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Discussion Starter #1
Started the Borrego this morning and while starting it made a strange sound then the fun began sounded like it was running on 4 of its 8 cylinders and was shaking and bucking all the while the check engine lamp was flashing away like a beacon of distress then all of a sudden it just leveled out and everything was fine again. Looks like a trip to the dealer is in order. Funny thing the day before when I started it, it started just fine but let out a HUGE cloud of smoke!
 

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1983 JEEP CHEROKEE WIDETRACK, 1987 FORD MUSTANG ASC/MCLAREN, 2001 DODGE DAKOTA QUAD CAB 4X4
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Definitely Take To Dealer....should Have Stored Codes From Check Engine Light In History...
 

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Memorial Super Moderator
2005 Kia Cerato LD [2L petrol] manual, 1986 Nissan Pulsar hatch
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2,861 Posts
Definately go to the dealer. It sounds like maybe something to do with cam position sensor or similar.
 

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2009 Borrego
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On my old CTS, I lost half my cylinders due to a intermittent ground in the ignition system. It felt like the car was misfiring. If it comes and then mysteriously goes away, my bet is that it is an electrical gremlin. Hard to tell though with modern engine management systems. Good luck.
 

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2009 Borrego
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Maybe it's those HID's you installed? ... hehe just joking.. :)

Sounds bad though, hopefully they'll figure it out quick for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So They blamed it on me :mad:

Dealer said that it happened because the night before when I started the truck just to move to the other side of the driveway I didn't warm it up enough before shutting it off, hence some valve in there somewhere didn't close all the way and allowed raw fuel to leak into the cylinders all night hence flooding out the motor. They said never shut the motor off cold if it didn't run for at least 5 minutes prior. Said there were traces of fuel in the oil also and they changed that too to the tune of $38 ^_^
 

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Memorial Super Moderator
2005 Kia Cerato LD [2L petrol] manual, 1986 Nissan Pulsar hatch
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The dealers reason shouldn't happen as the injectors should close fully when the engine is turned off whether it is hot or cold.
 

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2009 Borrego
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So They blamed it on me :mad:

Dealer said that it happened because the night before when I started the truck just to move to the other side of the driveway I didn't warm it up enough before shutting it off, hence some valve in there somewhere didn't close all the way and allowed raw fuel to leak into the cylinders all night hence flooding out the motor. They said never shut the motor off cold if it didn't run for at least 5 minutes prior. Said there were traces of fuel in the oil also and they changed that too to the tune of $38 ^_^
WTF! Did you tell them you turned it off too quick?? Regardless though really? Does that mean that hundreds of these vehicles could literally fall apart if you run them less then five minutes.... garbage. Next time shrug your shoulders man and tell them to fix it.
 

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2009 Borrego
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The valves are for intake air and exhaust fumes... has nothing to do with the fuel except that they are timed with the fuel injectors. Not sure if I buy their diagnosis, but whatever. Keep you receipts and make notes of who you talked to and what was said. Hopefully it won't happen again.
 

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Sounds like a new dealer should be searched if possible (doubt it). I'd be doing the shoulder shrug too and say "gas in oil? sounds like a design flaw". If it happens to me i'm gonna play completely dumb. How many times do you drive your car for under 5 minutes cold over the life of the vehicle. If its so electronic and smart, it should shut itself off after its properly warmed up.

I gotta say, my V8 doesn't idle completely smooth unless I rev it up around 1000 rpms. I don't mind the rumble (sounds nice and seems normal) but I sorta thought it would be more smooth.

I have also had a few starts where it turned over quite a while until it started, and this was from cold starts.
 

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09 borrego new 03 dodge diesel
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EXV8
Where do you live? I have been a mechanic for half my life and what you just told me may be true for a 65 cockshutt tractor but not even close for the fuel injection system on the borrego, The only valve that "leaks" fuel is the fuel injector! If it is "open" all night it is electronicly controlled and you have a short in your wiring. A flashing Mil is a missfire hence the gas in the oil. I will be more than happy to talk with you and tell you what to say as they feed you this crap. As a mechanic it really pisses me off when I hear these storys
 

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09 borrego new 03 dodge diesel
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As a side note did you tell them of the knocking on start up? It could be a fuel injector issue. It has been seen.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I did, and they said a brief knock is normal on cold starts also..called it piston slap ^_^
 

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14 Kia Sorento (V6 EX AWD), 2013 Nissan Altima SV
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I tend to agree....

Sounds like pure dealership BS to me. I do the same thing a lot (moving cars when the engine is cold) and have never had any problems at all. If the dealership won't help, go over their heads.


EXV8
Where do you live? I have been a mechanic for half my life and what you just told me may be true for a 65 cockshutt tractor but not even close for the fuel injection system on the borrego, The only valve that "leaks" fuel is the fuel injector! If it is "open" all night it is electronicly controlled and you have a short in your wiring. A flashing Mil is a missfire hence the gas in the oil. I will be more than happy to talk with you and tell you what to say as they feed you this crap. As a mechanic it really pisses me off when I hear these storys
 

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2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD; 2016 Kia Forte5 SX 1.6T A/T
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.....They said never shut the motor off cold if it didn't run for at least 5 minutes prior.....
If it happens again, or even if it will never happen again, just ask them - how they move cars on parking lot, from a truck to parking, or from a ship to a truck... and so on and on.
I wonder if THEY let the engine to "warm up" for at least 5 minutes. Bull...

