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2012 kia sorento
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm being told I need a new engine due to sludge. I have 70k miles on a 2011 kia sorento.

I've been googling and see lots of possible steps before total engine replacement.

Should I be considering replacing just certain components? It's going through oil like mad. I have to add a quart every few days.

For example: this thread recommends a pcv system clean before chucking the whole engine.

Burning LOTS of oil - Can my engine be saved? - Car Talk

And I've been reluctant to try something like seafoam since people report that it can cause the sludge to break up and then get lodged. But can I cause anymore damage at this point?


Any advice on how to proceed is appreciated. I've never been an auto DIYer, but I'm trying to understand better rather than being at the mercy of the dealership.
 

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2007 Kia Rio5, manual, roll up windows. 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 5.9L V8
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Have you taken it to the dealer yet?

I find it really hard to believe that a relatively new motor has sludge at all. If, on the rare chance that it does, you really should pursue the dealer remedying this.

Also, that much oil!? Does it leak, that's a huge amount of oil to be burnt.
 

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2012 kia sorento
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Discussion Starter #3
No leak. At least i haven't seen one and firestone also checked for leak.

Took it to dealer first. They said same. I didn't believe them and went to Firestone. It took several visits and oil changes, but they now say the same thing.

I wasn't paying attn to mileage. My husband drives a ridiculous amount for work, so I'm sure we went way over on one of the changes.

I'd also read that super frequent (like 500-1000 miles) can rehab an engine. But of course neither the dealer or Firestone brought that up as a possibility.

Dealer already declared it not available for warranty due to improper maintenance :-(

Huge lessons learned here for me. But I'm trying to figure out where to go from here.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Sounds like you haven't been doing enough "DIY". KIA engines have gone 300k miles "if" proper care has been taken. The oil use is probably from wear from lack of oil/filter changes and cannot be undone unless the engine is rebuilt or replaced. No simple "fix" will help..
I hope that is a lesson learned. You have to maintain your car to keep it running.
Dave
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Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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Two organisations stating that a new engine is needed, would suggest that it is in fact the case, and doubt anyone here is in a position to recommend otherwise.

Has the main reason for the oil consumption been identified? - piston rings/bore , valve guides, and a faulty/fouled Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system ?
A compression test (dry and wet) should give some idea on the state of the bore and piston rings.
If it smokes during deceleration, then its valve stems.

An engine running too cold (thermostat stuck open), causes sludge - I take it this is not the case seeing as you have acknowledged poor maintenance.
The fact that the oil and filter has not been replaced at the correct interval, you can expect wide spread engine wear/damage, so best go for a factory re-manufactured engine (top and bottom).

As you say, you have nothing to lose trying an engine flushing agent and followed with new oil and filter, and a few frequent oil & filter changes thereafter - it may just prolong the inevitable, giving you a little more time to plan.
 

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2012 kia sorento
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Discussion Starter #6
No main reason has been determined. Both just said "we see sludge, you need a new engine". I guess my question is new engine? Or rebuild? Or take apart and clean?
 

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2013 Sorento, Suzuki V-Strom
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No main reason has been determined. Both just said "we see sludge, you need a new engine". I guess my question is new engine? Or rebuild? Or take apart and clean?
You previously made this post: "We put miles on it so fast, we did go too long between oil changes last year. Didn't realize how many miles had gone by."
http://www.kia-forums.com/2011-2013...position-timing-over-advanced.html#post517826

It is entirely possible that you have damaged this engine by failing to do oil changes before the oil was bad. Your options are limited. The dealership will charge way too much for taking the engine apart, cleaning it, and reassembling. A local repair shop might do it for less. You can try chemical cleaning. I already mentioned Auto-Rx. It works, but there might be mechanical damage to your engine that no chemical can fix. There is another possible chemical fix, Kreen
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you. I've gotten a great recommendation for an independent mechanic. Going to game plan with him. It just seems like the dealer is jumping to a total replacement without even looking to see if a smaller replacement will fix the issue.
 

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2015 Sorento EX V6 AWD Ebony Black
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No main reason has been determined. Both just said "we see sludge, you need a new engine". I guess my question is new engine? Or rebuild? Or take apart and clean?
This should not be happening at 70k miles? but, neglect will cause it.
It doesn't sound good, but there is one more possibilty to check. Take out your air filter, and check the housing & filter for oil residue, & should be totally dry, although might be dirty from road dust, depending on your maintenance schedule? If it's wet, clean it up, & replace the air filter, then,,,

Next, find, & replace your PCV valve, it's cheap, & easy to do, then test to see if it helps any?

