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2012 Kia Sorento 2008 Ducati 848
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Discussion Starter #1
I will be towing close to the towing capacity on my Sedona. I see it has a Power steering cooler, and I see transmission fluid lines going to the radiator area, presumably a stock transmission cooler of some type. Does anyone know how much of the radiator is dedicated to tranny cooling? My Odyssey had one of these, but it just circulated trans fluid in a tube surrounded by engine coolant, therefore assuring the returning fluid was never really that cool. Does the Sedona have this or does it have an actual circuit in the radiator? How much of the radiator is dedicated to this task? The Service manager at the 1st dealer I went to thinks I do not need an extra cooler. I'm not sure he really knew what he was talking about, though. Thanks...

Ben
 

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2006 Kia Sedona 1997 Land Rover Discovery
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A power steering cooler? Really? I highly doubt that.
Almost all trans coolers are inside the radiator just like your Honda was.
Unless it is a truck specifically with a tow package.
Stay within the rating of the van and you will be fine.
Just check the trans fluid color when you are done, as long as it is nice and pink still you are fine.
Any doubt change the fluid.
 

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I will be towing close to the towing capacity on my Sedona. I see it has a Power steering cooler, and I see transmission fluid lines going to the radiator area, presumably a stock transmission cooler of some type. Does anyone know how much of the radiator is dedicated to tranny cooling? My Odyssey had one of these, but it just circulated trans fluid in a tube surrounded by engine coolant, therefore assuring the returning fluid was never really that cool. Does the Sedona have this or does it have an actual circuit in the radiator? How much of the radiator is dedicated to this task? The Service manager at the 1st dealer I went to thinks I do not need an extra cooler. I'm not sure he really knew what he was talking about, though. Thanks...

Ben

Ben,

First off, think "two-way street" when posting. Remember to post back info you might run across during your quest, providing details you'd like to run across if YOU were running a search.

A good number of cars on the road today have a cooler internal in the radiator.
OEM's like them as it their lessens COSTS. It reduces having to "mount" something else- reduces the amount of inventory carried EG: Separate cooler), speeds up time on the assembly line.

Pros of OEM:
Cheaper for OEM.
Cheaper for OEM.
Cheaper for OEM.
Helps "heat" the fluid in *cold temps according to some.
Fluid to fluid heat exchange is more efficient, during periods of "slow" airflow.

Con's of OEM
The cooler is internal in the radiator, so ATF temp is never going to be "optimum".
(Google " Transmission cooler temp". )

Keep in mind:
OEM is looking at cost, vs how the majority of customers will use the car, vs how many transmissions they have to replace while car is in warranty.

(I haven't read thru the 10yr /100k mile powertrain warranty terms as I've been UNABLE to find a copy... but I would think they probably have ways to void the warranty when used for towing as there's no way to certify you were under xyz lbs towing rating. )

Can the fluid be too cold? I'd be worried about it being too hot.

*A lot of newer transmissions actually open and close flow to outside lines to help warm up the fluid during cold conditions.

How much is dedicated to the task? I'd venture not much (as percentage wise most customers will not pull a heavy load).

What I'd do is to install a (Large) extra cooler in tandem with the OEM one.
(At the very least I'd install a trans temp gauge.)

HD cooling package like a Police car usually has a higher capacity radiator, and a larger than stock trans cooler. (In addition maybe a oil cooler, increased capacity engine oil and trans pan.)

Think "Police or Truck towing /cooling package".



Should you listen to the service manager? A better person to talk with would the the SHOP FOREMAN if your only source of info is going to be the dealer.

Personally, I would visit SEVERAL transmission shops that actually do rebuilds and pick their brains. I would approach them asking them what goes wrong in regular use, and follow up by asking them what goes wrong when you are pulling a load. (Weak points) You may find you need to install a shift kit in addition to adding additional cooling.


