[Gnome]

Hello and thanks in advance for any insights to my problem. Yesterday my 99 Sportage produced a loud bang and came to a rolling stop along the highway near my home. Attempts to restart resulted in popping and sputtering but it would not start.

I happened to have my code reader with me and upon checking I found codes p0137 and, more significantly, p0342. Since I had the reader I cleared to codes and tried again. This time it produced code p0336.

A little background:
The car had been throwing codes p0131 & p0137 which are O2 sensors. In an attempt to rectify this situation I finally changed out the upstream O2 sensor, cleared the codes and took a drive. This is when the failure occurred, approximately five miles from home after the sensor change. The code p0131 is now gone so at least that aspect seems to have been successful.


Does anyone think that there is any possibility that changing the O2 sensor (changed without incident BTW) could be related. It would seem not to me but...

The new codes, namely p0342 & p0336, relate to the camshaft and crankshaft positions. To a backyard mechanic such as myself this would seem to point to a failure of the timing belt and or tensioner. Does this sound correct?

I've spent years working on my own V8 vehicles and an not afraid to dig in to the sporty but these types of cars are very foreign to me.

This is my only vehicle and work on Monday morning is rapidly approaching. Can anyone help?



Resolution: A damaged/shorted crankshaft position sensor was the cause of the sudden failure. This thread also contains information on valve timing and catalytic converter failure.

 

[aquanaut20]

You are correct, the first place to check would be the timing belt. Look into the oil filler hole and ascertain if the cams are rotating, if NO you have your answer.... Philip

 

[GottaCruise]

The new codes, namely p0342 & p0336, relate to the camshaft and crankshaft positions. To a backyard mechanic such as myself this would seem to point to a failure of the timing belt and or tensioner. Does this sound correct?

Greetings,

Agreed, you need to pull off the upper timing belt cover and physically inspect the timing belt and timing... Or both upper and lower covers and inspect all components at the same time,

If you pull just the top cover and manually turn the crank bolt you should be able to determine if the belt is toast and verify I/E timing marks w/ the TDC mark on the harmonic balancer.

If you need to repair quickly / just slap a belt on, lots of folks here use Gates brand timing belts (including me) - that's what they sell at the dealership locally as OEM replacement.

Good luck on the repair, post back if you need help.

GottaCruise

 

[Galf]

If you are going to pull the belt cover you will probably need to replace the thermostat housing water outlet gasket.

 

[Gnome]

Thanks to all three of you, you each added something to my knowledge.

Update:
The camshaft that I can see through the oil filler is rotating so the belt is not totally destroyed. I suppose it could have jumped teeth/cogs and is now out of time. I'm off now to pull the timing cover.

I have no written manual on this car and am relying upon the web as source of information. Can anyone link me to a page that describes how to verify the timing.

 

[GottaCruise]

http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/73418-low-engine-compression.html

With both upper & lower covers off:

Crank pulley indexed vertically to (o) mark,

(I)ntake and (E)xhaust cam pulleys indexed vertically to (|) marks on back cover shield,

Timing belt replacement procedure: signup at the kiatechinfo website (see my sig.) using Internet Explorer, navigate to (Service Info) for your model year Sporty,



If still unsure of true TDC: (how to confirm/verify visually, need to pull more parts..)
----------

Remove -all- Spark plugs, insert a thin-blade screwdriver in plug #1 hole (closest to front of motor) and turn crank pulley bolt clock-wise to verify TDC mark vs. true piston TDC,

Pull valve cover and visually verify cam lobes closest to front of motor are pointing (opposite) each other (towards outer edges) on #1 TDC,

*Don'ts: do not turn crank pulley bolt counter-clockwise without first removing _all_ spark plugs from motor (cylinder pressure can/will cause belt to jump time,

*Do's: turn crank pulley bolt clockwise only,

consider using a piece of flat-stock between the Intake and Exhaust cams, using the top timing cover bolt to secure (I) and (E) cams into TDC position when fitting replacement belt, makes (1) person belt replacement MUCH easier..: **Don't forget to -remove the flatstock- before turning crank pulley bolt to set / confirm timing TDC after fitting belt! **

 

[Gnome]

GottaCruise,

Thanks for the continued support. Here's where things stand now. Front cover, along with numerous accessories, now removed. Everything, at least at first glance, looks normal. The belt seems tight without being overly so. No real belt wear to note. I was told by garage where purchased that they replaced the timing belt prior to my purchase in 2008, which is consistent with what I am seeing.

