[Zuta-Munja]

Dear all,
first post here.

I am the proud owner of a 2022 KIA Rio (with base colour, yellow, yes!), Style fitting, Petrol 1.2L 84hp (no hybrid, no GPL).
I got it on March 9th, 2022 and, since then, have had very few and minor issues with its mechanics. It has overall been a great experience.
This morning I had a booked appointment for changing my summer tyres with winter ones but, when trying to start the engine, it just didn't start.
The HUD was all working as expected, battery was good, and turning the key was making the proper starting-up noise. There was no ignition, though, and the engine never started.
I called road assistance, they came and towed me and the car up to the nearest Kia center, the one where I had bought it.
After almost two hours of analysis, they told me the issue was that cylinders were full of petrol.
They unbuilt everything, cleaned the cylinders, dried the injectors, started it on the bench, everything was fine after that.
They said—even though using a quite rude and mocking tone—that the car's engine was "sleepy", that the particle filter has 2 grams of residue instead of the 0.8 expected grams, and that my not "pulling the gears" (as we say in Italy, which should be getting the engine's RPMs on the high side) could have been the cause for that.

Now, a few considerations:

1. the car behaved beautifully until yesterday evening. It stopped just fine, and this morning had petrol in the cylinders? Strange...
2. I was recommended by the salesman in March not to ever pass 3.000 RPMs for the first 1.000km. Now the car has 7500km and I have pushed beyond that many times (never beyond 4.000, though).
3. The user manual says that the driver should not stress the gears too much in the car's first year of life
4. The on-board computer keeps suggesting a higher gear constantly. At 10-15 km/h I get suggested 2nd gear (fine to me), at 25-30 km/h 3rd gear is suggested (too early for my taste), at 45-50 km/h 4th gear is suggested (way too early!). 5th gear is already suggested at 60 km/h (unacceptable...). I am a trained classical musician, and when 17 years ago I got my driving license I learned to listen to the engine for when it is asking me for the next gear. In my experience with previous cars, I would usually get 2nd = 20, 3rd = 40, 4th = 60, 5th = 80, or the whereabouts. My experience with this Rio is that the first three gears are very "short", and then the fourth gear is extremely long. That is that I feel the engine asking for 3rd gear already at 30-35, 4th gear at 50-55, and then no need for 5th gear up to at least 90-95 km/h (that is when the engine goes to 3.000 RPM more or less).

This is to say that, if one listens to the onboard computer, in theory, one should have petrol in the cylinders every day. If one doesn't, then the Kia support will probably tell the driver they should have. The user manual keeps saying that anything the user does outside of what is written in there is on their responsibility.
One extra thing they said was:

Your average fuel consumption is 1 litre every 21 km! It is too low, you are putting the engine to sleep.

I found this ridiculous. This car has an excellent fuel consumption, but I have never kept it too low for fear of consuming too much.

Since they said that the CPU didn't have any error, nor showed any issues with any mechanical or electronic part, they admitted not having idea why petrol had ended up there and so were probably just frustrated and felt like shouting at me just because.
Do you have any idea of why this could have happened?
I would appreciate any input or suggestion.
Thank you very much
ZM

 

[Zuta-Munja]

Dear all,
to avoid future issues with what left me on foot last week (see my previous post on cylinders full of fuel), I would like to use a fuel additive as I have read that new modern engines strongly benefit from that.
I have a Rio 2022, petrol fuel, Smartstream G1.2 engine. Is there an official fuel additive recommended by KIA themselves?
If not, what would you suggest and why?
I live in the EU, please suggest a product available here.
Thank you

 

[leo42.2875]

If your cylinder was fuel loaded, that would indicate a stuck open fuel injector. any top tier fuel should have enough detergent to maintain the injectors.

Were the injectors serviced to rectify the issue..??

 

[Zuta-Munja]

Here in Italy they do not disclose too much of what they do on your car when they take it away in the back of the service.
They said they unbuilt cylinders, injectors, cleaned everything, built it back together and it was working again. They had no idea why the fuel got into there because, quote, "the computer didn't tell us anything was wrong". My old uncle says I may have inadvertently pressed the accelerator pedal when the car engine was off. Could that, if it happened at all, have caused this?
Where I live (ordinary town, 20k people) most fuel distributors have just one diesel and one petrol offering. Some have two of each, with the top choice labelled something like "Plus" "Ultra" "Max", whatever, and about 10-15% more expensive per litre. So, an additive may still be the way to go.

