Kia Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey All,

I just picked up a super clean loaded 2014 Soul Exclaim with about 50k on the clock that needs a new engine. The previous owner drove it with a loose coolant cap and did some very serious damage. Water that is poured into the radiator filler seems to be going directly into the oil.

I'm thinking the easiest fix will be to pick up a used engine and do a swap. The price I got it for easily justifies buying a low mile engine at what appears to be something in the $2500 range

Looks like the recommended way to do this is to drop the subframe with both the engine and transaxle ... not so easy to do in a home garage with no lift. Has anyone pulled a 2.0L out of a PS Soul from above without messing with the subframe? I've seen only one video on YouTube detailing such an engine swap on a Soul - but it's on a 2012 model which I know is the previous generation.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,866 Posts
You have a blown head gasket and it would probably be much cheaper to replace it and either check the head surface to make sure it is still flat or have it ground flat... or look for a used head off of a car that had engine damage from a wreck (car-part.com)... Do not reuse the head bolts as they are torque to yield and can only be used once... Drain the coolant and the oil and flush the radiator and engine... Replace the oil and filter... run the engine for a short time (like 50 miles) drain replace the oil and filter again... You should have a good engine...
Dave
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks! That sounds like a good place to start at least. A head looks to be in the $250 range ... less than 10% of the price of a used engine.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,866 Posts
I'm always looking for ways around the high price cars and car parts...
My family and extended family drives car I rebuilt from salvage (iaai.com...copart.com)...

I say "you don't drive the salvage title you drive the car" and no one will ever ask...

My wife drives a 2014 KIA Optima 2.4L that had 54k miles on it and we have under $3500 in it...

My latest is a 2016 Chrysler 200s with 45k miles that was hit in the front... I'll have under $5700 in a car selling for $14000...

I put a 2.7L V6 in a 2008 Hyundai Tiburon that had the engine go in water (hydro-locked)... I got the engine from a local "pull-a-part" with all the accessories (Alternator/Starter/Power Steering pump/AC pump) from a 2004 Hyundai Sonata for $250 out the door... I had to pull the engine but for that price it was worth it... That car is my wife's Summer play toy... :)

If you need any help we are here but sometimes may take a day or two to answer (working outside during the Summer months)...
Dave
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I'm always looking for ways around the high price cars and car parts...
My family and extended family drives car I rebuilt from salvage (iaai.com...copart.com)...

I say "you don't drive the salvage title you drive the car" and no one will ever ask...

My wife drives a 2014 KIA Optima 2.4L that had 54k miles on it and we have under $3500 in it...

My latest is a 2016 Chrysler 200s with 45k miles that was hit in the front... I'll have under $5700 in a car selling for $14000...

I put a 2.7L V6 in a 2008 Hyundai Tiburon that had the engine go in water (hydro-locked)... I got the engine from a local "pull-a-part" with all the accessories (Alternator/Starter/Power Steering pump/AC pump) from a 2004 Hyundai Sonata for $250 out the door... I had to pull the engine but for that price it was worth it... That car is my wife's Summer play toy... :)

If you need any help we are here but sometimes may take a day or two to answer (working outside during the Summer months)...
Dave
Thanks Dave,

Rather amazingly, this one is going to cost me a grand total of the parts I put into it and the tax and registration. I was being a good Samaritan and helped out an elderly couple on the side of the road. After realizing the engine is going to need significant work the gentleman thanked me for helping he and his wife and putting them up in a comfortable place for several hours on a hot Texas day. He handed me the keys saying he wasn't going to put any money into it. I was more than a bit shocked but very thankful ... I've got a few cars in the yard, but all of them have between 150000 and 240000 miles on them!

Once I have the title in hand I think I'll start off with getting a new gasket set and simply removing the head and seeing what it looks like ... that looks like a fairly simple procedure.

kisouman DOT com/cylinder_head_removal-970.html

In the meantime I think I'm going to drain the oil and coolant and get that out of the system.
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Putting almost no money into it (a couple of quarts of ATF) I've got the head pulled out and I'm waiting for the title to arrive. I turned the crank to bring the cylinders to mid stroke and filled them up to the rim with the ATF.

If the ATF level stays where it's at for a couple of days then the rings and the block/cylinders should be ok. It's been sitting here for a few hours and the level is still fine so I'm hopeful that the lower end is good.

Once I have the title in hand I'll have the head checked out and cleaned up or replaced if it's cracked from the heat.

One thing I noticed as I was taking it apart is that this engine is somewhat different than the one pictured in the on-line manual I cited in my earlier post.


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
99 Kia Elan, 17 Ford Edge Sport, 15 Mustang, 08 Harley Nightrain
Joined
·
9,702 Posts
Putting almost no money into it (a couple of quarts of ATF) I've got the head pulled out and I'm waiting for the title to arrive. I turned the crank to bring the cylinders to mid stroke and filled them up to the rim with the ATF.

If the ATF level stays where it's at for a couple of days then the rings and the block/cylinders should be ok. It's been sitting here for a few hours and the level is still fine so I'm hopeful that the lower end is good.