If either of these don't help, then you will need a new, or rebuilt engine.
I'd say maybe a clean junk yard engine, might be your most economical way to go,,,once you examine the engine, they usually deliver it free too. You will just need someone to install it, & set it up.

Good Luck. either way
Mike D.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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No main reason has been determined. Both just said "we see sludge, you need a new engine". I guess my question is new engine? Or rebuild? Or take apart and clean?
Has the main cause of the oil consumption been identified?

Taking it apart for cleaning will do nothing for a worn out engine.

A factory re-manufactured engine is usually more cost effective than a strip down and rebuild.
 

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You really need to have an accurate diagnostic of the motor performed, that means a full compression test (dry/wet) and leak-down test on all cylinders,

The valve covers should be pulled and the condition of the top end examined,
based on the condition of the top end of the motor, and the amount of sludge/coking found would dictate pulling the oil pan / cleaning the bottom end of the motor, oil pan, and oil pump pickup screen,

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The referenced post mentions using kerosene to 'soak' the engine to remove sludge, I would advise against this - *mechanical cleaning is the -best, only method- to remove excessive caked-on/baked/coked sludge from the motor.

Some mechanics recommend, -following- mechanical cleaning, using the following, in-motor, cleaning procedure:

Full oil drain, new oil filter,
(Replace) 1 Quart of oil on fill with 1 Quart of clean diesel fuel,
Start vehicle, bring to operating temp, let idle for 10 minutes.
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Drain oil, replace oil filter.
Refill with 1-grade lighter oil vs. recommend spec,
Start vehicle, bring to operating temp, drive 100 miles.
* This removes any remaining diesel fuel / smaller debris..
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Drain oil, replace oil filter.
Refill with 1-grade lighter oil vs. recommend spec,
Drive vehicle for 500 miles.
*Short interval (500 mile) post-cleaning oil change.
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Drain oil, replace oil filter.
Refill with recommend grade oil / perform 1,500 - 2,000 mile oil change.

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(2) important points on cleaning procedure:

1) You may be tempted to use the (cheapest) oil filters available - DONT. Use OEM or high-quality (e.g. WIX-Brand) oil filters for all phases of the cleaning regime. You -want- a filter on the vehicle that is going to catch & filter any dislodge debris!

2) You may be tempted to purchase higher-end (e.g. more expensive) oil to use with the cleaning regime. It is -not- necessary, just purchase a good-quality inexpensive 'dino' oil (e.g. "Peak" brand) that meets the manufacture requirements for the vehicle. Save your $$$ / synthetic or synth-blend is not needed for the cleaning regime.. (But if it makes you feel better using it, your choice.)

*Edit: if your vehicle calls for synthetic-blend as the recommend motor oil, then you -should- use an inexpensive synth-blend for the cleaning prodedure.

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Above is for your reference only: do not take the word of any posting off the internet as 'gospel', it is your vehicle, and your responsibility, to take the information and intelligently discuss the info. with (whomever) you choose to perform the service!

My personal recommendation is to find someone experienced & familiar with -your- vehicle, so they are familiar with any additional components that will need to be inspected/cleaned/replaced, if, after compression/leak-down checks, the motor is found to be suitable for cleaning ..

*Above said, I hope the info helps.

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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Thank you. I've gotten a great recommendation for an independent mechanic. Going to game plan with him. It just seems like the dealer is jumping to a total replacement without even looking to see if a smaller replacement will fix the issue.
What is the great recommendations from the independent mechanic?
What is the game plan ?

The damage due to inadequate lubrication is very widespread in an engine, and I cant imagine what this "smaller replacement will fix" could be - please keep us up to date on that.
 

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2013 Sorento, Suzuki V-Strom
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Thank you. I've gotten a great recommendation for an independent mechanic. Going to game plan with him. It just seems like the dealer is jumping to a total replacement without even looking to see if a smaller replacement will fix the issue.
I had to leave my previous posting short to take the dog to his vet appointment (the last chemotherapy treatment for his lymphoma...working very well so far, and we hope for a long remission--cure isn't possible.)

Your other options include have an indie mechanic start looking for a good used engine from a wrecked Kia/Hyundai.

The excessive oil usage is possible from the piston rings stuck into their grooves due to baked oil. One of the chemicals I mentioned above might clean that out.