 

[leo42.2875]

The injectors are pulsed by the ECU, so pressing the gas pedal with the engine off would not trigger the FI..

 

[Zuta-Munja]

The injectors are pulsed by the ECU, so pressing the gas pedal with the engine off would not trigger the FI..

...any idea then how cylinders could have gotten filled with fuel on their own overnight?

 

[ron1004]

...any idea then how cylinders could have gotten filled with fuel on their own overnight?

Fuel injectors not shutting off good - fuel rail still has pressure when the engine is shut off, and that bleeds through the bad seating injectors into the cylinders.

 

[Zuta-Munja]

Fuel injectors not shutting off good - fuel rail still has pressure when the engine is shut off, and that bleeds through the bad seating injectors into the cylinders.

Thank you.
Could that be anything that I have done with my way of driving the car? The official KIA center tried to put it that way since they couldn't understand what was not working, nor the computer was telling them anything. Why are they so reliant on what the computer tells them?

 

[ron1004]

It's worldwide problem dealerships have, finding well qualified competent staff, in addition to modern vehicles have become fairly complex.

If Kia can prove that contaminated fuel caused the issue, there'll be no warranty cover.

We don't know what products are available in your location, but if you can find Techron it worth a try using it for a tank or two.

Techron Fuel Additive | Kia Forum (kia-forums.com)

 

[Zuta-Munja]

Techron doesn't seem to be available in Italy.
I will ask to the dealer what they suggest.
I didn't know that (involuntarily, of course) using contaminated fuel would not be covered by warranty.
How would the user defend him/herself? Apart from refuelling from well-known dealers (in my case Q8, ENI, TotalERG, IP, ..., in this order of preference), what can one do?
I have a KASKO coverage for the first four years of life of the car, hope that would count—but mostly I hope this doesn't happen again.

 

[ron1004]

I didn't know that (involuntarily, of course) using contaminated fuel would not be covered by warranty.

That is standard the world over - your claim is with the supplier of contaminated fuel, not the vehicle manufacturer.

How would the user defend him/herself? Apart from refuelling from well-known dealers (in my case Q8, ENI, TotalERG, IP, ..., in this order of preference), what can one do?
I have a KASKO coverage for the first four years of life of the car, hope that would count—but mostly I hope this doesn't happen again.

It is always good practice to purchase fuel from reliable (well-known) sources.

No warranty provider is going to cover effects of contaminated fuel.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Using fuel from only reliable and well-known sources is just common sense. Here in the US, I only frequent brand names that offer TOP TIER gas.

 

[Zuta-Munja]

Understood.
In any case, if the dealer (KIA in this case) would discover and be able to prove that the effect was due to contaminated fuel, those proofs would make the claim with the fuel supplier straightforward.

 

[leo42.2875]

...any idea then how cylinders could have gotten filled with fuel on their own overnight?

If your cylinder was fuel loaded, that would indicate a stuck open fuel injector. any top tier fuel should have enough detergent to maintain the injectors.

Were the injectors serviced to rectify the issue..??

 

[Zuta-Munja]

A small update:

• called KIA Customer Service, they told me to ask an authorised center to avoid damages that would not be covered by warranty
• called the dealer where I bought the car and where it was serviced last week and asked for an advice on an additive: they told me they use none.
• called another dealer, they told me they use the official one by KIA, and that I can buy it from them if I want
• called yet another dealer, they asked what the problem was, said they don't think the issue was with the fuel or that an additive may help. They advised not to use any.

I will keep researching. Any feedback appreciated.

 

[ron1004]

• called another dealer, they told me they use the official one by KIA, and that I can buy it from them if I want

I will keep researching. Any feedback appreciated.

You've found a source for the fuel additive, and its been recommended that you only buy fuel from a trustworthy reliable source - what other feedback is there to offer?

 

[Zuta-Munja]

You've found a source for the fuel additive, and its been recommended that you only buy fuel from a trustworthy reliable source - what other feedback is there to offer?

Well ... every source said different things ... if you don't have anything to say fine for me.

 

[leo42.2875]

What about the testing, have you done an injector leak-down test ?

 

[Zuta-Munja]

What about the testing, have you done an injector leak-down test ?

Whatever the service did, they didn't tell me beside cleaning and testing. They know that, if you know, you may not use them anymore ... or maybe it's just their paranoia