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Discussion Starter #1
My 03 spectra stalled at a stop sign. Wouldn't start after that. Sounded like the starter was not engaging. Pulled it out and had it tested. Tested good.

Could it be my timing belt. 197000 miles it has never been changed. I took the top timing belt cover off and found a small piece of the belt that goes in between the teeth on the gear. Tried to pull on the belt but it is tight. If it is broke wouldn't I be able to pull it out?
Is this an interference motor. I called the dealer and they said it definetly was. How can I check to see if it is in fact the belt and if there is any damage to the engine. If the engine is damaged I don't want to sink money into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I got the timing belt off and it was pretty much stripped of any ridges on the bottom crankshaft gear. Should I be able to turn the camshaft gears by hand? I tried to move them and they are tight.
I sent an email to Kia motors and they called me today and said it is an interference motor. I just want to be sure there is no damage before I spend money on trying to fix it.
Any help would be very appreciated.
 

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Replied in a pm to jlahood
Looks like it's gone..
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I can turn the crankshaft by hand. The sparkplugs were fine. The pistons move. My question is should I be able to turn the to camshaft gears at the top of the motor by hand.
 

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I am replying to you via pm...
Really that's why we should be doing it here...
Lot's of confusion for you/I/others and the info passed is not shown here for others to learn by.
I may compress the pms (if OK by you) and post them here for others to "see" and understand what's going down...
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sounds good. Sorry to you and all. That was my mistake. I will post here from now on.
Thanks for all your help.
 

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Here's what's been going on behind the scene for you avid readers...
Quote
"
jlahood said:
Dave,
I am reaching out to you as you are the only one who has responded to my
original posting.
I got the timing belt off and the belt was stripped/bald of any ridges on the
bottom crankshaft gear. Should I be able to turn the camshaft gears by hand? I
tried to move them and they are tight.
I sent an email to Kia motors and they called me today and said it is an
interference motor. I just want to be sure there is no damage before I spend
money on trying to fix it.
Any help would be very appreciated.


DavesSpectra said:
jlahood...
You said "I got the timing belt off and the belt was stripped/bald of any ridges
on the bottom crankshaft gear. Should I be able to turn the camshaft gears by
hand? I tried to move them and they are tight."
OUCH!!!
You should be able to move the crank (by had) to a very limited degree (one
maybe two teeth)..Even that is dangerous..
The very first thing I'd do is pull the spark plugs and see if the center
electrode is damaged on any of them.. Usually when the major damage happens the
valves snap off and hit the plugs and smash the electrodes. The valves can also
go through the top of the pistons.

Do the timing marks line up on the cam and crank pulleys? ( I doubt it BTW).
You post of the starter motor not being able to move the engine is another BAD
sign.

To sum it up
1 Timing belt stripped of teeth
2 crank won't turn
3 starter can't turn over the engine
4 KIA says it's an interference type engine

Looks like you will be looking for another car soon... or an engine at least..
With 186k miles on it...It served you well...It would have gone longer "if" you
had replaced the TB... I see this type of post here all the time...

You can do a car autopsy—(also known as a post-mortem examination). Remove the
head and confirm the damage.
Sorry...
Dave


jlahood said:
Dave,
Let me correct myself. The starter turns the motor over. I can turn the
crankshaft by hand. I pulled the plugs and the were fine.

My question is should I be able to turn the 2 camshaft gears at the top of the
motor by hand.

The timing marks are very close to
being right on. If they were one tooth over they would line up with the
alignment marks.
I also looked in the spark plug hole and didn't see any damage. Turned the crank
and the pistons move.
why is it dangerous to move the crank by hand?
Thanks for your help.:D


Good Morning!
I just got up (retired) and checked the mail.
Now for the answers..
What you say sounds good... BUT..
Withe the valves open on ANY of the 4 cylinders...your turning the crank
(pulley) is raising the pistons one by one to top dead center (TDC). A truley
"interference" type engine WILL eventually find the WRONG sequence and smash the
open valves with that piston...
The cam shaft pulley(s) directly drive the valves and they are spring loaded (to
force them closed)..so you will have some restriction on cam movement and the
turning of the cam pulley...If you have NO movement of the cam pulley...pull the
head cover and see WHY..
I have two Spectras (06 mine/07 wifes) and the 2.0L (beta version) has one cam
pulley (exhaust valves) that on the other end drives the intake cam by/via a
drive chain... Some earlier KIA engines (sportage) have both cams
(intake/exhaust) driven by the TB and the arrangement looks like Micky Mouse's
ears and have NO timing chain on the other end... I have not worked on the pre
2004.5 year 1.8L engine but I believe they have the single pulley driven by the
TB and the chain on the other end. I just want you to understand the layouts.

