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2017 Sedona LX
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Discussion Starter #1
Two questions: (1) can you really hear a bad timing belt? (2) what is an engine flush? And I guess another question is do you have any other extensions.

Background:

We bought a 2017 Kia Sedona two years ago with 17,000 miles on it. It now has 51,000 miles. Every car I have had for the past twenty years (Hondas) had a service light or identification as to when to change the oil. Apparently, the Kia Sedona does have an indicator but it needs to be turned on which it never was. Hence, it has not had an oil change in 34,000 miles. The yellow check engine light came on and the only noticeable thing with it is that it just starting a slight "whirring" sound when accelerating.

I took it into the Kia Dealership today and they said the oil filter and oil on the dipstick and oil cap are full of crud (I saw it and agree). Therefore it is out of warranty for improper maintenance. Their recommendation was a new engine for $8,900 which is not going to happen. I did find several local shops that will install a re-manufactured engine for about $5,000. I also found two places that said they can rebuild the engine. One for $4,000 and one for $2,200.

They said that whirring sound is the timing belt.

Now, this is the same dealership that said they could not fix flat on another occasion because a nail in the tire was too close to the edge. They tried to sell me two new tires. They had marked the screw with white ink and it was right in the center of the tire so they knew exactly where it was. I had it plugged by someone else. Also, they said that they would give me about $13,000 on a trade with the engine the way it is. That makes me suspicious because it seems like a lot if it needs $8,900 worth of work (even though their cost would obviously be a lot less).

The dealer said they could try to just flush the engine for $525 but could not guarantee that it would fix it or that the check engine light would go off.

I am thinking about just changing the oil and filter now and see what happens. As I said, the car runs fine except the whirring sound.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 08 Harley Nightrain
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Two questions: (1) can you really hear a bad timing belt?
No, a timing belt that's about to fail, normally due to neglect, provides no warning indications or sounds.
(2) what is an engine flush?
A special flushing fluid is used to break up the sludge, and requires a procedure of 3 to 5 frequent oil changes following the flush, and is not a fix for a damaged engine.
And I guess another question is do you have any other extensions.
No idea what that means.

What makes you distrust the dealerships diagnosis that the engine needs replacement? - It's to be expected based on the abuse it suffered.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 08 Harley Nightrain
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Would that engine have a chain by any chance?
Good point - Kia started moving to timing chains around 2010, so this 2017 will be chain.
 

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Sportage LX AWD 2014, Forte LX+ 2014
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583 Posts
I guess my point is, if dealer cannot tell belt from chain - a HUGE sign to stay away.
 

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Sorento 14, Sedona 17 LX+
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One thing you ought to do ASAP is find out what the underlying Diagnostic Trouble code (DTC) is that caused the check engine light to come on, so you know what the engine thinks is wrong. (it won't be a code for dirty oil...). Just go to any DIY auto-parts stores (A*zone, Adv*Auto, O'R*, NAP, etc.) and they will (for FREE) hook up a scan tool, and read out the code(s) that caused the check engine light to come on. They will also tell you what the code means, (not necessarily a diagnosis but gives you an idea of what system(s) have issues). You can google the code and find out more info if needed.
 

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2019 KIA Sorento SX - 3.3L GDi V6 - AWD
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955 Posts
I don't mean to sound "judgmental", but...

Going 2 years/34,000 mi without an oil and filter change was total neglect on your part. You cannot rely on (or blame it on) a maintenance/service minder light.

Before even considering an engine flush, I would take it to a trusted mechanic at a local shop and have him remove the valve cover (on top of the engine) as well as the oil pan so he can determine exactly how much sludge has accumulated inside the engine. If there is a lot of it, it will have to be scraped out by hand. Then he can flush the engine to get the rest of it out, followed by a couple of short oil drain intervals.

However, as @mv520 said above, that check engine light might have absolutely nothing to do with engine sludge.

Furthermore, as @ron1004 said above, there might already be engine damage... a flush cannot fix that.

I recommend fully synthetic oil in this engine.

Richard
 

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2017 Sedona LX
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10 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all your replies. First, darn spell-check. The last thing was any more suggestions, not extensions.
1. I changed the oil and filter today. The noise went away.
2. You are correct, the light has nothing to do with the oil pressure. That light does not come on for oil.
3. Why don't I trust the dealer mechanics? Well, for one they said that the timing belt was making the noise and there is no timing belt on a 2017 Sedona, you cannot hear a bad belt if it was, and he said the light was on due to the oil problem. In addition, last time I brought in they told me that the tire could not be fixed because it was too close to the edge. They clearly circled the nail right in the very center of the tire. They tried to sell me two new tires. Plus a few other reasons.
4. I realize that not changing oil was my ignorance. My wife has driven her car for many years. When the oil light came on she tells me and I change the oil. Unfortunately, with the Sedona, the oil/service engine light does not come on unless it has been set. We bought the van used and never even thought about it. We were spoiled with all of our previous cars.
5. The mechanics where I took it suggested the same thing as here and I will do the two things. A) check the codes for the light (on line it says that light is for emissions). B) Change the oil very frequently and with flushing fluid.

