone know the lowdown on their engines....??
 

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I haven't heard of any problems with the engine and I have an 04 Sedona but I am getting a new engine in my 04 Amanti due to piston slap but according to the Technician this is the 1st such problem he has seen.

The 3.5L engine is a work horse for Kia/Hyundai in many cars, truck and vans already so it should be good.
 

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Hi,

Do *not* buy the car. Repeat do *not* buy it.

The engine's (2.5l DOHC) bad reputation is well deserved. It is unclear whether the true problem is head gasket or piston sleeve .... but regardless they eat engines. Ours (1999 build) went at 50,000Km and we needed a new *long* (not short) engine. If you poll the service departments of KIA dealers you will find MANY MANY stories of Carnivals with blown-up engines. I know at least one Australian dealer who has them queued up in their parking lot waiting for new engines.

There are several other Achilles' heels to these vehicles (all a result of poor quality control). Clutch is one prime example. As I write this I have the transmission out of ours with its *second* failure on one year ... and that is after(!) the long engine.

So don't buy it!!!
 

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Yes, I posted a problem with the engine on this website and on the "CARSURVEY" website. I raised both issues. Refer to:
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_68164.html
http://www.kia-forums.com/t742-engine.htm
I hope this helps.
PLUS
I received my vehicle back after three months at the dealers in Townsville. I did have a replacement vehicle.

Prior to purchase contact KIA Australia and ask if your engine was repaired. One would think it may have been. Check engine number against handbook if possible.
If it hasn't been repaired, my advice don't touch it. All engines have the same problem.

:)
 

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Originally posted by supermac20@Nov 19 2004, 03:10 PM
I'm looking at buying a year or two old carnival in australia. I'm being scared off by some reports of problems with their engines, the sleeves in particular plus reports of cd player problems and other peripheral problems. Does anyone know the lowdown on their engines....??

I've heard that the problems with the head/sleeves was fixed in the Series 3 engine (2002/2003 model?), but I don't know about the side door rollers and other periphials mentioned by others
 

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Only signed up to post this one little bit of info :p

Once upon a time i was a mechanic for a major ford dealership, at the time when it first started happening, nobody knew what the hell the problem was, ford here have control of kia (they do all the repairs inhouse) and when the problem was found, they issued a bulletin on the dealers network. The bulletin listed that they found the problem with the failing gaskets, but they actually listed the reason as an issue of the sleeves themselves and not actually the head or anything else. Now, this is only what we were told, apparently the method they used when putting the engines together at the factory was to install the sleeves (as you know the engines are sleeved) after they had been resurfaced on a flat surface. This is to say that they were resurfaced to make sure they were flat and of equal length before they were placed into the blocks. They should have been done while installed to maintain perfection down to thousandths of an inch. Apparently because it wasnt done when in the engines, this lead to the imperfections in sizes between sleeves, they werent all perfectly flat or level and they werent maintaining a correct seal. The reason given seemed to back up the experience that not all vehicles that were fitted with the engines were failing. To begin with, the gaskets can take up the slight differences between cylinders, but over time they squish even futher which is what leads to failure.

As everybody knows it was standard practice to replace the engines as short motors, they came fitted on pallets as short motors (new bottom ends, blocks and pistons). We had to swap the heads over, fit all the ancillaries and new belts.

The standard practice when customers presented with signs of power loss (among other things), if oil wasnt present (which for these engines, was a big sign), was to compression test the engine while warm to see if cylinder pressures were down. If so we just had to present the findings to management and i believe it was escalated and a decision was made as to wether the engine was replaced or returned to service.

Thats just my experience in working on these vehicles anyway :)

Interesting little point, due to the nature of the cars, the gearbox was removed, the entire front subframe was unbolted, supported on stands, then the body and chassis of the car was lifted up in the air while on the hoist. It was far easier to work on them with the entire front end sitting there on stands than to try and remove the engine with any other method. It was just a simple task of getting a couple of guys either side to hold the block, then unbolt it and pull it out of the subframe to replace it. 2 people could easily carry them.
 

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Having just bought one a month ago (2005(?) model, built October 2004), I have travelled 2,500k and I'm very impressed...so far. But what worries me is the 15,000k service intervals! I'll be changing my oil and filter every 10,000k.

In the "Customer Care" suppliment that came with the car, it says (under "Our Customer Care Plan"): To be part of the plan you must own a Kia commercial vehicle, or a Kia Carnival or Sorento purchased after 1 June 2003. If you do, you will be covered for three years from the date of first registration entitiling you yo receive free, 24 hour emergency roadside assistance and access to the Kia courtesy vehicle programme."
So, buy the latest model you can, check the service booklet (and ring the Service Department just to make sure) and get it checked by a reputable mechanic.
As it says, if it's built after June 2003, it's under warranty for three years after the first registration.

As for the CD player(CDP), it's the same model as the Rio (ZCD-3501AK)...a friend of mine had the whole unit replaced 3 times. Apparently, when you turn off the car, the CDP ejects the disc and then reloads it. There is the problem...if you don't take the CD out of the tray, it can load and get stuck in the CDP. He was told by the Dealer that when you turn off the car and the disc ejects, grab it before it reloads.
 

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GRRR well im back at square one again!

*if you are lost as to what im talking about you can see my original postings under "kia carnival & sedona" then "head gasket"

Kia now claim that my engine has already been replaced by the previous owner at 112,904km and say that there's no way a second engine would fail .... even though this apparent new engine has now only done 26,000km.

But just a few hours ago i managed to track down and speak to the previous owner who definately had the car before and after the time Kia rekon the engine was replaced .... and he has assured me that NO work was done on the engine at all, let alone getting replaced. He has agreed to write me a statement with those facts.