OK, back to the car. I wonder if the crank pulley needs to come off to remove the lower cover, guess I'll find out.

Thanks again.

 

[GottaCruise]

GottaCruise,

Thanks for the continued support. Here's where things stand now. Front cover, along with numerous accessories, now removed. Everything, at least at first glance, looks normal. The belt seems tight without being overly so. No real belt wear to note. I was told by garage where purchased that they replaced the timing belt prior to my purchase in 2008, which is consistent with what I am seeing.

OK, back to the car. I wonder if the crank pulley needs to come off to remove the lower cover, guess I'll find out.

Thanks again.

re: lower cover, no, just the outer harmonic balancer (pulley) assembly (5 or 6 bolts spaced around the pulley, holds harmonic balancer to the crank gear.. - you -do not- have to remove the crank gear bolt to remove the lower cover.

**Only remove the crank bolt if you are intent on checking the crank gear -> crank snout and keyway for damage.. This bolt is tightened to 120+ ft. lbs torque: you need to be sure you are provisioned for removal -> installation (Air tools / Impact wrench, a tool to hold crank gear in-place while tightening if auto trans., a torque wrench, etc.)

--
If you are not able to signup at kiatechinfo website, let us know so we can help / PM you the timing belt procedure..

Filling in your user profile: Year Sportage, mileage, type of trans, 2wd or 4x4, and location would help us here to help.

 

[GottaCruise]

Gnome,

If mechanical timing looks ok (Cams match up, TDC indicated on harmonic balancer), given you had O2 sensor issues, I'd try pulling the upper O2 sensor (exhaust manifold) - if it starts that would indicate an exhaust system blockage - failed upper cat. / clogged main cat. or muffler..

But given the codes you posted, I would go through the steps and pull the bottom cover to make sure the crank gear mark is matching up properly first.

* If you decide to pull the O2 sensor and check while disassembled, make sure you reinstall the harmonic balancer, hookup the alternator w/ belt, and do not run for more than 30 seconds, if testing w/o coolant in the system..

 

[Gnome]

GottaCruise,

Lower cover removed, somehow it came free without any further removal of parts, IE no pulley/harmonic balancer removal was necessary it slipped right up behind them.

Just to verify my observations, when you advise to observe the lower timing marks I assume you are referring to the hemispherical notch in the crank pulley that resides behind the outer components. This notch appears to align with a protrusion in the block casting. Is this correct?

Next, I am currently unsure of what you refer to as true TDC. Both cam gears have similar markings but are opposite of each other. I have not yet removed any further components in order to determine true TDC, however it may not be relevant, yet.

Regardless, for now, of which orientation of vertical marks is true TDC should not the lower index marks align? This is not the case, the notch in the pulley is at least one tooth advanced (rotated one tooth clockwise) in relation to the index on the casting.

Am I correct in assuming that the belt has jumped a tooth? If so is this enough the produce the codes described earlier? If the belt itself did not fail could the tensioner spring be weak? The vehicle has 92K on the odometer.

I am willing and able to join the group that you have referred me to but this type of one on one is invaluable to me in diagnosing the problem first.


EDIT: Please note that if I am incorrect concerning the lower index marks and you do mean the grooves in the steel pulley, should be vertical then it would seem that the belt jumped even more as it is now at about the 2 O'clock position.

 

[GottaCruise]

Ok, good that you were able to get the lower cover off without further disassembly,

re: crank gear pulley mark indexed vertically to mark above (on block) - correct, that is what I was referring to,

re: timing TDC vs. (true TDC) - this is to verify (true) piston / cam TDC if you suspect the crank snout / crank gear & woodruff key have been compromised.. But let's take it one step at a time..

re: one tooth advanced clockwise: If the index marks for the (I)ntake and (E)xhaust cam pulleys are lined up to the marks on the back cover plate, and the index mark on the Crank gear vs. on block is off, then mechanical timing is -not lined up- ...

re: did the belt jump, or do you have a more serious issue (crank snout issue / busted woodruff key) - I cannot tell from here, it requires more teardown work on your part, this is where the (true TDC) checks come into play..

