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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all,

I am wrenching on a 2001 Sportage EX, 2wd, manual, ~120k miles. I will have a few questions related to this vehicle; however, they will not all be related. I've never seen this vehicle or worked on Kia's to date. Naturally I am coming across several issues which may or not be related.

It will crank but not start. The OBD-II is also inoperative. The timing belt is good. Contact is good at battery terminals and various different grounds. I have already discovered a burnt section of the ECM board. If a photo of the board can be used to pin point what components would no longer function because of the bad ECM, I will post one.

My first specific questions are on the canister purge valve solenoid. There is a pair of bolts bound by rubber. One bolt is attached to a clip on the solenoid and the other bolts to the mount welded to the body. This rubber has dry rotted and the solenoid is just hanging in the engine compartment. I removed these bolts and scraped away the rubber to find that the bolts are slightly magnetized. What is the purpose of this? What effects would there be from them no longer being in the set relation to each other considering the rubber connection has rotted and broken apart? Do these particular bolts or fastener as it would normally be have a name?

Your all's response is greatly appreciated and thanks ahead of time. Also I can't use the search function currently due to the human check not functioning on my device so I apologize if this has been covered.

Cheers!
 

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The reported damage to the ECU explains the lack of starting and the non connection with the OBDII scanner.

You will need to first investigate and repair the cause of the ECU damage.

DO NOT install a replacement until you clear ALL faults on the input and output circuits.. You will burn the replacement.... Philip
 

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Greetings,

Welcome to the forum.

re: Canister Purge solenoid - there should be a 1/2 inch rubber bump stop on the back center of the bracket, if missing, suggest sourcing one at a hardware store parts bin & replacing it,

re: bolts magnetized - just a guess, to aid in structural integrity of the bracket assembly,

re: reattaching the Purge Solenoid to the bracket, some wide plastic zip ties through the bracket -> criss-crossed (X) around the Purge Solenoid valve -> to the bracket, providing the back rubber bump stop is present, should do it.

--
+1 on fully Q/A'ing electrical to the ECM connector before installing any replacement ECM, starting w/ the common ground point G201 -> tracing back to the ground (splice point) -> to the ECM connector,

and fully inspect & test to ensure wiring on each major component is (isolated) from ground as needed / providing good continuity, ie: ignition coil wiring, fuel injector wiring, O2 sensor wiring, MAF / TPS / ECT / IAT / knock sensor..

*Failure due to poor grounding, shorting of (ignition / fuel injection) wiring to ground, shorting of O2 sensor wiring, shorting of MAF / TPS wiring (5v circuit / engine wiring harness) have all been reported here at one time or another,

Q/A each fuse in both passenger and engine compartment fuse boxes, make note of any that are blown, which may help in narrowing down a particular circuit.. Then ECM grounds.. If any apparent rust on the ECM bracket or floor area where the connectors are located below/behind the ECM, then would also suspect and Q/A for: blocked A/C evaporator drain hose, or leak from above: remove wipers and plastic wiper grill facia to inspect..

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you both for your timely responses. 10-4 on clearing the issue prior to installing a new ECM. I feel like I'm looking for an unknown quantity of needles in a haystack.

Regarding solenoid: Sounds good. I'm hoping the ECM donor sportage still has its bracket/bump stop to replace this one. Otherwise I'll follow your advice.

Regarding electrical Q/A: (Un)Fortunately I haven't had to deal with troubleshooting much wiring before. I will go back through and double check especially the ones mentioned above.

So far:
- tightened one of the fuel pump grounds which was pretty loose due to the screw backing out some (bingo?),
- cleaned some oiled and gunked up connections in the engine compartment & alongside the transmission (questionable if these were the culprit as most was cosmetic while the pins were free and clear),
- found a 30amp fuse where a 10amp should be; however, the component it protects is functioning normally (will replace w/ proper amp fuse),
- no blown fuses inside or out (will replace main relays to be safe/sure),
- the ground from the ECM wiring harness is good and the area is initially free of rust (will inspect closer for signs of moisture as this issue started during a particular rainy week for us).

Other than the fuel pump ground, I have one other good suspicion as to the cause and would like to share my thoughts and hear your opinions on whether it is plausible.

