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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all - Newbie here, with a problem. In June we purchased a minty 2009 Sedona - one local owner, 94K km, no accidents, very clean, no rust, good maintenance, etc.

It was pretty much what we'd been looking for, and we love the large & very versatile interior.

We did our first big road trip, out to the Canadian Rockies, and encountered the dreaded CE light/loss of power three times.

Per the ScanGauge, the engine had gone into Open Loop mode, and the TPS would not respond to throttle input. The first time I had only bike tools with me, and was unable to remove the negative battery terminal to 'reboot' the system. After a few minutes it corrected itself, and was OK for almost a week.

About six days later it did it again. I was able to disconnect the negative this time, and that corrected the problem immediately.

It did it a 3rd time on the way home, and this time disconnecting the battery didn't work the first few times, although it did eventually correct itself. We were fine for the last 1200 or so km home, although I did notice the van bucking a bit whether or not we were using cruise.

In all cases, the ScanGauge was unable to read the code(s) or reset the CE light.

My online research seems to point to a bad TPS. Unfortunately I can't get an aftermarket one locally, and the dealer wants about C$660, even with a generous discount.

I've found the Cardone remanufactured ones online, and they're much cheaper.

My questions:

1. Is the TPS/TB likely the problem?

2. Is the Cardone a good unit?

3. There's been talk of the ECU/PCM having to be synched to the new TPS/TB. Is this so? I like to do my own maintenance & repairs, and would prefer not to have to take it in.

4. The one plug I pulled looked very good still other than being a bit sooty. I wonder if the TPS/TB problem has caused the engine to run rich?

5. Mileage was a bit disappointing on the trip - driving 100 - 110 kph, the van used c. 11 - 12 litres/100 km. I'd expected better - what are other people's experiences?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Have you tried your local salvage yard?
Just a thought....
Dave
 

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2007 Kia Spectra EX 5MT
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195 Posts
Check your intake snorkel for tears and you might as well order a new TPS. Should only cost about $30.

My 06 Sedona is certainly a gas guzzler

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
 

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2012 Rondo EX; 2011 Kia Sedona LX
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197 Posts
Can't speak to the technical aspects as I haven't owned the van long enough to have learned much about its systems, but I average 12.4L/100km (~23 MPG Imperial) combined as per TorquePro OBD2 from the van's ECU. Most (about 80%) of our driving is highway. I owned a new 2012 Hyundai Elantra and it averaged ~6.0L/100 km, so a noticeable difference, but to be expected.
 

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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #5
Guys -

Thanks for your replies!

Have you tried your local salvage yard?
Just a thought....
Dave
I did try a couple of local wreckers on-line but struck out. Regardless, I'd want one of the updated ones, or feel it's likely I'd be dealing with the same thing.

Check your intake snorkel for tears and you might as well order a new TPS. Should only cost about $30.
I pulled the snorkel this afternoon - it's got minor cracking at the joints, but I can't see any light through it - I think it's good for awhile yet.

Unfortunately my dealer has quoted me C$660 for the TPS (which I suspect includes the entire throttle body). As well, none of the jobbers here have a listing for the TPS or the throttle body.

The Cardone rebuilt TB is available for < C$200 which sounds pretty good if it's the updated unit, and if I don't have to have the PCM reflashed by the dealer.

I should add that most of the failures detailed in the sticky involve the 'ESC Off' light coming on as well - I don't think our van is equipped with ESC.

Any further thoughts appreciated!

Will keep you updated.
 

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2007 Kia Spectra EX 5MT
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195 Posts
My 06 went into limp mode after owning it for two or so weeks. When I took the engine cover off, the intake snorkel was taped up with brown box tape and the snorkel had a tear nearly all the way around (I think I made a thread about it). Anywho, while I was there I decided to go ahead and order the new TPS off of eBay and it did the trick.

The van hasn't gone into limo mode since. Since I have an 06, I didn't have to worry about the software issue.

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
 

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I created a thread on TPS sensor problems..

To make a long story short, these cars just like about all cars now do not have a "throttle cable" as in days past.

You have a gas pedal in the cabin that has a sensor on it, that talks to the ECU and one on the engine.
ECU "talks" to both units and poles data from both... If something is amiss the car goes into LIMP HOME MODE, ESC light comes on.