You stated you hear a "bang" from the motor before issue, if it was not the timing belt breaking, it may have jumped, but if it did not jump, that may have been the crank snout letting go - again I cannot diagnose from here..


re: signing up at kiatechinfo - please do so,

then you can see the info. needed to adjust the timing belt / affect the repair:

Signup is free, access to the material is free, but the site specifically limits reproduction of material off-site: you really need to get to the repair procedure so you have the info. needed..

Timing System components:
--
SPORTAGE(AL) >1999 > G 2.0 DOHC > Engine Mechanical System -> Timing System -> Timing Belt -> (components and components locations) ..

Timing belt repair:
--
SPORTAGE(AL) >1999 > G 2.0 DOHC > Engine Mechanical System -> Timing System -> Timing Belt -> (repair procedures) ..

Or PM me w/ email details and I'll try to help w/ getting you the info..

--
If anyone reading has further insight / suggestions / recommendations, please jump in here..

GottaCruise

 

[ron1004]

The Kia Tech Info site: http://www.kiatechinfo.com web site has good images showing how the crank and cam timing marks line up.

Line the marks up as per the diagrams and with the plugs out confirm that the pistons are at TDC when the crank pulley is on the mark - if not, then pull the crank pulley off and check the condition of the wood-ruff key and key-ways in the crank and pulley.

https://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/...G/SHOP-Images/KM-AL13-IMAGES-ENG/bc7c060a.gif

https://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/...G/SHOP-Images/KM-AL13-IMAGES-ENG/bc7c070a.gif

https://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/...G/SHOP-Images/KM-AL13-IMAGES-ENG/bc7c070b.gif

Camshaft Pulleys
1.
Hold the camshaft with a wrench.
2.
Remove the camshaft pulley lock bolts and the camshafts.

[See large image...]
INSTALLATION
1.
Align the timing belt pulley and the pump body alignment marks.

[See large image...]
2.
Align the mating marks on the camshaft pulleys with the alignment marks on the seal plate.
•
For intake side camshaft pullet, align “I” mark
•
For exhaust side camshaft pulley, align “E” mark.

[See large image...]
3.
Install the timing belt so there is no looseness at the tension side, and at the two camshaft pulleys.
•
If the timing belt is being, it must be reinstalled to rotate in the original direction.
•
Check that there is no oil, grease, or dirt on the timing belt.

[See large image...]
4.
Loosen the tensioner lock bolt.
5.
Turn the crankshaft two camplete revolutions in the direction of rotation.
6.
Check that the mating marks are correctly aligned. If not aligned correctly, remove the timing belt and tensioner, and return to step 1.
7.
Turn the crankshaft to align the “S”mark of the exhaust camshaft pulley with the seal plate mating mark.

[See large image...]
8.
Tighten the timing belt tensioner lock bolt.
Tightening torque : 27-38ft·lb(32-52N·m, 3.8-5.3kg·m)
9.
Check the timing belt deflection. If the deflection is not correct, loosen the tensioner lock bolt and repeat steps 5-7 above. Replace the tensioner spring if necessary.

[See large image...]
Belt deflection : 0.30-0.33 in.(7.5-8.5mm)／22lb(98N, 10kg)

 

[Gnome]

No real progress. Having difficulty removing the power steering belt in order to proceed. Some computer problem is preventing me from reviewing the user agreement at kiatechinfo.com. so I cant register. Had enough for today, will continue tomorrow.

Thanks to all who replied.

 

[ron1004]

No real progress. Having difficulty removing the power steering belt in order to proceed. Some computer problem is preventing me from reviewing the user agreement at kiatechinfo.com. so I cant register. Had enough for today, will continue tomorrow.

Thanks to all who replied.

Try the tips found here:

http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-2005-2010-sportage/71242-whats-wrong-kgis-site.html

http://www.kia-forums.com/3g-2011-sportage/75704-kgis.html

 

[Gnome]

Update:

After much disassembly, cleaning and a little swearing, I have come to several conclusions. Stated in order of relevancy to this thread.


