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I would take the oil change shop to court on this one if indeed going dry is the reason for the failure.

The 1qt every 3000 miles is surely just a threshold that they consider normal, so if a customer comes in complaining that they use a quart every 5k miles, they don't have to do a repair/replacement of the engine, but if it uses more than 1qt/3k miles, then it would be considered a mechanical problem.... In practice, NO, a modern engine should NOT use 1qt/3k miles under any circumstances, barring that it has maybe 150,000 or more miles on it...
 

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@jdbsb

The Service manager stated that Kia figures that the 4 cyl engine burns off 1 quart of oil every 3000 miles. That seems like a lot. Is it?
Oil consumption cannot be calculated based on mileage, I work for a truck manufacturer and oil consumption is based on the amount of oil consumed and fuel consumed.

The formula is oil / fuel * 100, ( 3 gal oil /900 gal fuel *100 = 0.33....) the oil & fuel need to be of the same unit of measure, the allowable limit we use is anything less than 0.3.

I think you said an independent guy does your service work wouldn't he have service records... I would pursue getting service documentation and get in writing the oil cunsumption specs from Kia... It would be interesting to see if the dealer SM tis willing to put that in writing...

Again oil consumption cannot be calculated on miles as it does not account for idle time.... Only way to calculate is as I stated above...

Good luck...
 

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2013 Sorento LX V6, '03 GSX-R600, '00 Nissan Maxima SE
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Sorry to hear about your woes. Bottom line, like someone else said, if you have service records from your local mechanic, you should not be forking out any money. Stand your ground. I have a 2000 Nissan Maxima with 235k miles on it and it has NEVER burned 1 quart of oil every 3k miles. The Sorento now has never burned any oil as well, at least not enough for me to tell when I do an oil change. Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I feel obligated to respond to the past couple of posts. I live in a small rural town. As the dealership is 60 miles away and to support our local businesses, we had what we thought was a simple task performed by a local basically two-man operation. He doesn't even have computerized records. He is likely an LLC with no assets, so suing would be pointless. Even if not, he would likely have a more difficult time raising $6K than me and as I already know: winning a judgment means nothing - you still have to collect.

The real questions is where did all the oil go to. Friends have suggested that I have the breakdown of the dead engine witnessed to see if there are other possibilities. Again, no leaks known from it garaging at home and the dealer says no damage.

Standing my ground does not get my wife's car fixed and she needs it. Until it is, she will be driving my 2004 Grand Cherokee with 135K miles and that concerns me. I live in a part of the country that has very cold winters. We live in the "country" and she is a very busy lady.

I have learned several lessons as a result of this. The most important is that Russian proverb that President Reagan repeated "Trust but Verify".
 

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I would take the oil change shop to court on this one if indeed going dry is the reason for the failure.

The 1qt every 3000 miles is surely just a threshold that they consider normal, so if a customer comes in complaining that they use a quart every 5k miles, they don't have to do a repair/replacement of the engine, but if it uses more than 1qt/3k miles, then it would be considered a mechanical problem.... In practice, NO, a modern engine should NOT use 1qt/3k miles under any circumstances, barring that it has maybe 150,000 or more miles on it...
How can you take oil change shop to court if the owner hasn't checked the oil in 7500 miles and you might do a little research on what manufactures consider excessive oil consumption G.M. considers 1qt per 1000 miles as acceptable as most other manufactures. I don't agree but that's the facts.
 

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@dbsd

Don't mistake my comments as a suggestion to go after the local mechanic.... Just assumed that as in all business practice records must be kept for a minimum amount of time... If you trust this mechanic then make him an alley not an adversary....

The bigger point, go after the dealer that represents Kia.... I think they are giving you a BS story.... Oil just doesn't disappear, if its burnt then make them show you & your mechanic where the leak path was... Rings , valve seals??? Make them put in writing the allowable oil consumption and how it is calculated....

I deal with these kind of issues on a regular basis (from the corporate side though) and know that the customer can get these issues resolved but needs the dealer on his/her side...

I'm not sure you have this in your case....
 

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The Service manager stated that Kia figures that the 4 cyl engine burns off 1 quart of oil every 3000 miles.
Nonsense. My 4 cyl. Kia engine burns too little to notice in 7,500 miles. Perhaps a quart in 3k considered "normal" so they can wriggle out of warranty repairs. It certainly is not normal for most of us.