Once I have the title in hand I'll have the head checked out and cleaned up or replaced if it's cracked from the heat.

One thing I noticed as I was taking it apart is that this engine is somewhat different than the one pictured in the on-line manual I cited in my earlier post.
Depending on how severe the overheat, the piston rings can become annealed, and not long after the rebuild the engine starts burning oil. Got to roll the dice doing the extra work now, or take a chance and you get lucky and don't start burning oil after a few thousand miles.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,866 Posts
If the head and block are both "true" (flat, not warped) you may have a very inexpensive "soul" :)
They don't look bad but they need checked...
Hope it's your lucky day...
Dave
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Depending on how severe the overheat, the piston rings can become annealed, and not long after the rebuild the engine starts burning oil. Got to roll the dice doing the extra work now, or take a chance and you get lucky and don't start burning oil after a few thousand miles.
The wet leakdown test with the ATF sitting in the cylinders for a few days "should" show me if there's a problem with the rings. If that's the case, I'll just go the used engine route. Having taken it apart this far and looked at what kind of clearances I have on all sides of the engine, I'm pretty sure that I can pull the old block and drop the "new" engine (with no intake or exhaust manifold attached) in from the top.

If the head and block are both "true" (flat, not warped) you may have a very inexpensive "soul" :)
They don't look bad but they need checked...
Hope it's your lucky day...
Dave
I'm getting a good straight edge to lay across the block at several angles and see if the top is true. The head will be going to a trusted local engine machine shop to check for cracks, probably clean up any slight warping that may have occurred, and give the valves a good cleaning - since they are coated in carbon deposits (and some rust from being exposed to the coolant) this is a good time to get them cleaned up!
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Well, it looks like I'm going to be in the market for a new engine. 1,3, and 4 are holding up well, but cylinder 2 is down about a ¼" in less than 24 hours.

Pretty sure it would run but it would be an oil burner.


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I've got the engine completely removed now. I've checked the flatness of both the block and the head. The block is less than 0.003" but the head is right at 0.010" - that's well above the limit for a MLS head gasket. I've got a call in to a engine machine shop to get an idea of what the cost of rebuilding it would be. Otherwise I'm looking for salvage yard motors or scanning copart or iaa for wrecked donor cars.

I'm starting a new thread in the technical section about engine swaps from other Kias or Hyundais that might be compatible.
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Update on progress made.

I looked at all my options from a salvage yard engine - to buying a wrecked complete car at auction - to buying a remanufactured engine ... and came back around to the idea to rebuild the original engine myself.

I brought the head to a local engine machine shop and he milled off 0.015" and is doing a full valve job as only two valves are holding pressure.

I wasn't happy with the leakdown issue so I pulled the pistons and ordered a new set of pistons and rings. I'm glad I did so as there was a ton of gritty debris between the rings. Not sure if I'm going to get a cylinder flex hone or get the engine machine shop to do that for me too - it might be about the same cost.

I found that by shopping around on eBay, Amazon, and HyundaiPartsDeal I was able to save a ton of money and was able to stay with OE Kia/Hyundai parts for the major items - though I did get Mahle gaskets and DNJ head bolts, head spacer shim, and water pump.

Some parts have lead times out until the end of August, so I probably won't have another update until September when I hope to have this car on the road. All told, I expect to be into this rebuild to the tune of about $850-$900. Perhaps a remanufactured engine with a warranty would have been smarter, but I'm pretty proud of the work I'm putting into it on my own.

This is the view of cylinder two (the one that leaked down the most). The score right by the piston front mark scared me a bit.
112194


And here is piston 2. Not sure what would have caused that burr or peening at the edge of the crown, but it lines up with that more severe vertical score. The rings on some of the pistons are completely collapsed and don't spring out like the ones in this picture. I think I made a good call on replacing them.
112195
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The head is home from the machine shop. He ended up milling off 0.018" to get it flat. Glad I picked up the 0.020" shim to make up for that milling. He also did a full valve job - so I'll be starting off with a clean set of valves - hopefully I can keep them clean by doing a Seafoam treatment each oil change.

112375


I stopped by a local granite countertop place and picked up a piece of scrap 2" thick granite to use as a surface plate so I can lap the top deck of the block. Countertop places often have this kind of scrap literally by the ton and are happy to give them away rather than having to pay to dispose of them.

112376


Here it is with a couple of sheets of 320 grit sandpaper stuck to it using Scotch 77 spray glue. As long as you don't leave the paper stuck to the plate for too long you can peel it off and clean up the glue residue using some shop towels with some mineral spirits followed by some window cleaner and be ready to stick on another set of sandpaper sheets without dealing with an uneven buildup of glue residue.

112377


Here's the granite sink cutout showing its size relative to the block. If you do this you definitely want a block of granite bigger than the block or head to be lapped - that way when you slide it around you're keeping the cutting surface of the sand paper on the full surface of the block at all times and not creating an uneven surface by only sanding a portion of the block.