Codes from the ECM: P0638, P1295, and P2106.


Most likely cause is TPS sensor that it mounted on throttle body vs in cabin part due to HEAT, vibration, etc.

Check RockAuto.com to see if they have the TPS Sensor.


Additionally,

I'd REPLACE the INTAKE BOOT (Intake boots on Sedona /Hyundai Entourage.. which is same as Sedona are FAMOUS for cracking.


NOTE: At some point KIA "increased" the size of the fitting of the resonator box...
AND.... revamped the intake boot with a larger hole for where the "new" resonator box attaches.

Why is this important?
Well... Only the "new" style" intake boots with the LARGE hole for the resonator are available.

Luckily there is a simple /cheap fix.

How to adapt "new style" intake boot to a van that came with the resonator box with smaller size pipe coming off resonator.


As stated hole in intake boot depending on year mfg'd might be larger....

Options:
1: $$$$ Buy matching resonator box.
2: Cut off about 2 inches of hose off a washing machine discharge hose and make a adapter.
*You need to check OD /ID of hose you're going to use. For me I just happened to have a old spare washing machine hose handy that fit perfectly.

Process being:
Cut hose so it mimics length of the "stub" /neck /pipe" coming off the resonator box currently... work it onto the resonator box... then stick it into the intake boot and tighten clamp. DONE.

*Estimate= Piece needed about 2 inches long.. Been a few years..

Got intake boot off RockAuto.com


BTW: I don't think there is a listing for the adapter... You either make one or buy the large type resonator box.)



Oh, GAS MILEAGE=

12 City
22 Highway
 

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there is a ecu reprogram for basically anything that was fly-by-wire between 06 and 08. the 09's already have the reprogram done to the ecu.

KIA TSB# KT2009042201

Codes when van goes into Limp Home mode:
Codes from the ECM: P0638, P1295, and P2106.

http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-carnival-sedona-2006/44306-esc-off-sudden-lack-throttle-response.html#post242699

NOTE, Several years ago KIA allowed you to log-in to KGIS system and you could download SERVICE MANUAL(s) for your car, you could download TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins... and see what Warranty Work had been done..... Now they make you PAY.)

Good luck finding TSB's now.

.
 

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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #9
drbundabago - Yes, I had an old Protege that started fairly suddenly to run really poorly. I tried a fuel additive which didn't help, pulled a spark plug, etc., and after a few minutes stumbled upon the cracked intake air hose. Patched it with duct tape which worked great, but replaced it a few days later. However, I don't think that's the issue with the Sedona, unless there's a really tiny air leak.

WeAreNotAlone - I've been unable to find the TPS as a standalone part from dealer, local jobbers, or any online suppliers (including even the legendary Rock Auto). I presume the C$660 part from the dealer is the TB w/ TPS included.

However, rebuilt TBs (branded Cardone) are much more affordable @ around C$150. I think I'll go that route.

Thanks for the tip on the revised snorkel - I really like your idea on adapting the hose to the old resonator box.

Thanks for sharing your experiences here - I'll be sure to post back with my results. I'm certainly hoping I don't have to have the ECU reprogrammed - it looks like not.
 

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35107-3C100-NFFF was the latest part number as of 2012

-snip-
WeAreNotAlone - I've been unable to find the TPS as a standalone part from dealer, local jobbers, or any online suppliers (including even the legendary Rock Auto). I presume the C$660 part from the dealer is the TB w/ TPS included.

However, rebuilt TBs (branded Cardone) are much more affordable @ around C$150. I think I'll go that route.

Thanks for the tip on the revised snorkel - I really like your idea on adapting the hose to the old resonator box.

Thanks for sharing your experiences here - I'll be sure to post back with my results. I'm certainly hoping I don't have to have the ECU reprogrammed - it looks like not.

Be sure to post back, as for most people taking the van to the dealer and getting a problem fixed under warranty is NO longer a option.

Q: Can't find the TPS sensor anywhere?

Are you searching via Kia part number 35107-3C100-NFFF ?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=35107-3C100-NFFF&t=ffcm&ia=products


NOTE: 35107-3C100-NFFF was the latest part number as of 2012, so double check via online Kia site or contact your local dealer BEFORE ordering.