PS: I'd trust the advice of a transmission shop had to say over a "service manager"...
(Newsflash= Most people hired for the positions of Service Manager, Service Writer /Adviser aren't ex-techs. They were hired because they are "smooth" with people, and if truth be known are good at making you feel at ease while at the same time they are maximizing profit for the dealership. Service managers /advisers paycheck depends on them hitting a certain quota.)


Oh, How big a cooler, cooling capacity needed depends on a bunch of stuff:
I'd configure the vehicle for the worst scenario and figure in a safety margin.

Do you live in a area which is flat or mountainous?
Duration= Short trips?
How much towing?
How many miles are on the car now?
Frequency?
Able /willing to change fluid at end of a leg of a tow? (Before return trip, and upon arriving at destination.)
Speed?
How big a load are you pulling? (lbs)
What kind of air Resistance of load?
(To get a idea of how air resistance is a factor... while driving down the road @ 40 -50mph open one of the front doors... try to push it open.. hold it there.)
How "close" are you getting to the OEM rated towing capacity? I'd take that number and figure in a safety margin.
What kind of roads are you traveling on? Interstate or secondary roads?
Stop and Go?
What time of year? (What are the temps going to be?)





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2006 Kia Sedona 1997 Land Rover Discovery
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WANA has a good point, how is the van driven most of the time?
You are going to do more harm than good installing a mongo trans cooler when the van is only driven 10 miles a day 360 days of the year.
If the fluid never reaches proper temp you are doing as much harm as running it to hot.
I agree with talking to a trans shop.
personally I'd just leave it alone.
 

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WANA has a good point, how is the van driven most of the time?
You are going to do more harm than good installing a mongo trans cooler when the van is only driven 10 miles a day 360 days of the year.
If the fluid never reaches proper temp you are doing as much harm as running it to hot.
I agree with talking to a trans shop.
personally I'd just leave it alone.

A lot of newer transmissions actually open and close flow to outside lines to help warm up the fluid during cold conditions.


I think best option is to pick the brains of some trans shop techs, vs "service manager", or even shop foreman (Which should be much more knowledgeable than "service manager /service advisers")


.
 

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2012 Kia Sorento 2008 Ducati 848
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Most of the driving is 20-30 minute trips onto and out of town, dropping kids at school, groceries, etc.

There's two lines going in and out of the power steering pump, and they go down the right front wheelwell and into a radiator looking thing mounted in front of the regular radiator on the lower right side. It is about 5"by 7" and the tube inside it is just shaped like a "U". Yeah, I think it's a power steering cooler. I thought it was pretty unusual myself. The P.S. cooler and the 100k warranty is why I was thinking it might have a more substantial tranny cooler than my Odyssey.

I think I am going to get a temp sensor and get a handle on the trans temp behavior for now, and try a shorter trip with the camper without getting a aux cooler.
 

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Most of the driving is 20-30 minute trips onto and out of town, dropping kids at school, groceries, etc.

There's two lines going in and out of the power steering pump, and they go down the right front wheelwell and into a radiator looking thing mounted in front of the regular radiator on the lower right side. It is about 5"by 7" and the tube inside it is just shaped like a "U". Yeah, I think it's a power steering cooler. I thought it was pretty unusual myself. The P.S. cooler and the 100k warranty is why I was thinking it might have a more substantial tranny cooler than my Odyssey.

I think I am going to get a temp sensor and get a handle on the trans temp behavior for now, and try a shorter trip with the camper without getting a aux cooler.
Warranty is a numbers game= Keep that in mind.
It's a fwd mini-van, not a 1 ton truck. Target market is typical mini-van driver.

You mention the Power steering pump lines... Follow the lines from the trans.

On the temp sensor- I suggested that as it's the ONLY way to know for SURE what the trans temps are.

You might be able to pull the info off the databus with something like this:

OBD-II Scan Tool
ScanTool 423001 ElmScan 5 Compact OBD-II Scan Tool and OBDwiz Diagnostic Software : Amazon.com : Automotive


Please remember to post back (in detail) what you do...
Hey this xyz super-duper wiz bang widget worked great...