When I pulled the carpet back to check the ECM ground, I was surprised to see that the two nuts which hold the ECM to the floorboard studs on the right side were absent. This happens to correspond exactly with where the ECM failure took place. Far right side of the board, centered between the two studs. Would you all reckon those nuts being missing hampered the ECM's ability to prevent static electricity / ground the actual ECM case? Slight vibrations of case against the threads on the stud caused a short?

I do know that correlation =/= causation, so I won't be sad if my theory is no good.
 

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Most of the circuits find their ground via the ECU, so it is possible that the failure was caused by the poor chassis ground. If so, it would be the first that I have encountered.... Philip
 

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A thorough check is highly advised. The missing nuts on the ECU indicate that it has been removed before, possibly replaced for the same issue. The casing does need to be grounded for EMI, but primary grounds are through the wiring, so missing nuts wouldn't be the cause of the issue.

Most of the times I have found a higher rated fuse put in place of a small one is because the correct fuse kept blowing. Which fuse was it? Sometimes the fuses operate more than just what they are labeled as. Examining the wiring diagrams may help if we know which circuit it is.

A bad ground on the fuel pump should have no ill effects on the ECU since the ECU only controls the fuel pump relay and not the pump itself.

As for the purge valve, no worries, it can be hanging by the hoses and still function, it's mounting is moot in terms of performance.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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I'd say put the proper (10a) fuse back in and install the ECM/ECU...
The ECM was damaged by that fuse allowing more current to flow through it.
The lable on that fuse would help us to find what circuits were effected by the idiot's decision.. If you have the correct fuses in each location you have little chance of damaging the "donor" ECM... That's what they are there for "protection". If the 10a fuse blows (which it probably will) that will tell you the problem is external of the ECM..More likely the fuel injectors or spark coils..
You can access kiatechinfo.com for wiring info or ask and I/We will download the circuits fed by that fuse with ideas of where to look next...

I just condemed a $4000.00 amplifier that the "audiophyle" listener replaced 8a fuses with 20s ...because it was suposed to "sound better" with the larger fuses.. The circuitry "blew" and protected the 20a fuses... Parts are no longer available for this amp (vertical FETS) as they (8 transistors) had to be hand picked/matched for both channels...
Lots of DUMB people out there....
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Excellent information!

The 30 amp fuse was in the "Tail" (10 amp) socket of the pass. cabin fuse box.

I have tried to access the KIA info site but the TOS pop-up always loads blank, so if you could DL those diagrams that would do me a solid.
 

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"Turn" fuse feeds the following circuits in one way or another: Turn/Hazard, Rear Defrost, Cruise Control, ETACS (ETWIS), DRL, Shift Interlock, Anti-Lock Brakes.

Sorry I don't have time to look into more details this morning. This fuse doesn't feed the primary power to all these circuits, probably just a control signal or lighting.

Does this vehicle have an aftermarket alarm or remote start installed? Improper installation of aftermarket equipment like that can cause lots and lots and lots of problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lots of DUMB people out there....
After the responses here I put my attention toward the aftermarket wire hooked up to the positive battery cable. I followed it to an inline 30 amp fuse, through the firewall, alongside the driver's side kick panel to the rear and finally ending underneath the carpet in the trunk. There it was... a hot wire just laying on the chassis. I pulled out the 30 amp inline fuse, replaced the previously mentioned 10 amp fuse, hooked up the ECM, & connected the battery. Turned the key to "On" and OBD-II is operating. Turned the key to "Start" and the Sporty started. The 10 amp fuse is still closed.

Apparently the previous owner wanted to keep the amp or speakers, so he/she cut the wires and stuffed em up under the carpet.

This hot wire was in contact with the other wires that traced back to the head unit. It was getting so hot that it was melting into the foam/tacky material glued to the chassis under the rear seats.

I think my last task will be to check under the dash and hood to make sure that hot wire hadn't melted the insulation on any wires that happened to be touching it.

This seems like the culprit as according to the FSM, the "Tail" circuit feeds the audio system. I'm assuming any short into the head unit would cause the "Tail" fuse to open. An energized chassis might also be to blame.

One question in my mind is why would this just now occur? Is it common for an ECM to resist a short for years? Or the battery for that matter...

Thanks again. All of your input was valuable and helped another Sporty get back on the road.
 

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Excellent catch. Aftermarket additions are frequently the cause of many problems in vehicles.

I just realized I need to be more awake when responding, here I was looking up wrong info trying to help. Oops.
 
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