Don't know why Kia would blatently lie about that?? suppose just to try and get rid of me?

Many mechanics have told me (after doing their tests) that there is nothing wrong with the head gasket .... that it is the sleeves causing the problem. Kia are denying that there is any problems with the sleeves.

Does anyone know any different? Or know any way of proving that the faults in their engines are not just head gaskets but also the sleeves??

MADHATTER ...... after seeing your post i wonder i you have anything in writing or a copy of that bulletin? THat would help me so much!

cheers
 

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I have posted this in the head gasket thread that i was originally posting in.... However wanted to put a copy in here for MADHATTER to reply to ;)

well now there's more to the story.....

Got ahold of the original owner/company ORIX (who had it from day one as a lease vehicle) this morning. He went through all the dates etc of service history with me. Was very helpfull actually.

KIA told me > WHOLE Engine replaced at 112,904km on 12th nov 2002. (which i know is not true after speaking to the owner who had it at this time).
ORIX told me > they sent it off and had a short engine put in at 83,000km on 27th sept 2002.

Find it a little weird that Kia gave me completely different dates and km's. I'm sure the company who sent it off to be done would know when it was done and has no reason to lie about it.

So now im trying to decided how to get Kia to admit to this sleeve problem...........

>>it's only done approx 55,000km since short engine was put in.

How do i prove there is a problem with the sleeves due to Kia apprantly resurfacing them on a flat surface before putting in the engine, when its supposed to be resurfaced after already installed in the engine????
5 mechanics have told me.......that if the engine was assembled correctly at the Kia factory that the sleeves should not give me any problems for approx 10yrs. Since the short engine was installed it's only been 2 1/2 years.

Do i have to go to the extreme of having my engine pulled apart so the sleeves can be measured? If so does anyone here know what the exact correct length of all 6 sleeves should be?
I hope i don't have to go to that extreme as Kia have advised me that they wont cover the cost of doing that even if it proves it's them at fault.
 

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OK. We have an '05 Carnival (2.5 V6, manual) bought new & so far we're very happy with it. The liner problem is supposed to have been fixed "from a certain date" - the nearest I can track down on that is '04/'05. The ONLY problems we've had so far have been the CD player, which jammed & was replaced, & the DVD player which has had the screen replaced twice & the whole unit replaced the 3rd time. Interestingly, the CD's box is marked Carnival/Rio but they ARE different units (unless the new Rio has the Carni's stereo) - how do I know? 'Cause "my" car is a little red Rio! :) (See Photo!).
 

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G'day Esses
They claim to have fixed the liner problems in the 02 model,though i have heard of the odd 02 & 03 models having this problem.As ours is a 2000 model we were destined for trouble,it was just a matter of time.The difference is unbelievable compared to the old one before it shat itself.It has a heap more power.Cheers Len
 

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Yeah, Len. I've heard of numerous '03 models spitting their liners, unfortunately. My Supervisor's Carni. amongst them! As for power, ours has just been getting better as it loosens up (12 500 km now) both in power & economy. It seems to be that the auto models have more liner probs. Maybe they get thrashed more?
 

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Hi Esses
Yeah your probably right there,though ours is a manual,we consider ourselves lucky to have got 106k out of ours before it died.Cheers Len
 

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Well i rang Kia yet again and asked them about the assembly of their Short Engines.
Asked if they still resurface the sleeves on a flat surface and then fit into the engine?? as i've read that they are supposed to be fitted to the engine first and then resurfaced.

Kia would not give me an answer! But told me that they assure me 100% that the gasket and sleeve problem were corrected in the short engines. I asked for that in writing and was told NO, asked to speak to his manager and was told NO! I guess if the won't put it in writing it's because they are really not 100% and don't want to be liable for it! That's what the Office of Business and Consumer Affairs rekon too!
My short engine may have been put in the car in Sept 2002 but guess it's possible that it could have been assembled way before that....before they fixed the problems?

Anyhow im not giving up, gonna keep fighting!! Office of Business and Consumer Affairs have advised me to put it in writing to Kia giving them 5-10 days to respond and then take further court action is needed.

Cheers
 

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Hey, keep on keepin' on! Keep us posted also as precident counts in court most everywhere :thumbsup:
 

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sorry annsheree, i left the dealership before i had posted the reply, dont have access to the bulletin system anymore so i cant get you a copy. :(

What prompted me to post the above was because a person on irc i have chatted to for a number of years owned one and went through this. He went to another mechanic first though and they couldnt find the overheating issues even after replacing a whole bunch of things (radiators, thermostats, waterpumps, hoses, fans, etc). When taken back to the dealership more things were replaced, even while i kept telling him its definately a sleeve issue as per before. Spent over $2000 in repairs to the thing over the course of a year only to then have them refuse to replace the engine :eek:

In the end, they did indeed come to the party and the engine was due to be replaced, but that was a whole lot of effort to even get that far.

Only way you could get a copy of it is for someone within the network (mechanic, service advisor, parts guy, etc) to log on and get the information. Thats not exactly a simple thing to ask for as i dont know too many people who would hand out company information like that -_-
 

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make the kids walk to school instead and if you really need a van for transporting stuff other than people buy a sprinter van or something like that. what you get cheaper in price for the kia you pay for in every other aspect. eg 17K instead of 20K but I have to spend more per service more regularly, and the type of thing that is good in other other cars doesn't exist in the kia, they are trying hard and improving but when they are improved they will cost as much as the normal cars to buy instead.

btw... as far as i am aware it was the 2.5 v6 ROVER engine which was shite. which is perhaps why the whole company closed down. I havn't heard many problems from the diesel engine (apart fromt the bad mpg you get for your dollar)
 
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