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Premium Member
2010 Ceed 1.6 CRDi, 2006 Toyota Landcruiser D4D 8 seater
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Discussion Starter #1
picked up my new, to me, 2010 ceed 3 on Monday (5 door, 1.6 CRDi, 13150 Miles).

Stereo stopped working this morning, dealer is replacing it under warranty so not a major issue but I thought they were supposed to be reliable!!!

Other than this I am loving the car :)
 

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pro_ceed 1.6 CRDi 66kw (2008)
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725 Posts
... they never were!

In fact, possibly the least reliable part of the whole car.

Btw, welcome to the forum :)
 

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2010 Ceed 1.6 CRDi, 2006 Toyota Landcruiser D4D 8 seater
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5 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thanks for the welcome, will have to keep an eye out for a good head unit then.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Another way to look at it is...
It could have failed 1 week AFTER the warranties ended...
The replacement may last well beyond the rest of the car's life..

Things break.... Look at NASA and the failures over the years of their existance..
They spent Billions of dollars on designs and secondary backup systems..

The "radio" in your car is not a simple design...Customers want "features" and most of those features involve microprocessors, hundreds of thousands of internal parts/elements and human programing...

Be happy it wasn't the "fly by wire" accelerator pedal.. You "request" a change in speed and the ECM THEN acts on your request and increases or decreases the air/fuel mixture... No more throttle linkage (or even throttle cables)...

We rely upon microprocessors to control the lighting (signal indicating,brake lights) /windows/door locks/security/braking/heating&cooling/emmision control/and even the "simple" radio... With customer desired complexity comes higher chances of failures from design errors/programing errors/component breakdowns...
It won't get any better.... (Toyota's gas pedal problems is one).
I'd be happy that the radio died and not one of the above "critical" systems.
Dave
 

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pro_ceed 1.6 CRDi 66kw (2008)
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725 Posts
^ amen to the above.

Btw, I got my radio replaced once under warranty, the second unit is relatively ok. (Not 100% satisfied with it, but I can use it on a daily basis (playing CDs), which was not the case with the replaced one). If I had a usb socket, I would not complain. It sometimes stops & ejects the CDs though...
 

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Ceed 1.6crdi ('07)
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648 Posts
Things break.... Look at NASA and the failures over the years of their existance..
They spent Billions of dollars on designs and secondary backup systems..
The difference between a car and a space vehicle is that car manufacturers have the luxury of making millions of a product for an understood and relatively benign environment.

It won't get any better.... (Toyota's gas pedal problems is one).
I'd be happy that the radio died and not one of the above "critical" systems.
Dave
But electronics and software has been one of the contributors to vastly improved durability and reliability compared to 30/40 years ago.

The Toyota "problem" was partly mechanical but also the usual issue of elderly people and automatics when manoeuvring. It wasn't electronic.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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When electronics work they can be spectacular and concidering the parts count with in a microcontrolled device (and the chips) the failure rate is usually low...
Cars can operate much better "with" electronic controls over older mechanical devices... But my being involved with consumer/commercial/industrial electronics over 45 years I have seen some major blunders in designs and would rather have a KEY operated switch over a "push button" to start and stop my car. It's called a "fail safe" device that will allow me to regain control OVER the electronics...Same with brakes and the accelerator...
One programming bug (like INTEL had with their Pentium processor) could spell a tragedy.. I like/love electronics and the wonderful things they can do..I just like the knowledge "I have the last say" (pull the plug)
Dave
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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I've found car stereos/radios remarkably reliable considering the harsh environment. Early CD players used to "jump tracks" on bumpy roads, but that seems to have been overcome. The quality of KIA stereos is pretty good; certainly not work chucking in favour of the ultimate sound.
 

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Kia Ceed, MGTF, Various Jeeps new and old, FIAT 500
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268 Posts
^ amen to the above.

Btw, I got my radio replaced once under warranty, the second unit is relatively ok. (Not 100% satisfied with it, but I can use it on a daily basis (playing CDs), which was not the case with the replaced one). If I had a usb socket, I would not complain. It sometimes stops & ejects the CDs though...
It would seem that if they get a CD read error they eject the CD rather than skip. I thought you would have a USB on a 3 model.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using AutoGuide App
 

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Ceed '3' 1.6 CRDI 114bhp 2012reg
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114 Posts
You can get usb socket for less than £2 on poular auction website. They just plug in to your cig socket.
 

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Ceed 1.6crdi ('07)
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One programming bug (like INTEL had with their Pentium processor) could spell a tragedy..
Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?

Compared to processors that go into PCs, car electronics is pretty mature by the time it gets to the dealer's forecourt. And if you do get a car with a chip or software design fault it's unlikely to work away happily for 3 years before that particular section is accessed. (Or if it does, it will be another 3 years before it happens again. But repeated over 500000 cars, it would be statistically quite noticeable.)

There is also an enormous difference between the software in a car and a PC. Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory. So it is more akin to your tv remote control than to a PC. A PC changes from the moment a customer merely turns it on and off (one curiosity about Windows is that it says it is saving something when switching off even if nothing has been done), let alone after entering their preferences and loading dodgy apps off the internet. It's really quite remarkable that a PC works at all for more than 5 minutes.

I agree, though, about the start/stop button. Just a silly fashion item.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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To address your opening statement...
"Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?"
TOO MANY VARIABLES and interactions between systems...

All of the Millions of Intel processors "were the same" and their "simple calculating error" built into those processors DID cause such MAJOR problems such that an external piece of software had to be added to make sure that firmware calculation was never used. This "bug" was not found UNTIL the CPUs were installed and in public domain.