112380


I ended up using a pipe wrench to pull the dowel pins from the top of the block. They are destroyed, but even with shipping a new set of them only cost $12 which might seem like a lot for what they are ... but it's a lot less than the cost of a special dowel pin puller tool! If you ever have to do this, make sure you put the old head gasket back on the block before you start twisting the pins out with a pipe wrench - the old gasket will protect the surface from being accidentally scratched with the wrench.

112378


Here's the top of the block after a short time lapping it by sliding the plate and sandpaper on the top of the block in a figure 8 pattern. The black marks are strokes I made with a black Sharpie marker to show me where the low spots are. As you can see, the tops of the cylinder bores are lowest spots on my block. Depending on the table I look at a 320 grit is supposed to give an Ra of 10 or 12 μ inches. Which is comfortably better than the < 30 Ra that is required for the MLS head gaskets used in these cars. I think I'm going to pick up a few more packages of sandpaper tomorrow before I get back at this job - something in the neighborhood of 180, 240, and another pack of 320. Stepping through the grades should make the process go quite a bit faster and give the same final results.

112379
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Harbor Freight had some 220 and 500 grit so I picked up a package of each. This evening I got down to business with the 220.

It took just about an hour working with the 220, and two sets of sandpaper to get it completely lapped flat. I then switched to the 500 grit and gave it another 25 figure 8s.

It was a lot of work, but it looks fantastic and I'm confident that there will be no more problems with it leaking once the shim, gasket, and head are installed and torqued properly.

The series of photos were taken each time I took a break to blow off the aluminum dust from the sandpaper.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,866 Posts
I have read that the rings on the GDI engines are a little loose and these engines do burn a small amount of oil over a thousand miles and it's considered "normal"... We have a 2014 Optima with the GDI engine with around 56k miles on it and it does use a small amount of oil...I think they have done this to reduce the friction and increase the MPG...
My 2016 Chrysler 200s with their 2.4L I4 with 43k miles also uses more oil than my older KIAs (2006~2008 Spectras)... I like your way of truing the block and I will have to look into getting a piece of marble... I really enjoy putting totaled/scrapped cars back on the road once again... The rewards are both monitary and satisfying... Keep the pictures coming and the best of luck on your rebuild...
Dave
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
So this was the scariest part about this project for me. This is the first time I've honed cylinders. It was really kind of anticlimactic.

I watched several YouTube videos on the topic and talked about it with the engine machinist who did the head. He said to only use a ball hone, not one of those three-armed ones. Also to make sure that the cylinder and the hone are good and lubed with ATF or WD-40.

I poured what was left of a quart of ATF from my leakdown test into a cut-off gallon container and let the hone soak in it for a while.

Being a bit paranoid about this job, I also cut off a Gatorade bottle and slipped it into the bottom of the cylinder to protect the crankshaft from any potential clumsiness on my part.

I then mopped the inside of the cylinders with a rag soaked with ATF and went to work. I ended up doing each cylinder for about 25 or 30 seconds. They look awesome! All of the surface corrosion from the coolant intrusion is gone. And while you can still see several of the vertical scores, you can't feel them with your fingernail.

All in all this was a simple process that I worried a lot more about than I needed to.

The pics are the ball hone soaking in ATF, the whole block showing the nicely crosshatched cylinders, and finally a close up of cylinder 2 showing how well the vertical scores were dealt with.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Next step is to clean the block meticulously to get out all the gritty particles I created with the sanding and honing operations. Alternating pressure washing, scrubbing with dish soapy water - then blowing it dry (tomorrow is supposed to be a nice cool 95°F - so pretty good conditions for this job) followed by mopping the cylinders repeatedly with mineral spirits on white paper towels until no dark materials come out on the towels. Then oiling all the iron/steel parts so they don't rust ... and then we can finally begin assembly as all the parts I've been waiting for are now here.

112457
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I did the cleaning of the block today and started to pull apart the old pistons from the con rods and took one of the new ones out of the plastic packaging. That's when I hit a snag ... and we've got a project delay.

112471


Turns out I followed what some of the Kia on-line parts sites said that listed the piston part number of 23041-2B610 as fitting a 2.0L Soul ... turns out that is a smaller diameter piston (probably for a 1.6L) and will not work. I think from a bit more research that the correct part number is 23041-2E210 and I'll be getting them on order tomorrow and getting these ones returned.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,866 Posts
Were the original pistons damaged? I have heard that the rings were... But the pistons unless cracked should have taken the heat... Just me rambling on... Dave
 

·
Registered
2014 Kia Soul Exclaim
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The rings definitely were shot. And the number two piston had two troublesome dings around the crown. I tried to take the rough edge off with a file and some fine sandpaper and wasn't happy with the results so I think I need at least one new one.

Edit: I took a closer look at piston #2 and it actually has several dings around the crown - not just the two that I had previously noticed. The idea that something may have fallen into that cylinder has some merit. In any event, I've got the full set of pistons on order and will press on as soon as they get here. Everything else is at the ready.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top