Best way to hunt down parts it type "Kia Parts" into search engine and scroll down till you find a listing that indicates they are a Kia dealer, then hunt with part number displayed.

Here's some for sale.
*You'll have to hunt down someone that ships to Canada

Sold and shipped by Amazon LLC... $31.41 Free Shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Hyundai-35107-3C100-NFFF-Throttle-Position-Assembly/dp/B00BJMLZQ6

Here's NEW one on Ebay for $25 shipped:
35107 3C100NFFF New Hyundai Kia Throttle Position Sensor TPS Assembly | eBay


One last thing, way back when local dealers were ripping people off saying you had to replace whole throttle body... that TPS sensor was not available.
*When xyz model is very new that may indeed be the case.. Ditto when parts inventories are being reduced when car gets so old.

.
 

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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #11
I ordered the Cardone part last night. I wish I'd thought of looking for the TPS by the Kia part number first. So it goes ... if the rebuilt TB fixes things, I'll be pleased.
 

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2007 Kia Spectra EX 5MT
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195 Posts
I created a thread on TPS sensor problems..

To make a long story short, these cars just like about all cars now do not have a "throttle cable" as in days past.

You have a gas pedal in the cabin that has a sensor on it, that talks to the ECU and one on the engine.
ECU "talks" to both units and poles data from both... If something is amiss the car goes into LIMP HOME MODE, ESC light comes on.

Codes from the ECM: P0638, P1295, and P2106.


Most likely cause is TPS sensor that it mounted on throttle body vs in cabin part due to HEAT, vibration, etc.

Check RockAuto.com to see if they have the TPS Sensor.


Additionally,

I'd REPLACE the INTAKE BOOT (Intake boots on Sedona /Hyundai Entourage.. which is same as Sedona are FAMOUS for cracking.


NOTE: At some point KIA "increased" the size of the fitting of the resonator box...
AND.... revamped the intake boot with a larger hole for where the "new" resonator box attaches.

Why is this important?
Well... Only the "new" style" intake boots with the LARGE hole for the resonator are available.

Luckily there is a simple /cheap fix.

How to adapt "new style" intake boot to a van that came with the resonator box with smaller size pipe coming off resonator.


As stated hole in intake boot depending on year mfg'd might be larger....

Options:
1: $$$$ Buy matching resonator box.
2: Cut off about 2 inches of hose off a washing machine discharge hose and make a adapter.
*You need to check OD /ID of hose you're going to use. For me I just happened to have a old spare washing machine hose handy that fit perfectly.

Process being:
Cut hose so it mimics length of the "stub" /neck /pipe" coming off the resonator box currently... work it onto the resonator box... then stick it into the intake boot and tighten clamp. DONE.

*Estimate= Piece needed about 2 inches long.. Been a few years..

Got intake boot off RockAuto.com


BTW: I don't think there is a listing for the adapter... You either make one or buy the large type resonator box.)



Oh, GAS MILEAGE=

12 City
22 Highway
Or do what I did... Cut that part off of the old resonator and fit it inside the new resonator and glue it on. Worked for my 06.

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
 

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Or do what I did... Cut that part off of the old resonator and fit it inside the new resonator and glue it in. Wished for my 06.

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
Whatever works to adapt old to new.
One thing that is confusing is you stating you cut part off old resonator and fit it inside new resonator. Are you saying you cut off a section of the old INTAKE BOOT and used that to make a adapter?

If so that would work assuming the rubber isn't degraded and seals properly.

.
 

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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #14
OK, the fun continues ... rec'd the Cardone rebuilt throttle body from PartsAvatar.ca. Installed it this afternoon, and now, as feared, the van has a check engine light that can't be cleared.

The codes are:

P0123
Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input

P0222
Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch B Circuit Low Input

P1295
Electronic Throttle Control System Malfunction Power Management (Kia-specific)

P2106
Throttle Actuator Ctrl Sys-Forced Limited Power

These all seem to me to be consistent with a revised TPS that's now out-of-sync with the APS.

So now I guess it's dealer time to get the ECU/PCM reflashed. There's light at the end of the tunnel!

Thanks everyone, for your help to date! To be continued.
 