First issue:

The timing belt has indeed slipped, piston #1 physically at TDC, first cam lobes pointing outward and the hemispherical notch in the first crank pulley/gear is not aligned with the index in the block casting.

At this point, although I have not yet been able to access the Kia forum referred to above, I am confident enough to conclude that parts must be ordered and replaced. If my information/supposition regarding the age of the timing belt are correct, is it necessary to replace it after approx 20K?

After removing the balancer/pulley I have observed that the woodruff key appears undamaged and without issue. I have not yet removed the most inboard pulley so I cannot yet observe the entire length of the key. Is this necessary?

If the belt is indeed relatively new but still slipped I assume that the tensioner spring is weak. Are there other possibilities? Is it 'false economy' to re-use the old belt? I think I can deduce the answer.

Second issue:

During the process of cleaning and inspection I believe that I have determined the cause of the low O2 codes that I had been experiencing. The exhaust manifold has a fairly extensive crack and was probably the source of the codes p0131 & P0137.

Third Issue:

Where I would expect to see a catalytic element, just downstream from the exhaust manifold, I observe only remnants of the element.

Fourth issue:

Whatever sensor is behind the exhaust manifold, (it seems to be in threaded into the bellhousing), the leads were cooked from contact with the manifold. I believe that I can solder and heat shrink them back together. Not sure if any damage occurred to the sensor itself.

I truly appreciate the consideration that you have shown me so far.

 

[aquanaut20]

The true condition of the snout and key way cannot be determined without removing the lower pulley.

If the lower pulley is not lined up when the #1 is TDC, the snout has suffered damage.

It is false economy to reuse timing belt.

The slack would not be consistent with a weak tension spring as the tension-er is locked in place after initial adjustment.... Philip

 

[GottaCruise]

I'll give my thoughts, hopefully others will jump in with theirs:

First Issue:
--
re: (I) cam not indexed to mark in back cover, how far is it off? A cam notch or two? Lots? Bear in mind that 2-3 notches doesn't translate to major cam movement, it's a sizable pulley. The (I) pulley should be indexed to the marks and rechecked..

re: pull crank gear to fully inspect the woodruff keyway, yes, but only if you have the equipment to remove the crank gear & bolt, check, and reinstall the crank bolt to the 120 ft. lbs. torque required.

re: reuse timing belt, -if- the belt is physically in good shape, you have confirmed there is no cracking or missing teeth on the belt, then I would reuse it, see below.

Second Issue:
--
This is most likely what cooked your pre-Cat - illegal air telling the primary O2 sensor to dump more fuel into the motor, in turn burning out the pre-Cat.

With all that fuel cooking the pre-Cat, I'd be suspect of the primary O2 sensor also, but an OBDII scanner post-repair would be the best way to confirm.


Third Issue:
--
This is the primary Catalytic Converter (or pre-Cat), it is toast.

You will need to replace it.

You may also need to replace the Main Catalytic Converter, let me explain why:

The primary Cat. Converter (or pre-Cat) contains a ceramic honeycomb chamber that is coated with noble metals (platinum) to convert exhaust gases.

When the ceramic honeycomb is over-heated (cooked) by copious amounts of fuel (see Second issue above) the ceramic honeycomb cracks, and due to exhaust gas pressure, begins to abrade the cracked pieces together, turning them into small pieces the consistency of small pieces of rock and sand,

That material only has one place to go: into -> the Main Cat. Converter.

What this does is plug up the Main Cat. - think a funnel w/ running water, dump sand into the funnel, it plugs up.

--
So, you will need to (remove) the Main Cat. converter also, and try to dump out as much material as possible into a container to attempt to (measure) what you are able to reclaim back out of the Main Cat., in conjunction with trying to (force) material out with compressed air from the (back side) of the Main Cat.

** If the keyway is in good shape, and the timing was not aligned correctly at last belt change, when the engine stopped / failed, excessive back-pressure may have caused the timing belt to jump. (If it was me) and having been through this same exact scenario, I would re-use the existing timing belt, if you deem it in good condition after inspecting it thoroughly.

