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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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209 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone else tried using manual mode from a standstill at full throttle when in manual-mode with the 6 speed auto? I noticed when I try to go through the gears in manual mode, when I shift from first to second, it skips right into third. I realize there is an automatic shift if you rev to high, and the revs rise pretty quick in first gear in the SX, but even if I shift what should be early enough, I think it still hits second, then my input pushes it into third. Does first just shift to second earlier than second to third? I don't feel I'm shifting too late...
 

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2012 Sportage SX FWD
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354 Posts
try turning off traction control. i read that the ECU limits the engine output in the first 3 gears with traction control on. maybe it alters manual shift mode too.

personally, i haven't had enough road to launch and sustain acceleration through the first 3. i do like to downshift to 4th on the interstate and embarrass tuners though. very entertaining.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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209 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do believe there is torque limiting, although I think that may only be for FWD models. I saw a video of someone with a SX testing boost pressures, and he did not get full boost in first gear. When I have tested mine (AWD) in first gear, I still get 16lbs sustained through first and second for sure.
 

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2012 Sportage SX FWD
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When I have tested mine (AWD) in first gear, I still get 16lbs sustained through first and second for sure.
just to check, is this with or without traction control on? perhaps the fancy planar gears in the AWD transfer case are reducing the torque on the ground?
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not too sure if I remember correctly, but I think I did my runs with traction control on.

I have yet to have the traction control light come on under a full throttle launch. With AWD, automatic and that slight bit of lag you have coming off the line, I don't see how traction control would be necessary even with a full throttle launch. I don't know if it is reducing torque, but I sometimes feel it should be quicker, especially with reviewers getting 6.1s. I have noticed a run or two where it felt like it wasn't running full boost or something...maybe just me though.
 

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2012 Black Cherry AWD Sportage SX
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Yes I believe my also does it when your on it hard in manual shift it launches great then shifts to 2nd then 3rd real quick!!! I dont remember if I had TC on/off but now Im going to have to make a run to the store!! LoL
 

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2012 Sportage SX FWD
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ok. this car has an ECU that regulates EVERYTHING. for every input, there are a range of outputs. This is regulated by the ECU automatically. The ECU takes notice of whether or not ECO is enabled and Traction Control is on by default. Even though it is not blinking (meaning the ESC is operating actively) it may be affecting the ECU via altered shift points, maps, advance/retard timing and valving, fuel and turbo pressure, throttle position sensor, etc.
 

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2012 Black Cherry AWD Sportage SX
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61 Posts
So when/who and where to get this ECU upgrade.... I for sure would be in line.
I have a Nissan Maxima and its so bad now that ONLY stock OEM coils would work on the car due to the ECU knowing a exact resistance/Ohm reading or would give a SES/TCS/etc... lights. Woops kinda off the subject....
 

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Drive the car normally using the manual shift. You'll see that it goes to second gear just fine. The 'missed gear' on hard acceleration must be related to the automatic upshift at max RPM.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is true, it does shift normal under lower RPM. I just feel like it automatically upshifts too early, in first gear anyway. Seems like it wants to shift at 5500, but it automatically shifts at 6000 for second to third.
 

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2012 Sportage SX FWD
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Drive the car normally using the manual shift. You'll see that it goes to second gear just fine. The 'missed gear' on hard acceleration must be related to the automatic upshift at max RPM.
What is this "automatic upshift at max RPM"? Are you saying that in manual mode, if i bump up against the rev limit it will shift up automatically? If so, i have to disagree.

My wife will call me every once and a while pissed because I bumped the shifter into manual and she thinks the transmission has messed up until she sees that it has a 1 instead of a D in the HUD. We haven't experienced it automatically shifting up in manual mode regardless of how high it revs or how much you smash on the gas.

