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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi folks, been lurking a long time and you've helped a lot. Need some advice:

2007 Rio5 manual trans
83k miles

I'm driving at 50mph or so and the engine loses power suddenly for about 3 seconds. Goes into open loop (scanguage II).

A minute later or so I stop at a light and the engine dies in neutral, clutch out.
Turns over merrily but won't start. No unusual noises/smells/leaks.

I've pushed it to a grocery store parking lot. Still won't start. Turns over but doesn't even attempt to run.

No codes stored on scanguage.

So I'm home now and will be going back with tools. Any ideas of how I should start to tackle this problem?
 

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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Running again, more info

So I go back to see if I can hear the fuel pump pressurizing. Well I can't because it's really quiet. Listened to the other car (2007 rondo) and that pump is also near silent. After going from Off to RUN a few times a decided to try starting it and it did!

On the way home it "hitched" again but got home successfully.

Think I should look into getting a $140 replacement pump? Or could the problem be something else?

EDIT: When it did start the airbag warning light came on for about 10 seconds. I never see this light unless I stall the car for some reason. Wonder if this has anything to do with it. I know there's a campaign out to replace faulty spring contacts in the steering wheel airbag, maybe I should go ahead and get that done.
 

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2007 Rio5, 2012 Sorento EX-V6
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113 Posts
An airbag issue wouldn't cause the car to stall and not start. If there is a sensor that would cause this, I would say crankshaft position sensor, or camshaft position sensor.
Do you have a scanner to check for pending codes? Do you/did you smell gas when it wouldn't start?
 

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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Didn't notice a gas smell at any time. Still no codes stored on my scanguage II. I removed the fuel pump at home and noticed the gas I poured out of the top was very dark, sediment perhaps or junk from a shredding pump? I didn't think to pour it through a coffee filter or anything. Other than that it seemed fine. Didn't see any dirt in the bottom of the plastic tub it sits in or on the mesh filter around the pickup. I've been driving around with the rear seat up so that I can listen to the pump as I'm going. Other than a momentary stumble today there's been no problems. I didn't notice if the pump quit or not when the engine stumbled.

My trust is still damaged, and still considering a new pump. I should probably replace the filter while I'm at it. Everything has to wait for money since I'm still out of a job.
 

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Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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6,928 Posts
You are at the right mileage for a timing belt failure... They should be replaced around 60k miles (per the owners manual) and usually fail around 85k miles. I'd check for missing teeth or broken belt. This is an interference type engine and massive damage can happen if the belt slips too far (jumps missing teeth) or breaks.
Something to look at and to replace if over 60k miles and not replaced.
Dave
 

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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I replaced the timing belt at around 70k miles. My scanner finally gave me a code today, P0339 and P0337. Both indicating crankshaft position sensor. I got the codes too late in the day to check things out but I'll be looking into it tomorrow. I'm glad I didn't spring for a fuel pump yet.
 

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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sensor is ordered and on its way. I've narrowed down the symptoms: the car runs fine until the sensor itself gets to a certain temperature, then it stutters and quits. Letting the car cool down for an hour or so will get me another 10 miles of travel so I can limp home. While applying for a job at Carmax yesterday I had a chance to talk to one of their mechanics. He said that the sensor itself can develop a hairline crack over time that gets worse when it gets hot. The fracture allows the sensor to detect the metal of the block its inserted into thereby desensitizing it to the metal of the tooth of the timing wheel as it travels past the sensor. If the computer doesn't see a sharp difference it doesn't count as a timing mark event and the signal is rejected. Without that information the computer can't calculate the right ignition and injector timing and the engine quits.
 

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2007 Rio5 M/T
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40 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Got the sensor installed and the car runs fine now. Putting the new unit in was harder than expected because it was difficult to get it all the way seated due to the new o-ring. Ended up using a little white lithium grease and helping it in by wriggling and gradually tightening the 10mm bolt. Although it's on the radiator-side of the engine the angle is awkward and not large hands friendly. Glad the problem is solved though. Made a few short runs around the neighborhood working to longer trips. Now I've had it on the highway for a 2+ hour trip without a hiccup or code. Faith is restored.
 

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Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Thanks for taking the time to post your results. It will be of help to others
Dave
 
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