My temps are xyz...

If linking to Ebay auctions, (or sites that item might go "poof")... do a copy and paste of the description of the item (Part number(s), Name, mfg, etc ) instead of, Hey I got this thing... and ONLY do a direct link to xyz auction as most Ebay links go stale after a certain amount of time.
(Post full info on the item, along with link to item)

.
 

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A lot of newer transmissions actually open and close flow to outside lines to help warm up the fluid during cold conditions.



.
I did not know that, sounds like another problem area to me but I've almost been wrong before. ;)
 

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Adding a aftermarket trans cooler to OEM in radiator :

PDF: Install the cooler in series and downstream of the radiator in-tank oil cooler. This maximizes heat transfer and decreases transmission warm-up times in colder ..

Source DANA CORPORATION

Note: PDF references a thermal by-pass be used below 32F/ 0C
 

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Found this:

Millions of automatic transmissions fail every year from overheating. If you tow a boat, trailer, camper or drive in Stop & Go traffic you risk overheating your transmission fluid.When your transmission fluid reaches 200° it starts breaking down.

Transmission coolers help extend the life of your transmission fluid and can prevent transmission failure from overheating.
At 240° varnishes form and transmission life expectancy is cut in half.
At 260° the transmissions internal seals and rubber parts harden and major damage starts.
Above 295° your transmission start slipping, clutches burn out and carbon forms.
With each 20° drop in operating temperature, your fluid and equipment life doubles.
Installing a cooler before damage starts and by reducing the transmission fluid temperature by as much as 60° can greatly extend the life of your transmission.
Installing a transmission cooler can prevent transmission burnout.
 

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Most owner's manuals say it isn't necessary. Yeah, right. That's why transmission shops are making a fortune replacing burned out automatic transmissions.

For optimum protection, change the fluid and filter every 30,000 miles (unless you have a new vehicle that is filled with Dexron III ATF which is supposed to be good for 100,000 miles).
Why Atf Wears Out

An automatic transmission creates a lot of internal heat through friction: the friction of the fluid churning inside the torque converter, friction created when the clutch plates engage, and the normal friction created by gears and bearings carrying their loads.

It doesn't take long for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to heat up once the vehicle is in motion. Normal driving will raise fluid temperatures to 175 degrees F., which is the usual temperature range at which most fluids are designed to operate. If fluid temperatures can be held to 175 degrees F., ATF will last almost indefinitely -- say up to 100,000 miles. But if the fluid temperature goes much higher, the life of the fluid begins to plummet. The problem is even normal driving can push fluid temperatures well beyond safe limits. And once that happens, the trouble begins.

At elevated operating temperatures, ATF oxidizes, turns brown and takes on a smell like burnt toast. As heat destroys the fluid's lubricating qualities and friction characteristics, varnish begins to form on internal parts (such as the valve body) which interferes with the operation of the transmission. If the temperature gets above 250 degrees F., rubber seals begin to harden, which leads to leaks and pressure losses. At higher temperatures the transmission begins to slip, which only aggravates overheating even more. Eventually the clutches burn out and the transmission calls it quits. The only way to repair the damage now is with an overhaul -- a job which can easily run upwards of $1500 on a late model front-wheel drive car or minivan.

As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

If you think this is propaganda put forth by the suppliers of ATF to sell more fluid, think again. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association, 90% of ALL transmission failures are caused by overheating. And most of these can be blamed on worn out fluid that should have been replaced.

On most vehicles, the automatic transmission fluid is cooled by a small heat exchanger inside the bottom or end tank of the radiator. Hot ATF from the transmission circulates through a short loop of pipe and is thus "cooled." Cooling is a relative term here, however, because the radiator itself may be running at anywhere from 180 to 220 degrees F.!