But i have experienced it refusing to downshift to 3rd at 80 mph (goes to 4th fine, but revs up to top of power curve). Maybe this is more of a max rev/gear safety feature. So you don't accidentally downshift too low and burn out the transmission? :huh:
 

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Yes, it has automatic upshift at the redline in manual shift, along with overspeed lockout on manual downshift. Automatics have had that for many years - it simply won't let you overspeed the engine. I haven't tried to find out, but Neutral overspeed may be prevented too by a rev limiter.
So, if yours won't upshift automatically in manual, what happens when you hit the redline but still hold the gas down? Can you exceed the redline? I would bet that it will shift.
 

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2012 Sportage SX FWD
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So, if yours won't upshift automatically in manual, what happens when you hit the redline but still hold the gas down? Can you exceed the redline? I would bet that it will shift.
Why would I EVER try to do this? Do you understand what kind of harm this can do? This is not my toy, it is my primary mode of transportation. What benefit would determining this do? Would it outweigh the damage and risk of doing this to the engine?

There is no reason to EVER do this with ANY motorized device. Are you TRYING to fry the engine, turbo, top end, fuel injectors, pump, etc? Why not drive it without oil or put jet fuel in the engine? Who needs this water jacket and radiator? extra weight right?

The fuel pump on this is powered from the torque off the cam. Do you think over-pressuring your high pressure fuel rail is a good idea? max 1700psi, you want to go over that?!?

Honestly, if you drive like this and sell your car to a person, you should feel obligated (and legally required) to tell them this. Yes, it will hurt the value (if they will even buy it after knowing), but they should be aware that the previous owner RACED the engine.

And no, with all the sportmatics I've ever driven, if you kept it in 1st (or 2nd) and gunned it, it will go up to the red, then bounce back down to the top of the "safe" rpm zone then back up. Same for motorcycles, carbureted or FI. God help me if i ever feel the need to purposefully test this. I will truly be insane.

To answer your question "Can you exceed the redline?" NO, it is not possible. The ECU prevents this from occurring.
 

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Wow. What an ignorant diatribe. First, the redline on the KIA engines is very conservative. After all, they are guaranteeing it for 10/100. You will harm nothing by holding your foot down and letting it shift at 6000 - the engines can most likely do 7500 with no problem. Would you drive like that all the time? No, common sense has to prevail, but it is a very sporty vehicle even without the turbo. Obviously you have never pushed your SX anywhere close to the programmed limit or you would have known that in manual shift mode the trans will upshift just like it would in automatic mode under full throttle when the redline is hit. Honestly, you need to exercise that thing once in awhile. Do I drive around in manual shift letting it hit the limit, rather than just driving in automatic mode? No, I don't, as a rule, but I have experienced the upshift in manual mode a few times. The first time I didn't expect it, but upon reflection it was completely logical that it would.
BTW, the question 'Can you exceed the redline?' was rhetorical - obviously you can't. You owe it to yourself to experience all that the car's programming will allow, which by no means is 'racing'. 'Racing' an engine means gunning it in Neutral. Next time you're merging onto a fast road, let that thing eat! I can't believe somebody has a turbo and has never just stomped it and let it run, at least in the first three gears.
You have to realize that what we're talking about is within the parameters of normal operation, in that the car has a certain potential for acceleration that is controlled by it's programming, and you can't exceed those parameters without changing that programming or otherwise making modifications that would void the warranty. Plus, the car has a data recorder, so let's say I'm passing on a two-lane road under full throttle and something breaks - the car would be repaired under warranty because the acceptable operating conditions were not exceeded. The vehicle is expected to be able to perform at maximum-allowed levels for the duration of it's service life - not all the time, but every so often you may have the need for that maximum performance, and the manufacturer is guaranteeing it will be there by setting the parameters conservatively low. Imagine what even the EX could do with no restrictions, much less the SX! Now that would be more like racing and most likely would use up the car before it's time.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wow. What an ignorant diatribe. First, the redline on the KIA engines is very conservative. After all, they are guaranteeing it for 10/100. You will harm nothing by holding your foot down and letting it shift at 6000 - the engines can most likely do 7500 with no problem. Would you drive like that all the time? No, common sense has to prevail, but it is a very sporty vehicle even without the turbo. Obviously you have never pushed your SX anywhere close to the programmed limit or you would have known that in manual shift mode the trans will upshift just like it would in automatic mode under full throttle when the redline is hit. Honestly, you need to exercise that thing once in awhile. Do I drive around in manual shift letting it hit the limit, rather than just driving in automatic mode? No, I don't, as a rule, but I have experienced the upshift in manual mode a few times. The first time I didn't expect it, but upon reflection it was completely logical that it would.
BTW, the question 'Can you exceed the redline?' was rhetorical - obviously you can't. You owe it to yourself to experience all that the car's programming will allow, which by no means is 'racing'. 'Racing' an engine means gunning it in Neutral. Next time you're merging onto a fast road, let that thing eat! I can't believe somebody has a turbo and has never just stomped it and let it run, at least in the first three gears.
You have to realize that what we're talking about is within the parameters of normal operation, in that the car has a certain potential for acceleration that is controlled by it's programming, and you can't exceed those parameters without changing that programming or otherwise making modifications that would void the warranty. Plus, the car has a data recorder, so let's say I'm passing on a two-lane road under full throttle and something breaks - the car would be repaired under warranty because the acceptable operating conditions were not exceeded. The vehicle is expected to be able to perform at maximum-allowed levels for the duration of it's service life - not all the time, but every so often you may have the need for that maximum performance, and the manufacturer is guaranteeing it will be there by setting the parameters conservatively low. Imagine what even the EX could do with no restrictions, much less the SX! Now that would be more like racing and most likely would use up the car before it's time.
To somewhat further the idea that manufacturers are conservative with their engines, T-GDI (and equivalent) engines are a perfect example. My last car, a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo was a great example. It put out 260HP and 260LB/FT stock. Many have tuned theirs to north of 300WHP and torque and daily driven them, some rather hard, with no adverse affects.