Fourth Issue:
--
Take a pic and post, but I'm guessing this is the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPK) - it is a hall-effect sensor, reads the flywheel to determine crank (piston) position. (Without knowing how bad the wiring is / if the sensor shorted, I couldn't tell you if it is still good.)

If the wiring melted to the point of not communicating with the ECM, then you have your answer why the Sporty stopped dead on the highway.

I'd try repairing the wiring, with the expectation it may need to be replaced.

--
** For the sake of thoroughness, if you have the tools / are so equipped, I would also pull the crank gear and inspect at this time. If not, and you get it back together / it runs poorly, you may have to tear it back down to this point a second time to confirm the crank snout / keyway..

You are looking at an Exhaust Manifold, a primary Cat. Converter, a primary O2 sensor, and possibly a Crankshaft position sensor in parts,

Needing to remove and dump out / clean the Main Cat. Converter, if you cannot get most of the material out from the pre-cat then would look at replacement also,

If you have a salvage yard or a "pick and pull" close to your location, it may be worth making some calls.

--
I've gone through / had to do this same exact repair. ( I was helped by having a parts Sportage I had picked up several months earlier by fortunate circumstance, so I was able to cannibalize the needed parts off of it. )

That may be another option, check the local paper and/or Craigslist, see if someone is selling a Sporty due to frame issues, etc. on the cheap..

It will take several more days of work, and a bit more swearing, but you can get the Sporty back on the road.. If I did it, you can do it too.

Let me know if I can help, will be checking in each day.
GottaCruise

 

[Gnome]

Thanks to you both for the information. Just to add to the information and to clarify where I am now.

First issue:

re: (I) cam not indexed to mark in back cover, how far is it off? A cam notch or two? Lots? Bear in mind that 2-3 notches doesn't translate to major cam movement, it's a sizable pulley. The (I) pulley should be indexed to the marks and rechecked..

I have been looking at it the other way round. I have the cam pulleys aligned vertically to the stamped marks in the backer plate and they are aligned well in relation to each other, both vertical. From this perspective the discrepancy is below. The lower pulley (with the woodruff key) is advanced approx 1 tooth clockwise in relation to the mark on the block. If this is still unclear I can try to get pics tomorrow. If this amount is not an issue then I can only assume that I have misdiagnosed the problem from the start, especially considering the shorted wiring of the sensor described above. I fear that I may not be relating what I am seeing adequately.

re: pull crank gear to fully inspect the woodruff keyway, yes, but only if you have the equipment to remove the crank gear & bolt, check, and reinstall the crank bolt to the 120 ft. lbs. torque required.

I have actually already removed the crank gear bolt when I erroneously concluded that it had to be removed in order to remove the harmonic balancer. I do have a 1/2" impact driver and loosening the bolt was not difficult. Not sure how to achieve the required torque upon re-installation though. Is a puller required to remove the crank gear?


Second issue:

This is most likely what cooked your pre-Cat - illegal air telling the primary O2 sensor to dump more fuel into the motor, in turn burning out the pre-Cat.

I believe that the Pre-Cat has been damaged for some time now. Please see below. I was considering brazing the crack but once I removed the manifold it appears to extend halfway around the casting.

With all that fuel cooking the pre-Cat, I'd be suspect of the primary O2 sensor also

This is the sensor that I mentioned changing in my opening post of this thread so that is covered.


Third issue:

When I first purchased the car I experienced problems with cracked coil packs and deteriorated leads to the packs. This created multiple misfires and, presumably, allowed unburned fuel to enter the exhaust system resulting in the Main Cat literally glowing red hot.

Re: Clogged/ruined Main Cat, everything you say is correct except that it occurred previously. The Main Cat was indeed a solid lump due to the excessive heat and, what I now know to be, the debris from the Pre-Cat. The Main Cat was later replaced with an aftermarket/universal type Cat.

So it looks like I need a new Pre-Cat but not Main Cat. I can check to to be sure though.

Fourth issue:

I'm

guessing this is the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPK) - it is a hall-effect sensor, reads the flywheel to determine crank (piston) position.

The sensor in question has a cylindrical portion that is not visible when installed and a small magnet located at the end of the cylinder.