Tests have shown that the typical original equipment oil cooler is marginal at best. ATF that enters the radiator cooler at 300 degrees F. leaves at 240 to 270 degrees F., which is only a 10 to 20% drop in temperature, and is nowhere good enough for extended fluid life.

Any number of things can push ATF temperatures beyond the system's ability to maintain safe limits: towing a trailer, mountain driving, driving at sustained high speeds during hot weather, stop-and-go driving in city traffic, "rocking" an automatic transmission from drive to reverse to free a tire from mud or snow, etc. Problems in the cooling system itself such as a low coolant level, a defective cooling fan, fan clutch, thermostat or water pump, an obstructed radiator, etc., will also diminish ATF cooling efficiency. In some cases, transmission overheating can even lead to engine coolant overheating! That's why there's a good demand for auxiliary add-on transmission coolers.

Auxiliary Cooling

An auxiliary transmission fluid cooler is easy to install and can substantially lower fluid operating temperatures. The plate/fin type cooler is somewhat more efficient than the tube and fin design, but either can lower fluid temperatures anywhere from 80 to 140 degrees when installed in series with the stock unit. Typical cooling efficiencies run in the 35 to 50% range.

Source: How often should the automatic transmission fluid... — Yahoo! Autos
 

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B&M 70268 SuperCooler Automatic Transmission Cooler : Amazon.com : Automotive

Thought this snip from ad copy would interest those who are concerned with ATF fluid being "too cold".
Notice the wording "Controlled by viscosity, thicker ATF is returned directly to lube through two bypass openings in the stacked plate core"

The unit monitors resistance to flow by allowing a controlled amount of ATF to pass through a self-regulating orifice. Controlled by viscosity, thicker ATF is returned directly to lube through two bypass openings in the stacked plate core, while thinner ATF is directed through the core to cool as operating temperatures increase.


So far as ATF fluid being too cold, at extreme temps shouldn't you be:

A: Restricting air flow thru the radiator as is done on semi-trucks during the winter time?
B: Have a remote start system and be using it to get engine up to temp before driving off?

.
 

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Found this:

Millions of automatic transmissions fail every year from overheating. If you tow a boat, trailer, camper or drive in Stop & Go traffic you risk overheating your transmission fluid.When your transmission fluid reaches 200° it starts breaking down.

Transmission coolers help extend the life of your transmission fluid and can prevent transmission failure from overheating.
At 240° varnishes form and transmission life expectancy is cut in half.
At 260° the transmissions internal seals and rubber parts harden and major damage starts.
Above 295° your transmission start slipping, clutches burn out and carbon forms.
With each 20° drop in operating temperature, your fluid and equipment life doubles.
Installing a cooler before damage starts and by reducing the transmission fluid temperature by as much as 60° can greatly extend the life of your transmission.
Installing a transmission cooler can prevent transmission burnout.

Sounds like a advertisement to me, in fact I have seen that same first paragraph in the newspaper with the picture of a transmission shop in the background.

Here is the deal, I'm a FedEx driver, our vans are fully loaded every single day of the week in all temps, all traffic conditions, stop and go traffic like none other.
Park, reverse drive a thousand times a day, full throttle acceleration all day everyday, did I mention fully loaded? 100+ temps?
Engine running for 10 hours non stop? Did I mention all of that?
Our transmissions fail because the clutches wear out not the fluid.
124,000 miles on my van and the original trans fluid, no extra trans cooler, just the OEM set up for a 1-ton Ford van with the 5.4L Triton V8 and the fluid is still just as pink as day one.
As long as you stay within the OEM towing specs you do not need a extra trans cooler.

I have a friend who has a 1/2 Chevy that he uses to plow snow in the winter, he runs a extra trans cooler and still goes through a transmission a year.
All of the heat that builds up from plowing parking lots pushing tons of snow kills it.
Nothing he can do about it, just part of the business.
 

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Most owner's manuals say it isn't necessary. Yeah, right. That's why transmission shops are making a fortune replacing burned out automatic transmissions.

