TOO many numbers in the code, which one should we ignore?..

.... Philip

Maybe P0402, excessive EGR flow, (EGR stuck open)

 

Ugh... sorry about that. Code is P0422 catalyst efficiency below normal (bank 1)

 

Highly recommend pulling the pre-Cat converter off the exhaust manifold <-> and front pipe and -physically inspecting- the ceramic catalyist media inside for any missing material / media cracking, -before- throwing a lot of time and $$$ at changing various engine parts..

In short, verify the pre-Cat is good first.

If not..

You will want to drop and clean the Main Cat, to push out any collected material from outlet (back) towards inlet (front/motor) side.. Blow it out w/ compressed air first, soak w/ dish soap & water / use garden hose water pressure rinse out. if still suspect.

* The symptoms you describe can have several causes, -including- above, pulling the pre-Cat to verify may sound extreme, but verifying this part first will save you time & $$$ / help you locate the cause of the issue..

 

Thank you for the advise GottaCruise. Should be interesting. What about my previous question about the TPS? Is it doubtful that if that sensor is going out, it would cause these problems?

 

Sure, if the sensor is failing intermittently / sending bad data to the ECM, the vehicle will not run correctly. (If it was truly borked, you would be getting a P0122 or P0124 DTC code, which would require voltage testing @ the TPS, resistance and short testing between the TPS connector and ECM, and wire testing to the Chassis Acceleration and Fuel Tank Pressure sensors, which are on the same 5v line as the TPS.. Depending on code.)

IIRC on the OBDII scanning software here, TPS reads 11% at idle, and adjusts upward based on pedal position.. Up to 100% / WOT.

(In other words, what Galf said.)

 

You can easily check the throttle position sensor with an OBD II scanner.

 

Thanks Galf. Wasn't sure if a bad TPS would set off a code or not. From your response I am going to assume that it should have its own code.

 

Question; how does your computer differentiate between a lying tps versus you pressing the gas pedal?

Be careful with codes, I've sold a lot of sensors to a lot of people just to end up pulling it in the shop a few days later for a service customer that used to be a parts customer.

 

Deerock, I don't know the answer. Really not sure what you mean by your post. This code I'm getting is tied into the cat somehow. Something is making the cat not run properly and In turn that's what's making the car shut off and stumble. The last thing I want to do is just throw parts at it.

 

Rather than stumble around guessing, connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER and run a full diagnostics including a burn/pressure test on the CAT.

A functioning CAT should read >100* higher on exit and have <2.5psi back pressure @ 2000rpm....

... Philip

 

Galf and GottaCruise thank you for the info. I understand what you are saying.
Mr. Phillip I see what you are saying too.
Problem is I don't have one of those gizmos in my arsenal yet. Like always, $$$ is an issue.

Either way, I'm gonna start on it tomorrow morning. Someone mentioned discoloration of the cat, are we talking about some sort of bluish/brownish tint? Like a sort of burnt color? I will look also for more vacuum leaks.

Is it possible for this to be happening if the number 2 O2 sensor (downstream?) is bad? The print out I received from Oreilly's mentioned it.

 

can also check the tps with a volt meter. Check the resistance and see if there are any dead spots in the sweep. 25 bucks for live data/code reading/clearing is worth it.

 

If you have an android phone or tablet, get an ELM327 OBDII module ($12.00)(bluetooth or WiFi), combined with a free copy of "TORQUE" and you have a LDS in your arsenal...
One miss diagnosed sensor will put you back $$$ many times more...

Spend the $$, and get the tests done.. Cannot help if you do not supply data...

... Philip

 

Philip's right, you can't tell the condition of the Pre-Cat converter by outside appearance, almost all will be a burnt / dark / blue color..

you either need to test exhaust system back-pressure (and manifold / exit temps.) like Philip described,

or physically remove the Pre-Cat converter and visually inspect the top & bottom of the ceramic media ("honeycomb chamber") to verify it is intact..

re: B1S2, no, that will not make the vehicle run poorly / stumble, it's only to monitor Catalyst system condition.

 

Well....Haven't been able to get to the pre cat. Started yesterday morning, I only have so much time. Bolts are all rusted and seized. Will try again later date.

I was able to check the tps. I keep going back to this because Its kinda acting like our Hyundai did when it's tps was out.

I used the info from this http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1993-2002-sportage/57504-tps.html

fully closed voltage checked at .49 to .50
fully open was at 4.18
These readings are off just a hair, but is it enough to justify a new sensor.

The other test, not so sure:
Resistance fully closed was at 1.67. Chart says should be under 1
Fully opened, and NO change whatsoever. Meter stayed at 1.67. Chart says should be approx. .5
Whaddya think?
I tried these two tests several times, same results each time.

 

fully closed voltage checked at .49 to .50
fully open was at 4.18
These readings are off just a hair, but is it enough to justify a new sensor.

The other test, not so sure:
Resistance fully closed was at 1.67. Chart says should be under 1
Fully opened, and NO change whatsoever. Meter stayed at 1.67. Chart says should be approx. .5
Whaddya think?
I tried these two tests several times, same results each time.

Must have been something amiss with your attempt to measure the resistance - was it unplugged for this?

Anyway, the Voltage readings are in range, so would not cause issues.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-Mini...iagnostic-scan-tool-/261993053257?hash=item3d0000bc49&item=261993053257&vxp=mtr
I got one of those for $10 shipped, ... took less than a week for delivery


http://www.kia-forums.com/do-yourself/71153-obdii-diagnostics-scanner-2.html#post1159313

 

You resemble a Jack Russel, sniffing at a rat hole while the rats escape via an alternate tunnel... This is not your other Hyundai vehicle!!

