Kia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I purchased a Proceed 1.6 cdri 113 bhp in April 2008. It's been dealer serviced from new. During approx the last year it produces a 'belt' of smoke out of the exhaust on startup just about ecery morning. The boot/rear end is constantly covered in soot 'dots' and needs washing off. It has been in to the dealer a few times and everything is found 'ok'. It runs fine. The ECU was remapped a few months ago to prevent the 'hiccup' it used to have on accelerator use/bnack off/on. I was told this might cure the problem but it hasn't. I'll get it checked out at the next service again (due April 2012) BUT WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE CAN ADVISE/HAD THIS PROBLEM THEMSELVES. It done 29000 miles from new and has had a very mixed short/long driving history. It runs fine apart from the smoke. HELP !
 

·
Registered
0858 Kia Pro_Cee'd 3 1.6 CRDi, Red
Joined
·
191 Posts
If it's only done 29000 miles give your dealer some more hassle, my question to them would be: did it smoke when it was new? No!
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
Buy some of this. You can get it cheap on eBay for about £10.50 delivered. It really does work. My Ceed was smoking at only 7,000 miles and using this solved it. Then it started smoking again a few weeks ago (not done 29K miles), so I've just got my second bottle and will use it for a few months. Others have found the same too. Yet it's not because of blocked injectors as some have had their injectors replaced by dealers trying to fix the problem.
The smoking issue I've (and others) have experienced is probably due to the fuel quality and if you stick to decent fuel like Shell, you probably never get the smoke.
This is mine when it starts smoking..

However, your issue doesn't sound like the same sort of smoke. But its well worth trying for £10. Use it at double strength on the first tank. I was amazed how well it works.
One bottle has lasted me well over a year, as I only add it now when I fill with supermarket fuel. Then it ran out some months ago and then the smoking returned. So now on my second bottle and since using it again, I've not had any smoking. I've proved many times now that it works.
 

·
Registered
Kia Ceed, MGTF, Various Jeeps new and old, FIAT 500
Joined
·
268 Posts
A diesel with 29k on it should not smoke period. No addative should ever be needed. The dealer should sort this.

But when will people realise that there is no difference or minimal.between fuels. The supermarkets get their fuel from the same refinaries as the brand garages.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using AutoGuide.com App
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
But when will people realise that there is no difference or minimal.between fuels. The supermarkets get their fuel from the same refinaries as the brand garages.
They do get the fuel from the same place, but it is different. The base fuel is all the same, but the additives are added to the fuel when it's put into the tanker. Each brand of fuel have their own additive or mix. That's what defines it as "Tesco" diesel or "Esso" diesel (for example).

There is a big difference in some of these mixtures. And adding 1ml per litre of Millers EcoMax to your diesel does make a difference and therefore backs up how such a small quantity of additives do make a big difference on the quality of the fuel.
I didn't believe it at first, but I've well and truly proved it myself over the 18 months ownership of the Ceed. Also at the same time my father had problems with their BMW X3 3.0D just outside it's warranty and the BMW dealer wanted to replace the turbo and sensors, so he took it an independent specialist and they told him the problems were down to the fuel quality and told him to use premium fuels or if they continued using supermarket fuels, use an additive also. Reading up on this issue, it seems that the modern Euro V engines are far more sensitive to the fuel quality, hence why I've never experienced such problems with my previous vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
I have to disagree. Had diesels now for 17 years, 6 in total. Only use "branded" fuel when there are no supermarkets handy i.e. when we are on holiday. In well over 200,000 miles I have never had a problem.

All fuel sold in the UK is to BS EN590 by law, this includes both branded and supermarket. It is what manufacturers programme their engines to use. The so called "branded fuels have additives in them according to their sellers and these may have benefits but the absence of them does not make fuel sub-standard. When I bought my car the dealer filled itt up at the local Tesco (their closest garage) where they have an account, when we bought the Kia the dealer filled it with Jet which is not their closest garage and Jet is hardly a premium brand.

I will continue to use supermarket fuel and save between 6 and 10 pence a litre. When we are on holiday and use branded fuel the car runs no better (or worse) and does no more miles to the gallon on a tank to tank fill up. As I say this has been exactly the same for 17 years and 6 cars which is enough proof for me that all the scaremongering is total rubbish. If it were true that supermarket fuel were substandard trading standards would have hit them hard years ago and there would have been thousands of cases of broken cars in the press, only ones I can remember were the ones a couple of years ago when silicone got into diesel I think.

Also remember that all manufacturers tell you (some in the handbook) not to use fuel (or oil additives) since they may invalidate your warranty as they are not approved modifications.
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
Do some reading on the net and you'll find the facts. There are differences to the diesel additives with the different brands and these additives and dyes are added to the fuel when it is being loaded into the tanker. All fuel meets the basic BS standard of course.

In my 26 years of driving, I've never noticed a difference between supermarket fuels and the likes of Shell or BP. That was until I got the Ceed and the smoking is definitely linked to the diesel quality and fuel from our local Tesco and Sainsbury make it return, whereas it doesn't if I use Shell. It takes many weeks/months for this to happen, but I've seen a pattern now. I now add EcoMax when I fill up with supermarket fuel only and the problem has gone.

If you can save 10p per litre buying supermarket fuel, then were do you live as I'll come to fill up there. Round here the difference is around 2p. That is until you get on a motorway, but that's another story.
 