For optimum protection, change the fluid and filter every 30,000 miles (unless you have a new vehicle that is filled with Dexron III ATF which is supposed to be good for 100,000 miles).
Why Atf Wears Out

An automatic transmission creates a lot of internal heat through friction: the friction of the fluid churning inside the torque converter, friction created when the clutch plates engage, and the normal friction created by gears and bearings carrying their loads.

It doesn't take long for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to heat up once the vehicle is in motion. Normal driving will raise fluid temperatures to 175 degrees F., which is the usual temperature range at which most fluids are designed to operate. If fluid temperatures can be held to 175 degrees F., ATF will last almost indefinitely -- say up to 100,000 miles. But if the fluid temperature goes much higher, the life of the fluid begins to plummet. The problem is even normal driving can push fluid temperatures well beyond safe limits. And once that happens, the trouble begins.

At elevated operating temperatures, ATF oxidizes, turns brown and takes on a smell like burnt toast. As heat destroys the fluid's lubricating qualities and friction characteristics, varnish begins to form on internal parts (such as the valve body) which interferes with the operation of the transmission. If the temperature gets above 250 degrees F., rubber seals begin to harden, which leads to leaks and pressure losses. At higher temperatures the transmission begins to slip, which only aggravates overheating even more. Eventually the clutches burn out and the transmission calls it quits. The only way to repair the damage now is with an overhaul -- a job which can easily run upwards of $1500 on a late model front-wheel drive car or minivan.

As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

If you think this is propaganda put forth by the suppliers of ATF to sell more fluid, think again. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association, 90% of ALL transmission failures are caused by overheating. And most of these can be blamed on worn out fluid that should have been replaced.

On most vehicles, the automatic transmission fluid is cooled by a small heat exchanger inside the bottom or end tank of the radiator. Hot ATF from the transmission circulates through a short loop of pipe and is thus "cooled." Cooling is a relative term here, however, because the radiator itself may be running at anywhere from 180 to 220 degrees F.!

Tests have shown that the typical original equipment oil cooler is marginal at best. ATF that enters the radiator cooler at 300 degrees F. leaves at 240 to 270 degrees F., which is only a 10 to 20% drop in temperature, and is nowhere good enough for extended fluid life.

Any number of things can push ATF temperatures beyond the system's ability to maintain safe limits: towing a trailer, mountain driving, driving at sustained high speeds during hot weather, stop-and-go driving in city traffic, "rocking" an automatic transmission from drive to reverse to free a tire from mud or snow, etc. Problems in the cooling system itself such as a low coolant level, a defective cooling fan, fan clutch, thermostat or water pump, an obstructed radiator, etc., will also diminish ATF cooling efficiency. In some cases, transmission overheating can even lead to engine coolant overheating! That's why there's a good demand for auxiliary add-on transmission coolers.

Auxiliary Cooling

An auxiliary transmission fluid cooler is easy to install and can substantially lower fluid operating temperatures. The plate/fin type cooler is somewhat more efficient than the tube and fin design, but either can lower fluid temperatures anywhere from 80 to 140 degrees when installed in series with the stock unit. Typical cooling efficiencies run in the 35 to 50% range.