Get to the point and diagnose properly....

... Philip

 

So now I'm a dog huh? Or maybe I just don't understand your attempt at humor. Alrighty then!

Mr. Phillip, I AM trying to. I have a few hours in the mornings before I go to work to look at this vehicle. The removal and inspection of the pre cat was going to turn into a several hour/day thing for me. Even then, some of those days my son needs the vehicle to get to his job which in turn limits my time even more. I would like nothing more than to get this thing up and running properly. So, if you cant or wont answer my question about the tps, please refrain from name calling.
You sir, seem to have a vast knowledge about these vehicles, I admire that. Your mannerisms, however, can use a slight tweek. You come off as being a pretentious prick.
Not all of us have access to all the equipment that is needed. Not all of us have the knowledge you possess, that is why we come to these forums. If this post bans me from this forum, so be it, there are several others.
Back to my previous post.
I checked the tps to get it out of the way. For my own satisfaction. So, can anyone chime in on the tps question?
thx

 

If you have an android phone or tablet, get an ELM327 OBDII module ($12.00)(bluetooth or WiFi), combined with a free copy of "TORQUE"

Spend the $$ and do the tests, report findings, cannot help if you do not supply complete data...

... Philip

 

Thank you again. I'll keep hacking away at it.

 

Was not calling you name,

Jack Russels by nature get fixated on a scent, to the detriment of the hunt, forget the TPS for now until we have the whole picture...

.... Philip

 

Basic OBDII test

First confirm engine timing.. Then..

Provided the back pressure test verified the CATs as OK (taken at front O2 bung,<3psi @2500rpm)

time to connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER.

COLD engine, (KOnEOff)
AIT (air temp)and ECT(coolant temp) must be with in 2% of ambient temperature, verified with IR gun.
TPS, 0% at stop and rise smooth and steady as throttle is advanced
MAF, 0% with no air flow
Battery, 12.6vdc, fully charged.

Start engine.
ECT, must start to rise and attain and hold 180* at idle and 2000rpm
CL (ECU) must maintain at idle and 2000rpm
MAF, small reading at idle and rise steadily as throttle advances.
O2, (B1S1, precat), must start actively switching with no lean/rich bias...
LTFT, (long term fuel trim), close to 0%, +/-2 is allowable, if more, time to investigate fuel delivery/illegal air
Vacuum, at unregulated manifold port, 19-21”hg..with a dead steady needle, investigate jitter or bounce.


..... Philip

Did some research:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-Supe...OBD-II-Bluetooth-Auto-Car-Scanner-for-Android-Torque-elm327-OBD2-/261748554862?

Cant get more inexpensive than this.. $6.98 US, delivered!

OOPS! I stand corrected
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-V1-5...420&meid=ad1d571c6c88480fa021ca6912ce994d&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=261748554862

Note: I have no affiliation with the seller..

 

A video of mine about my Sportage faulty TPS and the data coming from my ELM327 clone OBD scanner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjmFDV6B224

 

Well done !

You've certainly put your new toy to good use, and great video - I look forward to the follow-up when you have the replacement TPS installed.

 

I have not received my new TPS yet, cheap but slow shipping, but I have started fearing that my Sportage TPS erratically behaviour is caused by poor ECU grounding, so it will not be solved by the new TPS.

 

Galf, if have any issues getting the replacement, PM me your address - I have a spare (used tested good) TPS for you here.

 

Or it could be caused by loose or oxidized connector contacts.

 

Thank you GottaCruise, but my new TPS was released by customs the day before yesterday, so I expect it to be here today or on Monday.

I rely on you, instead, for your high competence on electrical engineering, to receive help on this forum with my TPS issue and a not working passenger's window, when I have the time to work on them and if you are not too much busy, of course.

 

You got it, just let me know if I can help. You guys seem to have the TPS diagnostic part well sorted, but if you need values, etc. give a shout out, will get info. from the Sporty here and post..

Wife's Sporty gets a new power steering pressure hose assembly this weekend.

Blah, this will be 4th replacement on the 4th different Sportage, and it sucked the first 3 times. Looking forward to being covered in power steering fluid, hooray!

 

My old TPS

made in Korea under Bosch licence, code 0K24718911, it has its contacts numbered from 1 to 3

it has a movement range of 90 degree, from so

to so

its resistance, between the contacts 2 and 3, goes from 2.708 kΩ

 

to 0.888 kΩ.

The service manual indicates that its resistance, between the contacts 2 and 3, should go from about 2.4 kΩ, at closed butterflies, to about 1 kΩ, at completely open butterflies. I intend to remove my new TPS to see which are its resistance values.

 

to 0.888 kΩ.

The service manual indicates that its resistance, between the contacts 2 and 3, should go from about 2.4 kΩ, at closed butterflies, to about 1 kΩ, at completely open butterflies. I intend to remove my new TPS to see which are its resistance values.

I don't believe that the resistance values that you recorded are too far out of spec., and maybe it is intermittent and that's causing the problems.

 

Also keep in mind you are resistance testing an unloaded circuit, more often it's not being given a chance to show failure. Supply it 5v and retest may prove more revealing.

 

Thanks for your suggestion, I will do that. But how do you know that it needs 5 V and not 12 V?

 

Leave it installed and use a Live Data Scanner,, see what the ECU is seeing..

.... Philip

 

Thanks Philip, but I will remove it to test it in the same conditions of the old one. to see if there is any difference, because I am curious and because my new sensor is giving me more troubles than the old one. For this reason on saturday I will solder its connector electrical wires directly to the TPS contacts, and if in the future I will have to disconnect it I will unscrew it and I will remove the whole sensor. And, since I am there, I will double all the ground wires, always soldering them directly to ground.