Here's the Kreen info:
Engine Cleaners

It is made by Kano Labs that is best known for their highly regarded Kroil penetrating oil.
Kreen

Internal Engine Cleaner - Improves Performance
Guaranteed to improve your engines performance. When added to
either the gas or oil of your engine, Kreen dissolves the carbon deposit
buildups and varnishing to Improve Compression · Increase Gas Mileage
Reduce Downtime · Restore Power By thoroughly cleaning the rings, valve, and fuel injectors - Kreen gives new life back in any gas or diesel engine.
Money Back Guarantee
Order direct or for more information
800-311-3374
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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I wasn't paying attn to mileage. My husband drives a ridiculous amount for work, so I'm sure we went way over on one of the changes.

I'd also read that super frequent (like 500-1000 miles) can rehab an engine. But of course neither the dealer or Firestone brought that up as a possibility.

Dealer already declared it not available for warranty due to improper maintenance.
Do you have any records that show the length of time/miles between oil changes? If it was as much as 20,000 miles with no topping-up, sufficient oil would have been lost from normal oil consumption to leave you with about half the normal amount. Poor circulation, engine damage, overheating and sludging would be the result. I don't think that there's any alternative to an engine replacement. Frequent oil changes will be of no benefit at this stage.

Some oil companies talk about extended change intervals (10,000 to 20,000 miles), but this assumes that it's not under extreme conditions and that the oil level is checked regularly.

Our KIA has oil changes every 12 months, or 15,000 km (9,000 miles). Mostly it's a lot of highway driving, which I regard as "easy usage". When there's a lot of city driving "severe usage", we change at 7,500 km (4500 miles) or thereabouts, which is usually at less than 12 months. I'm rather obsessive about topping-up, and always carry some spare oil. I have trained my son to check the oil regularly -but he's not obsessive!
 

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2015 Sorento EX V6 AWD Ebony Black
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If you do as I mentioned, and test it good, then find it was only a defective PCV valve,,, Only then fresh oil & a new oil filter, plus any one of the engine cleaners, and procedures described here will help greatly.

Otherwise, obtaining another engine, rather then rebuilding yours would be the least time consuming, and most effective fix.
 

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2012 kia sorento
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Discussion Starter #16
What is the great recommendations from the independent mechanic?
What is the game plan ?

The damage due to inadequate lubrication is very widespread in an engine, and I cant imagine what this "smaller replacement will fix" could be - please keep us up to date on that.
I meant that I got a recommendation for a guy that got great reviews for multiple neighbors. I haven't met him yet. Will let everyone know the outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you very much folks. I've got nothing much to loose at this point, so ill try some of these things and let you know.
 

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2013 Sorento, Suzuki V-Strom
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Our (Australian Cerato) KIA has oil changes every 12 months, or 15,000 km (9,000 miles).
There is some difference between countries. The Australian Valvoline web site shows 10W-30 for your engines. The U.S. cars take 5W-20 with a recommended drain interval of 12 months or 7500 miles. As you mention many short drives is hard on oil, as are long heavy, hard drives. Easy highway miles is easy on oil.

For those of us in the U.S., the Australian Valvoline web site is interesting to see what lubes are recommended for the same machinery in a different country. It is common to see higher viscosity lubes recommended for the same engine, mainly due to people's common practices and expectations. The U.S. pushes fuel economy, and the lighter engine oils and transmission fluids do help the car makers' Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) a few percentage points. And, the engines do fine on either oil.
http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/valv_auMS/
 

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2013 Sorento EX V6 AWD
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If it was me, I would:

1. dump the existing oil and change the filter
2. refill with something like Motorcraft semi-syn 5W-20 and replace 1L with a light solvent like Marvel Mystery Oil.
3. Drive the car for a few hundred miles.
4. Dump the oil and change the filter (check filter for chunks of crap).
5. Repeat steps 1-5.
6. Refill with fresh full synthetic oil and new filter and see how things go with consumption.

That MIGHT free up coked rings if that's your consumption culprit. I've done this before on Saturn engines which had stuck rings due to oil coking.

If the OP let it go a really long time (15-20k) between changes, then there might be significant damage other than the oil consumption to worry about.

There's a lesson in here somewhere... :) Don't forget to change your oil. The result can get VERY expensive.

Best,
 

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2015 Sorento EX V6 AWD Ebony Black
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Hey Sauron,

I'm a big fan of Marvel Mystery oil myself ;)
I think it's magic, been using it for the last 20yrs in all my boats, motorcycles, cars, & trucks, after finding out how good it was by accident? :rolleyes:

It keeps getting harder to find on the store shelves, and more pricey. :(

By the way, it might help this issue, or it might be too late if the rings are too far worn, causing blowby.

SJoAnneF,

Please check your PCV valve, & dipstick for oil vapor, & light air pressure, when the engines running.
 
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