If the wiring melted to the point of not communicating with the ECM, then you have your answer why the Sporty stopped dead on the highway.

Yes, all three conductors are exposed and very likely shorted against the manifold. This is beginning to look like the true culprit all along. When I changed the primary O2 sensor I probably dislodged the wire from it's intended location causing it to melt and short.

In conclusion:

The timing still has me puzzled. Your remarks imply that a one tooth discrepancy is not much. In other words, the timing may not have jumped at all.

I must replace the cracked exhaust manifold, the ruined Pre-Cat and verify condition of the Main cat.

I must repair/replace the CPK sensor and prevent the problem from reoccurring.

Primary O2 sensor is brand new.

Now here's the $64K question. Was there ever anything wrong with the timing at all or was the shorted CPK entirely to blame for the sudden failure. Man that was a lot of wrenching for just a shorted wire.

Thanks again for your help, I know that this can be hard to follow via this type of communication.

 

[GottaCruise]

Hi Gnome,

Ok, first let's get you hooked up to kiatechinfo -
please see below for phone contact info:

Kiatechinfo.com account support:
--
1-800-333-4542
Press 3
5:00 AM to 6:00 PM Pacific Time
Monday through Friday

Remember, Internet Explorer browser is the preferred / expected web browser used when signing up at the kiatechinfo.com website..

--
re CPK sensor - from what you describe, the sensor w/ the wiring issue is in-fact the CPK sensor, inserts into bell-housing below & behind the exhaust manifold, long cylinder w/ sensor on end.

re: timing index marks, ron1004 was kind enough to link-post to the docs on kiatechinfo above, look at picture links: (always appreciated Ron)

https://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/d...G/bc7c070a.gif

https://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/d...G/bc7c070b.gif

to confirm timing index marks,

if you have doubts / questions about the current timing position, --post some pics-- so we can review and help,


re: crank bolt / crank snout: since you have everything opened up, now is the best time to confirm crank snout & woodruff key integrity, so *yes, if it was me I would be loosening & removing the belt after placing some painters / masking tape to denote current (I) and (E) positions, removing the crank gear and verifying integrity of the keyway.

With the belt removed, that is the best way to verify belt integrity..

Since you have an impact wrench / air tools, after verifying keyway integrity, put the crank bolt back in, put the Sporty in 1st gear, torque the bolt, reinstall the belt with (I), (E), and crank in TDC position, turn motor 2x clockwise to the "S" mark, and tighten the tensioner bolt, then -turning clockwise only- go back around and re-check all marks to make sure everything is still lining up.

But again, this is just my opinion - it's your Sporty & your motor: you should do what you need to do in the interest of getting a running vehicle back on the road..

--
re: 64k question - if the timing was not exactly lined up on the last belt change, then your time/effort was not wasted: if mechanical timing is not properly lined up, it's restricting/dumping fuel or restricting/bleeding exhaust when it shouldn't be due to improper valve-train alignment..

In short, if I heard a "bang" when driving & the motor died, I absolutely would be verifying timing / mechanical integrity all the way down to the crank snout..

Back pressure from clogged exhaust / defective Cat, ignition system issue due to bad wires / coil / coil power lead, fuel system delivery issue, or a failed sensor issue can all make the motor stumble badly / cause timing to jump, or affect the timing belt..

Gotta go do the work thing, will try to get some pics of the timing setup on the parts Sporty here and post, but may not be till tomorrow am, if anyone knows some good links to timing mark position on existing posts, please jump in, thanks..

 

[DavesSpectra]

I didn't re-read all the posts on this thread ....BUT... One thing keeps hitting my brain...
What if a piston tie rod broke loose (bang) but DIDN'T come through the side of the block (internal damage). Say it lodged itself into the cylinder wall. The engine would still crank, the timing would be dead on, but it would make it hard if not impossible to start the engine.

I didn't notice the "common" Sportage suggestion to check compression which would also show this type of damage...but...I may have missed it with my quick scan of posts.

Suggestion: Remove the spark plugs and insert a long dowel rod into each cylinder and move the crank manually...watch to see "if" the dowel rod moves up and down...then go to the next cylinder. If it does in all 4 then forget my suggestion.

It's the "loud bang" that bothers me...
Dave