I'd still work to get this covered under the warranty. Get the local mechanic on record about previous oil levels when she took it in for the oil changes. Hire an independent mechanic to look for a leak. It is possible the indie mechanic's guy screwed up and either caused a leak or didn't fill it correctly--in that case the problem is the mechanic's, not yours nor the warranty's.
 

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Nonsense. My 4 cyl. Kia engine burns too little to notice in 7,500 miles. Perhaps a quart in 3k considered "normal" so they can wriggle out of warranty repairs. It certainly is not normal for most of us.

I'd still work to get this covered under the warranty. Get the local mechanic on record about previous oil levels when she took it in for the oil changes. Hire an independent mechanic to look for a leak. It is possible the indie mechanic's guy screwed up and either caused a leak or didn't fill it correctly--in that case the problem is the mechanic's, not yours nor the warranty's.
well its not what you think or what I think is normal and I don't know how you come up with your figures on what is normal but what counts is what KIA thinks is normal or excessive give them a CALL


CUSTOMER SUPPORT

We want you to have the type of driving experience that makes you look forward to getting behind the wheel of your Kia. So, if there’s ever anything we can do to help, give us a call at 1-800-333-4KIA (4542).
 

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Oil consumption cannot be calculated based on mileage, I work for a truck manufacturer and oil consumption is based on the amount of oil consumed and fuel consumed.

The formula is oil / fuel * 100, ( 3 gal oil /900 gal fuel *100 = 0.33....) the oil & fuel need to be of the same unit of measure, the allowable limit we use is anything less than 0.3.

I think you said an independent guy does your service work wouldn't he have service records... I would pursue getting service documentation and get in writing the oil cunsumption specs from Kia... It would be interesting to see if the dealer SM tis willing to put that in writing...

Again oil consumption cannot be calculated on miles as it does not account for idle time.... Only way to calculate is as I stated above...

Good luck...
I understand what you're saying and it makes sense logically, but that is not how manufacturers spec out the acceptable tolerance for oil consumption... A friend of mine went through this with Audi when his late model Audi A4 was consuming 1 qt/1,000 miles and they said this was within their spec (fair warning for potential Audi buyers....). He got rid of the Audi for a Hyundai.
 

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@ZeroTX

That's nuts to think they use some arbitrary figure based on mileage.... I would suspect that the qts / mile figures are what they say.... and do an actual calculation when the engineers are actually performing durability testing.
 

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The quarts per so-many-thousand miles is the commonly used standard for gasoline engines even if it isn't precise.

The thing is that I don't recall ANY posting here about excessive oil consumption at all in the last 2 years or so.

The small local shop needs to be involved. If the error was theirs, they can get an engine at shop cost, give free labor (if they erred they can work nights & weekends making it right) and if you need to pay part, it'll cost you less.
 

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Inexcusable"? I see by your profile that you are a long time mechanic. Maybe, to you it is but not all of us are mechanics.

I'm not sure, though, why you feel compelled to bad-mouth folks who are just trying to get some information.

P.S. I did check the manual and it says one should check every time you fill up with gas so point taken.
Please stop whining... it sounds like you really screwed up by not doing some simple PM which MOST responsible owners do on a regular basis.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
The quarts per so-many-thousand miles is the commonly used standard for gasoline engines even if it isn't precise.

The thing is that I don't recall ANY posting here about excessive oil consumption at all in the last 2 years or so.

The small local shop needs to be involved. If the error was theirs, they can get an engine at shop cost, give free labor (if they erred they can work nights & weekends making it right) and if you need to pay part, it'll cost you less.
Sounds like a reasonable approach but I've been told by the dealership that it will void my warranty.

P.S. These retirees are a tough bunch and have a very different concept of the term "whining" than I do. I wonder what they think insulting people accomplishes.
 

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We need to fulfill the obligations in the owner's manual and warranty booklet for the warranty to remain in force. If we fail in the requirements placed on us, the warranty for only that part that was damaged is not in force. There's a lot of chatter about "voiding the warranty." When it happens, it is only on the part in question, not the whole car's warranty. So-called extended warranties are another matter. They are legally not warranties. They are extended service contracts (plans, etc.). Under contract law both parties must follow the contract for it to remain in force. If you are dealing with an extended "warranty" and it says all work must be done in a Kia dealership, then that's that. The real warranty, the original factory warranty, gives the consumer more protection under federal warranty law.

Work by an auto repair shop licensed to do that business in your state does not render a warranty void. It transfers the warranty on the work the shop did to the shop if they offer any written warranty and any protection offered under your state's law. The new engine the shop buys from the dealership will come with a warranty from Kia, and if the shop correctly installs it, you have some coverage. In any case, if the little shop's people made a mistake, they owe you something--they owe you a lot.

