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Discussion Starter #1
My room mate has a 2008 Sedona, and Saturday night while driving him, it stalled on her. We towed it to a nearby parking lot, and I have been trying to get it figured out, but I'm not having much luck, so I'm hoping someone on here can help.

The alternator and battery look good. The battery still had a full charge when I checked it, so I don't think thats the issue. The gas tank is full, so I know thats not the issue. Since I was working alone, I had to check the fuel pump by jumping the relay, but I could hear the pump running. I'm not sure how to check if there is actual flow though (or where the fuel filter is to see if its clogged). Starting fluid didn't do any good, and when I did get help, the relay for the fuel pump was not activating (I checked it, and the relay itself is good). All of that has lead me to believe that I have some form of electrical problem that is causing the fuel pump relay not to activate, and there to be something preventing a spark. However, when I do crank it, it always seems like 1 or 2 cylinders are firing, and the rest just don't want to - like it keep ALMOST starting, but never makes it.

Any help would be great. I've got a fair amount of mechanic experience, but never on anything this new. Plus this is the first time I've looked at any Kia, little own this van.
 

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Well... The help has been overwhelming, but I'll post what I've got so far on the odd chance it will help someone else. I downloaded a service manual and it looks like I am dealing with a potential camshaft position sensor (CMPS) or crankshaft position sensor (CKPS) problem. Of course, I've been unable to find any information on where they are, how to test them, etc. So if anyone has info on that, please speak up.
 

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I'm on my phone right now so can't type too much but it looks like you found the answer that I thought it might from reading your first post.

There should be a link to KIA service manuals on this site somewhere?

Edit: Register here https://www.kiatechinfo.com/Index.asp
 

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There is a cam position sensor on each bank, and the crank position sensor is located on the transmission bell housing. I will post pictures of their location when I am on my home computer later.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info.. And I downloaded a manual from somewhere that claimed to be the same one the techs use in a dealership, but it has been marginally helpful at best. But now it looks like my search is going off in another direction...

I thought it was one of those sensors because when I sprayed starting fluid in, it wouldn't start (I read as no spark). Turns out when I pulled the plugs, i did have spark (and compression). So I'm back at square one...

I have spark, and I have compression.. so that suggests a fuel problem. I found the fuel pump relay was not being activated. They relay itself is good, and jumping the relay, I can hear the fuel pump running, but the car still won't start (even with the starting fluid).

So my two thoughts now are

a) its a timing problem - but I am under the impression that the 2008 has a timing CHAIN rather than belt, making the possibility of slipping a tooth pretty slim, plus I'm pretty sure my friend would have heard a noise had it broke (plus I don't think I'd be getting compression in all cylinders).

or

b) There is something wrong with the computer/computer system which is causing the fuel pump not to be activated AND the spark to be mistimed.

And (this I just need to vent/rant about), making this all more difficult is how poorly this van has been cared for.. I'm found a hand full of problems (blown fuses [unrelated], clogged air filter [replacing didn't help], the oil is pitch black and 1 qt low [added the 1 qt, need to get it home so I can change it], a giant tear in the air intake tube [duct taping the crap out of it didn't help]), plus she had picture of her kids on the dash, covering the CEL. :mad: So I would bet my life that the CEL has been on for a while, and had she seen it I could have pulled the codes and fixed it before it broke down.

-_- whew... I feel a bit better now.

Off to get a code reader and see what I can come up with...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So, the good/bad news is I didn't find any codes... But I also pulled the battery last night to charge it (since it was drained from all the cranking), and didn't think about the fact that the codes would get cleared. So a charged battery, n0 codes, but no start.

The reader also told me the MIL was off, and I had "4 incomplete monitors" - Catalyst, EVAP, O2 sensor, and O2 heater. I've never dealt with these monitors before, but my googling doesn't seem to suggest that they are something that could help me to find my problem....
 

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Does the van have the Luxury package? A quick answer is does it have leather seats? If it DOES, it has luxury package. If it DOESN'T, it does not have luxury package. As a part of the luxury package there is a key immobilizer. That immobilizer can cause some strange problems. A little bit more about the immobilizer:
The immobilizer system will disable the vehicle unless the proper ignition key is used, in addition to the currently available anti-theft systems such as car alarms, the immobilizer system aims to drastically reduce the rate of auto theft.
1.
Encrypted SMARTRA type immobilizer
A.
The SMARTRA system consists of a passivie challenge - response (mutual authentication)transponder located in the ignition key, an antenna coil, a encoded SMARTRA unit, an indicator light and the PCM(ECM).
B.
The SMARTRA communicates to the PCM(ECM) (Engine Control Module) via a dedicated communications line. Since the vehicle engine management system is able to control engine mobilization, it is the most suitable unit to control the SMARTRA.
C.
When the key is inserted in the ignition and turned to the ON position, the antenna coil sends power to the transponder in the ignition key. The transponder then sends a coded signal back through the SMARTRA unit to the PCM(ECM).
D.
If the proper key has been used, the PCM(ECM) will energize the fuel supply system. The immobilizer indicator light in the cluster will simultaneously come on for more than five seconds, indicating that the SMARTRA unit has recognized the code sent by the transponder.
E.
If the wrong key has been used and the code was not received or recognized by the PCM(ECM) the indicator light will continue blinking for about five seconds until the ignition switch is turned OFF.
F.
If it is necessary to rewrite the PCM(ECM) to learn a new key, the dealer needs the customer's vehicle, all its keys and the Hi-scan (pro) equipped with an immobilizer program card. Any key that is not learned during rewriting will no longer start the engine.
G.
The immobilizer system can store up to eight key codes.
H.
If the customer has lost his key, and cannot start the engine, contact Kia motors service station.

But first, check out this video. Follow the link to view the video. See if it solves your problem.
Kia Sedona & HYundai Entourage Intermittent No Crank No Start Fix - YouTube
 

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Also, you can register at kiatechinfo.com and get the actual Kia Service Manual, published by Kia. It's free.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No on the leather seats/luxury package. And I jumped on the KiaTech site, and remembered that I'd had problems there before when I was trying to get the manual. Every time I try to create a login in, there is an error on the site.... So I'll keep trying it, thanks for the info.
 

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After looking at the schematic that runs the control circuit on the fuel pump relay...check the O2 UP and O2 DN fuses. They are immediately adjacent to the Main Relay. Both 10A. Have you checked fuel pump fuse? 15A.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I checked all the fuses when it first died (that's how I came across the wiper fluid and cigarette light problems), but I'll double check them the next time I'm there.

And kiatechinfo still isn't letting me register, so I'll have to give them a call tomorrow...
 

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Hmm....what's the mileage, and is the owner the original owner?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I want to say mileage is like 13XXXX, definitely over 100k. And the owner bought it "used" with like 400 miles on it. No warranty if that is what you're thinking.
 

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I'll run it by the service manager at my dealership, see if it's anything that he's ever heard of. I'm pretty stumped.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Glad its not just me... I've been getting pretty frustrated working on this thing and getting no where with it.

Thanks for the help.
 

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The way the symptoms are based on the schematic....it could be a bad ECM. Expensive part to throw at it without being sure though.
 

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Have you thought about trying the IPS Module bypass method?

There's not any cost involved in doing this and it is reversible - all you need is a bit of wire and maybe an hour of your time.

This "should" rule out if it is an immobiliser problem?

No Start/No Crank
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I was under the impression that since the can doesn't have the Luxury Package (based on it not having the leather seats), it did not have an impobiliser.
 
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