I believe manufacturers try to find a balance of competitive performance within the segment and durability. Setting an automatic upshift at 6000rpm on a modern direct injection turbo engine and limiting boost to 17psi is definitely conservative knowing that they are capable of reliably handling more. Of course some of the parts beyond the engine (transmission and differential being 2) may be compromised by the extra power, but the engine itself can handle more.
 

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2015 Sorento EX, 2011 Sportage SX, 2000 Nissan Sentra SE
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Hi everyone, I have had the samething it will jump 2nd gear and go to 3rd. But when you come to a stop shift it in to 2nd gear, yes it will let you do that. because of the way the gears are set and the Torque comes on at a low RPM it will takeoff just find in 2nd gear. Now this is just for the SX model. I don't know about the others. I hope this helps.
 

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2012 Black Cherry AWD Sportage SX
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61 Posts
Why would I EVER try to do this? Do you understand what kind of harm this can do? This is not my toy, it is my primary mode of transportation. What benefit would determining this do? Would it outweigh the damage and risk of doing this to the engine?

There is no reason to EVER do this with ANY motorized device. Are you TRYING to fry the engine, turbo, top end, fuel injectors, pump, etc? Why not drive it without oil or put jet fuel in the engine? Who needs this water jacket and radiator? extra weight right?

The fuel pump on this is powered from the torque off the cam. Do you think over-pressuring your high pressure fuel rail is a good idea? max 1700psi, you want to go over that?!?

Honestly, if you drive like this and sell your car to a person, you should feel obligated (and legally required) to tell them this. Yes, it will hurt the value (if they will even buy it after knowing), but they should be aware that the previous owner RACED the engine.

And no, with all the sportmatics I've ever driven, if you kept it in 1st (or 2nd) and gunned it, it will go up to the red, then bounce back down to the top of the "safe" rpm zone then back up. Same for motorcycles, carbureted or FI. God help me if i ever feel the need to purposefully test this. I will truly be insane.

To answer your question "Can you exceed the redline?" NO, it is not possible. The ECU prevents this from occurring.
Wimp.... Come on it's in our nature to take thing to the limit and then some..LOL

And it has a 10yr-100000mile blow up warrentieee:lol:........
 
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