Ask the shop for more info as well as clarifying everything with the service manager (not just one of the service writers, but the actual manager of the service department) at the dealership.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Don't give up just yet... AND DON'T pay what they want...

You might check with cobra259 here about this posted on ebay...
2013 Kia Sportage 2 4L 4CYL Engine Motor 1K LKQ 81777206 | eBay

It's a 2.4L engine from a 2013 Sportage with only 1k miles on it... Even with shipping it's under $2000.... I would think the basic engine would be the same and possibly some bolt on parts may be different... Even "if" they want more for shipping it is still cheaper to buy this and have an independent mechanic do the swap (probably around $1000)..

I would suggest getting an independent foreign car mechanic to look at the damage and their evidence of lack oil changes...
Dave
 

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'15 Soul 1.6L, '08 Sedona 3.8L, '03 Ford Escape 3.0L
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Agree with @DavesSpectra

And to throw my 2 cents in again...

On pg 12 of the 2103 Kia warranty manual under the heading Maintenance Records it states:

"You should retain maintenance records since it may be
necessary in some instances for you to prove that the
required maintenance has been performed. The
“Scheduled Maintenance Record” beginning on Page 34
should be filled in when regular maintenance is
performed. Keep all receipts and make them available in
case questions rise about the services requested and
provided."

Now the manual says in varying ways how maintenance needs to be followed, documented, etc....

However the key word in the paragraph above "should", this means that they will deny, push-back, and try to get out of the warranty in any way they can, however the manufacturer or in this case the rep or agent of the manufacturer i.e. the dealer needs to prove that the failure is a result of "lack of maintenance" not a lack of maintenance records as Kias warranty states you should retain records not you must retain records.

You really need to push this issue with the dealer principal, request a meeting and force them to either throw you out (not literally) or bring this to resolution by working with you in a fair & equitable manner.

They need to prove to you that the root cause of the failure was directly linked to the lack of maintenance records and be sure to use that phrase and not just lack of maintenance as the 2 are different in their meanings.

I think you can win this if you key in on what the dealer is stating as the root cause of the failure, if they cannot prove it was something you did or did not do regardless of the paper trail they are legally obligated to uphold the warranty as stated in the warranty agreement...

It'll be a heck of a fight but it can be won... Be persistent and professional, I have had the pleasure of dealing with issues like you are having for a number of years, prior to my current position I was in a warranty technical material analysis center for a truck manufacturer.

Good luck..
 

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LKQ is legit. I'd probably go that route with mileage that low... I went through a similar salvage place for a 4.6L SOHC V8 for my 2001 Mustang. I got a 2009 Crown Victoria engine for it (same engine, different bolt-on parts, so swapped from the Mustang engine).
 

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LKQ is found all over the USA (and I believe Canada)..and have "standards" the local salvage yards must meet...

That engine at that price won't last long on ebay and you have paypal to back you on your purchase (I have used them more than once to get my money back on bad sellers)..

I bought a 2008 Hyundai Accent as salvage for $2100 with 27k mile on it for my son through ebay and hundreds of other items...NEVER got burned because of paypal's money back guarantees.

We (kia-forums members) won't lead you wrong and stand to gain nothing from helping you monetarily... We just like helping each other!
Dave
 

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Kia Sorento 2013
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Sorento no oil on sign of oil leak engine toast

What you describe is exactly what happened to me. I have my oil changed every 3-5K miles. During that time the engine should not consume any oil. There was no evidence of any leaks yet the engine had NO OIL! This is impossible. Something in the engine failed no warning lights no check engine lights NOTHING to indicate oil was low or absent! Mulitple failures in this engine cause a catastrophic failure that was due to faulty system and manufacturing. Anyone who has experienced this problem view the info below!

There is a class action law suite against Kia filed June 2, 2016. lawsuit against Kia seeking to represent owners and lessees of Kia Optima (2011-14), Sportage (2011-14) and Sorentos (2012-14) with 2.0L and 2.4L GDI engines. The lawsuit, which was filed on June 2, 2016, alleges that metal shavings were left in the engine of the vehicles after they were manufactured. This defect may lead to complete engine failure and is not the fault of the consumer. Kia is typically not covering the costs to repair the engines under the terms of its warranties. We believe they should be, which is why we are vigorously pursuing this litigation. Call 909.557.1250 to join suit.
 
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