You may have "top end" (head) problems such as frozen cam bearings/ damaged
chain drive/etc causing the cam pulley not to turn. That's why pulling the head
cover will probably be needed to "see" the problem(s).. This would also make
sense of the teeth being chewed off of the bottom side of the TB. (crank turning
but cam not).
Let me know what you find...
Dave

jlahood said:
Dave,
Thanks for the help and for answering so quickly. I did move both cams just a small bit to line them up with the timing marks. I am going to buy a belt kit and water pump tomorrow and install it. I will let you know if the timing marks are still in place after I rotate the engine. Your posts were very clear and were in order. Thanks again. I have my fingers crossed."
19:30 friday Dec 97,2012
Unquote


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #9
After further inspection my camshaft timing marks are at about the nine oclock position. Can I rotate them with a wrench to the correct position?
I am at a stand still until I get an answer.
 

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I would say yes...Pull the plugs (to reduce friction from compression). Just take it slow/easy and if you encounter any heavy resistance...investigate why.
Taking it easy means you won't bend valves "if" things are way out of sync.
You might "push" a piston down with the valve but probably won't damage anything at that slow a pace.
You can also put a 1/4" wood dowel rod in #1 cylinder and "see" (the dowel rod will move up to the highest point) when the crank is TDC (top dead center) and the timing marks match up on the crank.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Got everything put back together. I matched up the timing marks. Tried to start it. All it does is turn over. Doesn't fire at all.
 

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Now that you got it back together can you do a compression check on all 4 cylinders?
(looking for damaged/bent valves)
This is the BIGGY...No compression the timing is still off OR you may have internal damage. If you have compression in al 4 cyls (better than 140psi and within 10psi between cylinders) then I'd start looking for sensor problems.

The ECM will not fire the injectors "if" the cam and crank sensors are not in sync.
Do you have fuel pressure?
Do you have spark?
Will it start with starting fluid?
Awaiting feedback
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #13
First off. I've only done this once before. And it was to change a belt that hadn't broke. So it was easier.
This time I don't know if I did have, or was suppose to have the #1 cylinder at TDC when getting the timing marks lined up and before installing the belt and then try to start it.
It just sounds like it isn't timed right.
I do have spark.
I will look around for a compression tester.
 

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hi jlahood, put a screwdriver in no1 plug hole to find where the piston is in the cylinder, move the crankshaft to get the piston half way down the cylinder and the other three will be the same, turn the camshaft with a wrench, I doult if you can turn it by hand, if it turns freely you may not have bent valves. Line the marks up FIRST on camshaft then line up the crankshaft marks, the only bit due to the plugs are fired by the ECU you dont know if you are sparking on no1 or no 4 ( if you get a bang out of the exhaust when starting, you are on the wrong one )

Note, use gloves to put the timing belt on for sweat could damage the belt and make an early failure

Note, Note next generation of engines will not have a camshaft of timing belt
 

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jlahood, To check roughly if the timing marks are correct once the belt is on. Turn the engine over a few times by hand then line the crankshaft up and if you look from the front of the engine the two camshaft lobes will be up and they will like a "V" sign as given by Mr Churchill
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Derek,
Thanks for your input. Once I get this snow moved I will push it back into the garage (wife wanted her new car in garage) and get back to work.
Once I get the pistons half way down the cylinder should I turn both camshafts to see if they turn freely? If they don't then it is pretty much a lost cause? So with the valve cover off I will be able to see if the cam lobes are in Mr.Churchill's sign standing on the passenger side? Please bear with me as I am not very educated on doing this.
 

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jlahood, Sorry i dont know which is your passenger side, is it left or right looking under the bonnet. Only deal with no1 cylinder and the others will follow, a twin cam engine across the car, look at the timing belt area and the left hand camshaft the lobe will point to the left and the right hand camshaft will point to the right when the marks are lined up.

I know engines but may not know cars Good Luck
 

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jlahood, All along i have been thinking your engine is petrol, if it is get a window and put in no1 plug hole its called a Colortune and you can see the spark in the cylinder, your find a second hand one on the internet
 

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jlahood...
I see you got a new friend in the UK! Good..The more the better!
Yep Derek c it's petrol/gas.
If you can crank it with the new belt on at least you don't have any interference problems right this moment. You still could have broken valves and they may be riding on top of the pistons.. The compression test will tell you a lot.
Watch out for the cheap compression testers at Harbor Freight...They are useless.

You can test for injector firing with a noid set. OR a 12v test light (wire clip on a 12v feed and the tip on the wires to the injector). 2 wires...One wire will not light and the other will flash the light bulb.. The injectors have 12v on one wire when the ignition is ON. The other wire is turned on and off by the ECU/ECM.. This will tell you if the cam and crank sensors are working and in time... The ECM will NOT fire the injectors if they not in sync...

You need
1 Compression (all 4 cylinders)
2 Fuel (injectors/fuel pump/proper cam-crank timing)
3 Spark (at the correct moment)
4 Proper mechanical timing
Any one of these items missing or out of time and the engine won't run.

You got the snow that went north of me (Ohio) we got rain and 50s.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I borrowed a good compression tester. Pulled the plugs on all the cylinders. Started on number one cylinder and turned the crank by hand. No compression in any cylinder.:(
 
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