I had started my Rondo couple of times in the night to move it and it NEVER had any issues with starting on the next day. And fuel does NOT leak out from injectors, UNLESS injectors are faulty.
Even more, my old car with petrol engine 1.1 I4 with carburetor had not issues with starting if moved the night before.
 

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2010 SOUL + Auto (B2522),2010 Soul SPORT Limited Edition Stick (B2581)
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The dealers reason shouldn't happen as the injectors should close fully when the engine is turned off whether it is hot or cold.
I agree with you and disagree too. And will not address PLP post as no good will come form that. We all know that. I will not be baited that easy for sure. :amen:

I agree that as stated here it sounds like it is fluff. But then we were not there at the dealer and had the explaination given to us. We are here and getting the translation of what he heard, which yes sounds goofy. And dealer might just have explained it badly too. They do not do that do they? Might be a good idea explained wrong.

I disagree first as two wrongs do not make a right. Start a cold eng and it goes into rich start mode. Tech flooding the eng briefly even on todays uber computor cars. Shut it off too fast before it clears and you have a partly flooded vech. Now start it again in the AM (a pattern that we do not know of) and it does the same temperary floods rich start on top of what was there. Now you have a really flooded eng that is missing till cleared out in a few like it did. Do it often and fouls plugs slightly and makes it easier the next time to not need as much to do more. See where I am going with this. The idea of gas diluted oil (he needed a oil change) plays into this, thou no one but me see's it. And they are not free so he paid $38. But everyone only got hung up on that $38 and the damn leaking valve idea. This was not a one time thing. It has been going on maybe. Frequent late nite moves to the other side of driveway. Nobody has ever heard of high dilute oil catching fire in cyls before? Can we say misfires and random unmetered gas exploding? Even worse in an eng designed to double fire the plugs for emmissions scavageing. Once on power stroke and once on down stroke. Do not know if the 3.8/4.6 is that. But then I do not have to know. Just suggest it as possible here as many are. And blows a hole in your fluff for a explaination theory. And a dead cold 2.0L I4 Rondo is a far cry from a dead cold 4.6L V8 here. Not the least of which are four more COLD cyls getting gas on a hit and run move to the other side of driveway.

I also disagree too as sometimes some engs are just picky about this stuff. Few people these days want to recall or knew about the early Mazda Rotory Eng vechs. The RX2/3/4/Comos/Pickup and the later RX7 and the RX8's. The early ones were bears! if you treated them like this ever. They would flood just as soon look at you. And NOT restart at all till they got new plugs or very well cleaned ones (alot of trouble for $15 worth of plugs) and open plug port cranking of gas out. The early RX7's were bad and got better with EFI but never good. And the RX8's are the best but far from normal on most days. This also if done too many times lead to APEX seals failure due to oil dilution from gas flooding on early vechs and not so early and late RX7's. This was the parent of the unwritten rule of any Pre very late RX7 & RX8 Rotory that gets APEX SEAL failure for LIFE! Gets new eng free. RX8's use a totally different APEX seal system. All this for "I should not have to let it run 5 mins or drive it around block quick and then park it". Think really how long is 5 mins? If the Borrego need this do it. Whom cares what your Toyota Fourunner did or did not do with the 4.0. And by the way moving cars around a lot if you sit and think clearly really does get you 5 mins run time if you do it alot. Nobody moves THAT fast at work lol. By the time you start and move a few and parked them and shut them off they all have run close to or MORE then five mins. And has no bearing on this argument we have here if done only a few (once or twice) times. It is apples and oranges.


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It seems clear that the KIA V8 has some unusual issues. Piston slap, knocking etc. are not normal and need to be fixed! 1st year designs are more problematic but these are serious and need to be addressed. Looks as though the V6 might be less problematic.
 

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It seems clear that the KIA V8 has some unusual issues. Piston slap, knocking etc. are not normal and need to be fixed! 1st year designs are more problematic but these are serious and need to be addressed. Looks as though the V6 might be less problematic.
My 3.5L V6 does not have these. Or the classic valve tapping issue of the 3.5L V6's in the Sorentos. But others here with 2002-2006 3.5L V6 did and do. If the TPS is adjusted right (the oem was,the new one was not and got redone) and I use 5w20 Synth and 89RM gas. I get nothing bad. No slap no knock no taps first thing in AM nor while running all day. Would not assume that if you had half a brain and did not help them not to be. That the 3.3/3.8 in Sorentos and the 3.8/4.6 in Borrego will be just the same. Thou the hit and run move it to the other side of the drive misfire issue is still to be fully sorted out. You might find that yes the 4.6L V8 really is picky about that. And it is a easy and cheap fix. Sometimes weather we like it or not things are owner created issues and easy to deal with. Like stop using 87 and use 89. Use synth oil or live with a slight tick or slap every once in awhile. If it runs like a Diesel or a 1.1 Yugo then that is a new story not being covered here.


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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
It seems clear that the KIA V8 has some unusual issues. Piston slap, knocking etc. are not normal and need to be fixed! 1st year designs are more problematic but these are serious and need to be addressed. Looks as though the V6 might be less problematic.

Piston slap on start up is very normal for most motors made from an alloy other that iron and is not serious.

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Some piston slap due to tolerances may be normal, but when your oil is being diluted with gasoline it would seem that your situation is excessive.
 
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