If you check the interaction between MPUs (ECM/TCM/BCM/SRS/ABS (antilock braking) /etc...) an "error" may not be "found" before a mix of the combined functions of the intercommunicating MPUs strike like a "true" slot machine (not like the programmed ones that do not randomly "pay out")..
The 2007~2008 Spectras had a problem with their "auto off" headlights coming back on (in the middle of night most times) when an internal programming bug hit on the right combination of variables were "hit" and it drained the battery. ...Found AFTER a year of driving them...Yes the software was corrected and the "bug" squashed but not ALL Spectras had this problem and there are still some with the old code on the road today.

NOT ALL cars leaving the factory have the SAME programming.. Ref: Canada's so called security system is not here in the USA, ABS on "some" models, Cruse control on some models, manual & automatic versions, anti-skid, traction control...I can go on and on....

Your statement "Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory." is also flawed and incorrect...
Some cars will get updates in firmware and others will slip through the cracks up till the day they are no longer driven.

You better check on your windows statement also...Windoz8 (typed that way on purpose) MOST definitely DOES save an "image" of the last few seconds to the hard drive to make you believe it's "faster" than it's earlier OS's.. And thankfully you CAN defeat that "improvement"...

I choose to run a "flavor" of Linux called Kubuntu because I DON'T trust the thieves at MS... Better programing, free, and open source to keep my computer running faster and safer from all the problems MS "sees".

Software "code" has become commonly millions of lines long and when "updates"/corrections/modifications are then added to that base software it becomes no longer practical or possible to check each and every logic statement and subroutine. Errors do get past..

Microsoft FINALLY saw that "Vista" was a SLOW HOG and spent millions of dollars removing dead end code that went back to DOS 1.0.. Windows7 is a much better OS than Vista... Windows8 is also not being well received.

I understand that there are TOO MANY variables in software/firmware/hardware to trust...That's why I want to be able to "pull the plug" (and mechanically disconnect power when absolutely necessary). I also have an "honest to God" RESET button to regain control over hardware/software problems.
Dave
 

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Ceed 1.6crdi ('07)
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To address your opening statement...
"Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?"
TOO MANY VARIABLES and interactions between systems...

All of the Millions of Intel processors "were the same" and their "simple calculating error" built into those processors DID cause such MAJOR problems such that an external piece of software had to be added to make sure that firmware calculation was never used. This "bug" was not found UNTIL the CPUs were installed and in public domain.
Yep, being the same was precisely the point. And you ignore that electronics devices in cars will be very mature before reaching the user; engine management and ABS have been around for well over 20 years and unlike the flashy bits for the consumer's eyes, the development cycle need have no concerns about fashion.
If you check the interaction between MPUs (ECM/TCM/BCM/SRS/ABS (antilock braking) /etc...) an "error" may not be "found" before a mix of the combined functions of the intercommunicating MPUs strike like a "true" slot machine (not like the programmed ones that do not randomly "pay out")..
The 2007~2008 Spectras had a problem with their "auto off" headlights coming back on (in the middle of night most times) when an internal programming bug hit on the right combination of variables were "hit" and it drained the battery. ...Found AFTER a year of driving them...Yes the software was corrected and the "bug" squashed but not ALL Spectras had this problem and there are still some with the old code on the road today.
Unless all did it, that wouldn't be a characteristic of a software problem. A problem occuring outside the software domain that can be fixed with a software workround, perhaps.
NOT ALL cars leaving the factory have the SAME programming.. Ref: Canada's so called security system is not here in the USA, ABS on "some" models, Cruse control on some models, manual & automatic versions, anti-skid, traction control...I can go on and on....
The ECU in my car probably has all the functionality for cruise control even though I have been given no means to access it. It will almost certainly have all the capability to interract with an auto box controller even though auto is not fitted. Individual boxes may be electrically connected the ECU but likely only because the ECU contains a hub for diagnostics - physical connection to the box does not mean separate functions must inevitably interract in a complex manner.

Your statement "Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory." is also flawed and incorrect...
Some cars will get updates in firmware and others will slip through the cracks up till the day they are no longer driven.
Doesn't alter the principle. My 5 year old Ceed has had one engine update and it's unlikely to get another which still means only two flavours will be in service. Even then, as engine management is so heavily table driven, they probably only changed a few parameters, not the operating code.

You better check on your windows statement also...Windoz8 (typed that way on purpose) MOST definitely DOES save an "image" of the last few seconds to the hard drive
That's precisely what I said. Why are are saying I'm wrong, other than not reading? Other than that, just hold on to what I said about car systems not being not being like a PC.
 

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Premium Member
2010 Ceed 1.6 CRDi, 2006 Toyota Landcruiser D4D 8 seater
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Discussion Starter #16
wow thats a lot to take in guys - glad I use a Mac ;)
 

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Pro Ceed 1.6 Crdi Challenge
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^ amen to the above.

Btw, I got my radio replaced once under warranty, the second unit is relatively ok. (Not 100% satisfied with it, but I can use it on a daily basis (playing CDs), which was not the case with the replaced one). If I had a usb socket, I would not complain. It sometimes stops & ejects the CDs though...
In 1,5 year i replace HU three times under warranty then i finally bought kenwood and know i finaly have peace :)
The Oem HU is low quality siemens aka blaupunkt/sucks :)
 

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pro_ceed 1.6 CRDi 66kw (2008)
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725 Posts
Indeed it sucks.

However, I'm worried that someone would smash my window and take the new unit out...most of them don't come with detachable front panel as old 1DIN units did.. or they do come with a detachable front panel, but cost too much. (At least, last time I was browsing to see what's being offered)

Plus, the guys at KIA here don't want to install it, and they void the warranty if someone from aside tampers with electrics..
 
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