·
Registered
Kia Ceed
Joined
·
281 Posts
Totally agree with ceed3. I would not consider buying overpriced branded fuel when there is a supermarket selling fuel to the correct British Standard close by. Never had a problem, just filled up at Asda where there was a queue, BP 200 yards away forecourt empty, 6p per litre difference. With money off voucher wifey paid £1.287 at Tesco last week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
My car was serviced by a main dealer this morning, the invoice lists under sundries, 1 x emission control additive. I wonder what that is?
 

·
Registered
Kia Ceed
Joined
·
281 Posts
My car was serviced by a main dealer this morning, the invoice lists under sundries, 1 x emission control additive. I wonder what that is?
It will be a product from the same manufacturer as engine flush that is sold at hugely inflated prices by garages to customers who do not see the tiny notice at the back of the service desk telling you they will use it unless you tell them no to. Been there, done that, got refund.

Its snake-oil.
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
Like screen wash top up.
I've purposely brimmed my washer bottle before taking a car in for service (before Kia days) and still the main dealer sells me screen wash!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
It was only priced at £1.00, as were the top up fluids. I can live with that. The most expensive item was the oil at £29odd for 5.3 litres, (the invoice is in the car and Mrs deeps is out with it). It was a second service and the total cost was £163 incVAT

It included the underside damage, underseal, and paintwork inspection (not on the invoice) but marked up in the service book for the perforation warranty.
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
It was only priced at £1.00, as were the top up fluids. I can live with that. The most expensive item was the oil at £29odd for 5.3 litres, (the invoice is in the car and Mrs deeps is out with it). It was a second service and the total cost was £163 incVAT
That was cheap. Cheap oil too.
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
I was even luckier - at my first service, they forgot to add the oil onto the invoice, so it was only £99+VAT. It included other parts like the service kit, pollen filter and the screenwash at 99p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
You were very lucky, the Fully Synthetic C3 spec oil required for MY2011 CRDI's with DPF's was over £50.
I now have the invoice to hand.

5/40 C3 synthetic diesel oil £29.15 (last service £33.00)
Labour £121.26
Waste charge £2.99
Screenwash £0.95
Sump plug gasket £0.88
Oil filter £8.69

The emission control additive is on the workshop list of sundries but is not on the invoice.

Edit:- The car was washed and vacuumed out.
 

·
Registered
Kia Ceed, MGTF, Various Jeeps new and old, FIAT 500
Joined
·
268 Posts
The idea that additives are added at the tanker is a myth spread by fuel brands. It does not happen go to a refinery where the fuel is prepared - they are generally not even owned by any of the fuel brands but specialist refining companies such as Petroplus etc. The tankers even if branded do not belong to the petrol companies either but contractors, who work for the supermarkets also. While you see Tesco branded tankers I am not sure I have seen ones for Waitrose, Asda and Morrisons and the smaller supermarkets like the CoOp who all sell cheap fuel. The Sainsburys I visit in the UK is filled up by BP branded tankers which makes sense as they are the companies that set-up Nectar.

Some years ago Car Mechanics magazine did analysis (proper lab analysis mass spectrometer etc and found that branded and unbranded fuel and oils had no significant difference).

A web search does not find real evidence but unfounded speculation. The fact that there is no definitive evidence and no advertising (which has to be true by law) that claims branded fuel is better or even different than "own brand" I take as evidence that there is no difference. This is the reason I believe why some have created premium brands fuel which actually do make claims (that must by law be correct) that they have a different formulation.

Finally in the capitalist world is anyone suggesting that Shell/BP/etc make a fuel that is above the minimum standard, and because of that that they have to sell it at a higher price than say Asda so losing business when that the majority of the drivers would not notice if there is any difference. They would either lower the price or make a bigger profit.
 

·
Registered
Ceed 1.6crdi ('07)
Joined
·
648 Posts
Do some reading on the net and you'll find the facts. There are differences to the diesel additives with the different brands and these additives and dyes are added to the fuel when it is being loaded into the tanker.
Would you provide some links you have found? Just make sure we can separate anecdote from fact.
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Kia Ceed SW 3 CRDi, 2009 Kia Soul 2 CRDi
Joined
·
856 Posts
The idea that additives are added at the tanker is a myth spread by fuel brands. It does not happen go to a refinery where the fuel is prepared - they are generally not even owned by any of the fuel brands but specialist refining companies such as Petroplus etc.
I do agree with much of what you say, but from what I've read this statement above is wrong. When fuel is loaded into the delivery tankers (or sometimes before) they add additives & dyes and this mix is different for some brands/retailers. I read about this a lot when I first got the smoking problem with my car about 14 months ago. Many years ago I seem to remember watching a TV program too that showed this too. I've read comments on other forums from guys who actually work at the refineries and they confirm this is the procedure. I am no expert and can only be led from what I read.
A quick Google search now found that this and this may be the equipment they use.
A refinery or terminal is owned by company like Petroplus, they can sell their fuel to any retailer but that doesn't mean the all get the same stuff. Most stations sell two grades of petrol and two grades of diesel. I suspect each of the fuel types is exactly the same stuff and it is only the added additives which makes it the different grade. So why is it so unbeleiveable that a Shell diesel is fractionally different to a Sainsbury diesel? I'm sure much of it is the same and I suspect the differences in additives is very small, but I am led to believe that some retailers have have different additive mixes.

I am convinced now that I have proved that there is a difference between some brands of diesel with my own car now too and until 14 months ago, I wouldn't have believed that there was enough difference (or any difference) between the fuels to notice either.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top