Source: How often should the automatic transmission fluid... — Yahoo! Autos
Look in the owners manual of your van, how often does it say to change the trans fluid?
Every 30k? I dont think so, 60k at best.
Dexron 4 is full syn, its supposed to last 150k.
Do you know why they did that? Do reduce their CAFE fines, the less often you need to change a fluid the less your cars pollute which increases your CAFE MPG average, in other words in order to meet the 35mpg fleet average you either need to sell nothing but small cars or "cheat" buy reducing the amount of fluids to be drained and use more environmentally safe fluids in your fleet.
GM uses Dex-Cool, it is bio degradable because it is a "organic" engine coolant, it is supposed to last 150,000 miles as well.
GM also went to a computer system that tells you when to change your engine oil, again extending the life of the fluid thus reducing the CAFE fines.
Sealed for life u-joints, tie rods etc. also reduces the CAFE fines.
If you dont know hoe CAFE works its pretty simple, meet the requirements or pay a fine.
You dont have to meet the regs, but if you dont you will need to pass that cost onto your customer which increases the cost of your product which reduces your sales.
Ford still uses the "change your oil every 7,500 miles" rule but they changed their vehicle line up unlike GM.
Ford does not offer the Expedition or Excursion anymore, the E-series is on its way out too.
They got rid of the Crown Victoria, they are going to start using aluminum on their pick up trucks and they are more focused on small cars and small SUV's and hybrids and small twin turbo powered engines, thats how they are meeting the CAFE standards.
CAFE is the average MPG of your entire fleet, sell 1 large truck, 1 large SUV, 1 small SUV and then 1 mid size car and 3 small cars that increases your fleets average MPG.
What we need here in the US is more small diesels.
My Land Rover Discovery with the V8 averages 15mpg, if I had the turbo diesel I would average 28mpg with the exact same truck.
I wish I had a diesel.
 

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So far as ATF fluid being too cold, at extreme temps shouldn't you be:

A: Restricting air flow thru the radiator as is done on semi-trucks during the winter time?
B: Have a remote start system and be using it to get engine up to temp before driving off?

.
Because diesel engines are so efficient and burning their fuel they produce very little heat and inherently run cold so they use radiator muffs.
You can take a fully warmed up diesel engine and let it idle in 32*F temps and you will not only loose heat from the heater but the temp gauge will drop down below 100*F and then the exhaust will start to smoke a bluish smoke from all of the unburnt fuel because the combustion temps are to low and the fuel is not being combusted completely.
That is also why cold diesels smoke so bad when first started, glow plugs stop this from happening but they only work on a stone cold engine.
If it is cold enough the engine will not even get hot while driving, if the engine is cold enough the fuel in the fuel filter will "gel" up and clog the filter and starve the engine of fuel.
There are electric heaters in the fuel tanks on semi's but getting from the fuel tanks to the engine the fuel has time to cool off, the fuel filters are usually mounted on the side of the engine block to help them keep warm.
I had a truck gel up on me once, it was about -15*F and 3am, before cell phones, not a good feeling having your engine loose power and you are alone knowing that the blanket and jacket you have with you will not keep you warm enough to survive the night.
Luckily I was able to limp her to the next exit where I bought anti gel for the fuel, added it, let it get mixed in and she started running well again.
It was hairy for about 20 mins though.

Remote starters are great but waste fuel.
We have one on our van, nice to get the a/c going in the summer after sitting in the hot sun all day.
Buy man does it reduce the MPG of the van, totally worth it though. lol
 

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Sounds like a advertisement to me, in fact I have seen that same first paragraph in the newspaper with the picture of a transmission shop in the background.
Some of the info was copied from site selling coolers, so yes it's going to read like a ad. I'm not going to spent hours researching on this subject.

My point is OEM's look at what the majority of the target market will be for xyz product and seldom build the product to the next level, so a cooler is a good idea. You will note in the opening post the OP had stated he will being towing a load very near the rated capacity of the Sedona.

Here is the deal, I'm a FedEx driver, our vans are fully loaded every single day of the week in all temps, all traffic conditions, stop and go traffic like none other.
Park, reverse drive a thousand times a day, full throttle acceleration all day everyday, did I mention fully loaded? 100+ temps?
Engine running for 10 hours non stop? Did I mention all of that?
Our transmissions fail because the clutches wear out not the fluid.
124,000 miles on my van and the original trans fluid, no extra trans cooler, just the OEM set up for a 1-ton Ford van with the 5.4L Triton V8 and the fluid is still just as pink as day one.
As long as you stay within the OEM towing specs you do not need a extra trans cooler.
Is this a Fed-Ex truck, or your personal vehicle you're talking about?
Above vehicles are not in the same class as a Sedona, Fed-Ex trucks are purpose built, that FORD 1-ton van is designed as a 1 ton... FORD 1-TON VAN is expected to be run at or over the limit- driven by multiple drivers... drivers than don't care. Sedona is a consumer, vs commercial grade item.

