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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2009 Canadian market Rondo with 16" wheels.

I'm doing the outer tie rods and just need to know the size of the adjustment nut so I can continue the job.

19mm was too small and I tried working it with a pair of vise grips, but it was just digging in and gouging the surface.

Guess I get to buy a new open ended wrench once I know which one to get

Thanks!
 

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2017 Rondo LX 2.0L
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I seem to remember using a 21mm
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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206 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey thanks!

Though that could be awkward for me using imperial sized open end (since the nearest fraction is 13/16" or ~20.64 mm, which is slightly too small.) I might heat up the nut which could expand it ever so slightly and use a 7/8", but that might be wishful thinking.

After I wrote my post, I realized that if all else fails, I can use a crescent. Already preparing for a struggle with a butane jet torch and WD40/PB Blaster.
 

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If you're jam nuts are ever frozen solid and won't budge like mine, you can use an appropriately sized wrench on the flats on the tie rod itself wedged on the LCA or strut, and the 21mm or 15/16" on the jam nut lifted by a floor jack.

This ended up the only way I could get my jam nuts off either side.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It was like you were watching me do it, lol!

I ended up first taking a more sophisticated, gentle approach of heating the nut (with a pathetic little handheld, not a proper propane torch) and spraying some WD40.

I gave it some confined-angle taps with a hammer, and yes, carefully propped a trolley jack underneath for the one side while preventing rotation with another open end wrench.

The driver side was easier, and used a 7/8" on the tie rod end flat/square while the passenger side needed a 15/16" for the same spot. Jam nut was 15/16" for both. (That converts to ~23.8mm, so a 24mm then.)

Yes, the cotter pin added more of a hassle than expected and I think on the new ones I will make a slighter bend on the legs and leave some more space before the rounded eye part.

I should be so lucky to have the car last long enough to deal with them again, lol.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, as my bad luck would have it, the new tie rods didn't fix the play in the toe. I pulled to make sure the inner ones are firm (and glad they are, because that looks more involved than I want.)

Not sure what else it can be. Maybe my diagnosing methodology or observations are flawed.

Also, turns out those flat spots on the tie rod ends form a rectangle, not a square, so it takes a 7/8" wrench after all.
 

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2017 Rondo LX 2.0L
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Have you confirmed there is no play in the wheel bearing
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To the extent that I wiggled top and down 12 and 6 and didn't feel anything. Something tells me I won't be able to determine this from judging by feel, but will have to look...which at this point I've resigned myself to having to take it in because this is my first time dealing with this among all the other car things I've done.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Also, I want it on record that I don't approve of the design choices typically seen with inner tie rods or ball joints, lol. Was watching a ChrisFix video on that and I gotta say, I noped out. There is so much involved and so many maddening obstacles I can anticipate along the way that I will shelve the first-hand experience of that until such a time forces me to.

For a mechanic with all the many implements ready at hand, it's different. Otherwise, trying to assemble all that's needed is daunting.

Elements that have factored into my decision:
Needing special tools (ball joint press, collar adapters for inner tie rods, etc.), having to remove so much stuff just to gain access, dealing with snap rings, chiseling out little pins in awkward locations, dealing with odd size sockets with high torque applications with the axle nut, dealing with multiple rusted fasteners, minding the delicate splines on the axle, removing awkward clamps and substituting them with zipties because the little OEM ones are hard to find (and fit) and hose clamps are too thick, then shimmying boots into place which might have bonded and stuck to the metal. Not to even mention if you buy a nicer brand that you have to install zerk fittings with a grease gun I don't have, etc.

There has to be a better way.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How much ball joint movement should I see when wiggling 3 and 9? Even a bad one shouldn't account for that, right? Would only affect 12 and 6?

I saw the inner tie rod barely move with 3 and 9 wiggling. Maybe a millimeter in and out. That translates to a quarter inch play at the outside rim of the wheel?

I don't know what normal looks like (lol, story of my life) so what are the other variables that would cause this if not the tie rods? I really don't want to do battle with the inner and have it not be that.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I suspected it shouldn't move, but there's no top to bottom play in the wheel. If it's bad, I wouldn't think it would influence side to side movement in that case either.

It will need to get addressed independently of this at some point because the boot is torn. Currently looking up a YT vid to see what's involved with that one.

I got to the inner tie rods and the boot wasn't fighting me to come off and went surprisingly smoothly, but the removal tools (both kinds) are garbage.

There's the one style that's shaped like an oxygen sensor socket and the long adapter piece attaches to the end, and the other kind that has a c-shaped clip that nestles into the wide end of the long piece.

I think the third kind might be best which uses tabs on the sides of the clip and a slot cut into the sides of the long end (some of these lock in place, and that's important.)

The rental/loaner ones are lower quality. The first style slips apart because the adapter must be pulled toward you to engage the flat spots, but then that will disconnect the long end that holds the adapter. The second variety needs either a thicker c-piece or a deeper wide end because the rounded part of the tie rod can't go in far enough, so the c-piece gets pushed out of place. Both styles require getting taped up. Absolute madness.
 

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Ball joints aren’t too bad to do yourself if they’re not absolutely seized into the LCA. I had luck with a tool like the below putting tension on it, and then whacking the LCA with a sledge hammer.
For the inner tie rods, my local parts store (Canadian tire) has a fairly good rental tool. Photo is below.
 

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The ball joint on the previous gen rondos is different. It bolts to the knuckle with 2 bolts, and the stud faces downward and sits in the lower control arm. A castle nut holds the stud into the lower control arm. Look at the ball joint on rockauto, the part is quite different than the one in the video. I can sent some screenshots from the service info tonight or tomorrow.
 

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2009 Kia Rondo 2.4l (Canadian)
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh, nice actually. Yeah, I looked at a vid of an older (2011) one and it's as you described and is the kind I have. Here's a still-frame from that video. Wow, yeah, mine looks a lot easier.

Automotive tire Wood Working animal Gas Bumper
 

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That's the one! When I did mine, the stud on the ball joint was quite stuck in the lower arm and the nut rounded off. But with the tool I posted earlier and a nut extractor it was a relatively easy job!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will use the torch, penetrating fluid, hammer, and nudge back and forth method to minimize that happening.

I have really nothing in the way of power tools, so an impact or air hammer isn't an option. Also don't have a welder, so I won't be able to do cool things like weld a good nut onto a damaged one and try again.

I think that's really the bulk of working on a car is struggling with all the basic fundamental obstacles before getting to the actual core work.
 
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