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KIA's 2000 Carnival, 2008 Magentis, 2005 Optima
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There maybe a initialisation procedure required to be carried out when replacing the throttle body, it is usually beyond the capability of the simple OBD2 reader/reset unit, it usually requires the GDS/Snapon diagnostic unit or a unit with similar capabilities.
 

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2009 Kia Sedona & 2009 Mazda 5
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Discussion Starter #16
I had booked a CPM reflash at the dealer for this past Friday, but drove the van Wednesday evening and found it fine. The CEL had turned off on its own, the idle speed was good (c. 675 RPM in D when at operating temperature) and power & drivability seemed fine. (My wife had driven it the previous day and doesn't think the CEL was on then either.) I cancelled the reflash, and hope the rebuilt TB was a long-term fix. Will keep you posted.

Thanks to all who responded.
 

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2012 Kia Rondo
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Appreciate this discussion thread. My 2009 Kia Sedona, at approx 210K km, has just suffered continual forced limited power mode. I've had the following intermittent codes for the last three years without any physical signs of a forced limited power (at least that I was aware of) - P2106 P1295 P2135 P0016 and P0012. I still have the same codes but they are no longer intermittent and now the van is in full time forced limited power mode. This thread has given me hope that the continual forced limited power may be due to only the accelerator and throttle position sensors and not the CVVT sensor/possible timing chain codes. I'm going forward with new accelerator and throttle position sensors and if the forced limited power issue still occurs, the van will be sunsetted.
 

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2012 Kia Rondo
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Appreciate this discussion thread. My 2009 Kia Sedona, at approx 210K km, has just suffered continual forced limited power mode. I've had the following intermittent codes for the last three years without any physical signs of a forced limited power (at least that I was aware of) - P2106 P1295 P2135 P0016 and P0012. I still have the same codes but they are no longer intermittent and now the van is in full time forced limited power mode. This thread has given me hope that the continual forced limited power may be due to only the accelerator and throttle position sensors and not the CVVT sensor/possible timing chain codes. I'm going forward with new accelerator and throttle position sensors and if the forced limited power issue still occurs, the van will be sunsetted.
I'm happy to report that the vans limp-home mode is now deactivated due to a new accelerator position sensor. But, the van hasn't been through a full diagnostic cycle yet. Fingers crossed.
 

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2006 Kia Sedona
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Hello all - Newbie here, with a problem. In June we purchased a minty 2009 Sedona - one local owner, 94K km, no accidents, very clean, no rust, good maintenance, etc.

It was pretty much what we'd been looking for, and we love the large & very versatile interior.

We did our first big road trip, out to the Canadian Rockies, and encountered the dreaded CE light/loss of power three times.

Per the ScanGauge, the engine had gone into Open Loop mode, and the TPS would not respond to throttle input. The first time I had only bike tools with me, and was unable to remove the negative battery terminal to 'reboot' the system. After a few minutes it corrected itself, and was OK for almost a week.

About six days later it did it again. I was able to disconnect the negative this time, and that corrected the problem immediately.

It did it a 3rd time on the way home, and this time disconnecting the battery didn't work the first few times, although it did eventually correct itself. We were fine for the last 1200 or so km home, although I did notice the van bucking a bit whether or not we were using cruise.

In all cases, the ScanGauge was unable to read the code(s) or reset the CE light.

My online research seems to point to a bad TPS. Unfortunately I can't get an aftermarket one locally, and the dealer wants about C$660, even with a generous discount.

I've found the Cardone remanufactured ones online, and they're much cheaper.

My questions:

1. Is the TPS/TB likely the problem?

2. Is the Cardone a good unit?

3. There's been talk of the ECU/PCM having to be synched to the new TPS/TB. Is this so? I like to do my own maintenance & repairs, and would prefer not to have to take it in.

4. The one plug I pulled looked very good still other than being a bit sooty. I wonder if the TPS/TB problem has caused the engine to run rich?

5. Mileage was a bit disappointing on the trip - driving 100 - 110 kph, the van used c. 11 - 12 litres/100 km. I'd expected better - what are other people's experiences?

Thanks in advance for your help!
I used a Cardone a few months ago and it’s fine. Buy two, just to have a reserve.
 
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