Q: How often does Fed-Ex change fluid? Do they just run the trans till it fails?

I have a friend who has a 1/2 Chevy that he uses to plow snow in the winter, he runs a extra trans cooler and still goes through a transmission a year.
All of the heat that builds up from plowing parking lots pushing tons of snow kills it.
Nothing he can do about it, just part of the business.
Ah, so you're saying heat kills transmissions?
What temps is he running?
Sounds like your friend needs to add a larger cooler, one with a fan due to the low speeds /high loading, PLUS install a deep extra trans pan that increases total fluid volume. If this has already been done- I would think the only thing he could do is to use a smaller blade reduce amount of loading..

El-crap-ola- he's running a 1/2 TON? No wonder he's going thru transmissions.

.
 

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FedEx does NOT own my van, I own it, all FedEx Ground and Home Delivery drivers are contractors.
I NEVER change the trans fluid, waste of time and money.
No the vans are NOT purpose built, a E-250 is still a E-250, nothing special about it when bought brand new, we have a bubble top added and the stickers, thats it.
No extra coolers.
I will admit the 1-ton is a heavy duty van and built as such, except the heater, instrument cluster and the carrier bearing on the driveshaft, I used to go through 3-4 of those a year until I had a "deflector" fabbed up to protect it from dirt, water and road salt.
All of the snow plow drivers around here use 1/2 ton trucks, you only need a 3/4 ton if you are doing large parking lots all the time, he does driveways.
You also have to consider space when adding a extra trans cooler, there is only so much room to put things.
The cost is the price of doing business, in other words burning up 1 transmission a year is part of the job.
 

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FedEx does NOT own my van, I own it, all FedEx Ground and Home Delivery drivers are contractors.
I NEVER change the trans fluid, waste of time and money.
No the vans are NOT purpose built, a E-250 is still a E-250, nothing special about it when bought brand new, we have a bubble top added and the stickers, thats it.
No extra coolers.
I will admit the 1-ton is a heavy duty van and built as such, except the heater, instrument cluster and the carrier bearing on the driveshaft, I used to go through 3-4 of those a year until I had a "deflector" fabbed up to protect it from dirt, water and road salt.
All of the snow plow drivers around here use 1/2 ton trucks, you only need a 3/4 ton if you are doing large parking lots all the time, he does driveways.
You also have to consider space when adding a extra trans cooler, there is only so much room to put things.
The cost is the price of doing business, in other words burning up 1 transmission a year is part of the job.
The point I was trying to make is a 1-ton is a HEAVY DUTY VAN, Sedona is not.

On your friend with the 1/2 ton... how many transmissions would he go thru with a 3/4 ton?

(1) transmission a year, only doing driveways?.... for what 3-4 months out of the year?

Q: E-250 is a 1-ton? Thought it was:
150= 1/2 ton
250= 3/4 ton
350= 1 ton
 

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When plowing snow around here you can plow non stop for 24+ hours, one year he plowed for 36 hours straight.
He then bought a second truck and had his oldest son help him when he was to busy.
He also does small parking lots and storage units.
To do the mall, Wal-Mart, Target, etc. the companies they contract use farm tractors, front end loaders and back hoe's and leave them parked in the back of the lot. The mall 2 miles from my house has 6 tractors and a 500gal diesel fuel tank parked in one corner of the parking lot after Thanksgiving.
One year a radio station did a used car give away, the car was buried under a snow pile in the mall parking lot, you won the car in January but could not actually get it until April, it was great.
I forget what the contest was to win the car, but I remember it was a Ford EXP because my friend had one and we laughed at how anyone could want to own one of those POS's. LOL
 
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