You folks are great and I appreciate it.
 

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2019 KIA Sorento SX - 3.3L GDi V6 - AWD
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I changed the oil and filter today. The noise went away.

Happy to hear that the "whirring" sound that you were hearing before "went away".

(And kudos on changing your own oil and filter.)

That said, that doesn't mean that there hasn't already been damage done to the engine (or excessive wear).

Furthermore, if there is a sludge build-up on the engine's internals (which is what it sounded like based on your last post), a simple oil change won't be sufficient to get rid of it. You will need to either flush out the engine (as your mechanic suggested), or at the very least, do a couple more oil drains.

What did the oil look like when you drained it? Did you notice any sludge in it? How about wear metals?

Did you closely examine the oil filter? Was there any sludge or metal particles in it? (If you still have it I would cut it open and unroll the filter media and examine it - wear gloves.)

I strongly suggest doing another oil change in 1000 mi (or less). You might need to do one more after that one.

If you do decide to flush out the engine, you can do it yourself using a good, safe engine flush product such as THIS ONE for instance. Just carefully follow the directions on the bottle.

I hope this helps,

Richard
 

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2019 KIA Sorento SX - 3.3L GDi V6 - AWD
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955 Posts
When the oil light came on she tells me and I change the oil. Unfortunately, with the Sedona, the oil/service engine light does not come on unless it has been set.

The "oil life monitoring system" is a lot more sophisticated and accurate on some vehicles than on others. The more advanced monitoring systems use sophisticated algorithms to monitor several different factors like, miles and hours driven, driving conditions and habits, engine load and temps, etc.

Others, on the other hand, are nothing more than mileage "counters". These more basic versions are more maintenance minders than actual systems. They're based on mileage, and switch on a maintenance light when the vehicle hits a predetermined mileage range. Unfortunately, the one our KIAs use would fall in this category.

However, none of these systems actually analyse or the oil in your sump and monitor its condition. They also can't see which contaminants (fuel, coolant, metals, dirt) are in the oil and at what levels.

In either case, regardless of what car you drive, I personally wouldn't put too much faith in them.

Oh and just to add to what I stated in my last post, don't forget to regularly check your oil level between drains.

Richard
 

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I hope everything works for you but yes, what were you thinking not to change oil for that long, definitely has shortened life of your engine dramatically. I would also change oil a few more times in next 1000 miles. Glad noise went away but I totally disagree what one poster said that you can't hear a timing belt/change thats going bad, wrong, you definitely can on some vehicles. Not trying to defend dealer but when they say timing belt, they use that term loosely, the service dept. knows it's a chain, period.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 08 Harley Nightrain
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I hope everything works for you but yes, what were you thinking not to change oil for that long, definitely has shortened life of your engine dramatically. I would also change oil a few more times in next 1000 miles. Glad noise went away but I totally disagree what one poster said that you can't hear a timing belt/change thats going bad, wrong, you definitely can on some vehicles. Not trying to defend dealer but when they say timing belt, they use that term loosely, the service dept. knows it's a chain, period.
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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 08 Harley Nightrain
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I hope everything works for you but yes, what were you thinking not to change oil for that long, definitely has shortened life of your engine dramatically. I would also change oil a few more times in next 1000 miles. Glad noise went away but I totally disagree what one poster said that you can't hear a timing belt/change thats going bad, wrong, you definitely can on some vehicles. Not trying to defend dealer but when they say timing belt, they use that term loosely, the service dept. knows it's a chain, period.
To add a little more detail, the typical belt failure does not make any sound in advance, unless the belt starts shredding just prior to failure, or bearings such as the idler or tensioner rollers make a noise.

An severely over tensioned belt will of course also make a noise, but that's not related to this scenario.

Personal observations, but I've not noticed service shops or enthusiasts here refer to a chain as a belt.
 

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2019 KIA Sorento SX - 3.3L GDi V6 - AWD
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Not trying to defend dealer but when they say timing belt, they use that term loosely, the service dept. knows it's a chain, period.

Yes but... a lot of those Service Writers/Advisers are idiots!

Just sayin'
 

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agree that they might say belt because chain is not is some ppls' vocabulary. Also if its in a conversation where not changing the oil caused the problem, the belt(chain) comes to mind as its constantly lubricated by engine oil.

edit : by the looks of it, yes the engine had a rough time, but it is still holding up? If it doesnt fall apart in the next 34k miles, I guess you will have a fun story to tell about this car's break-in oil!
 

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'16 Sedona SX, '09 Genesis
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Did you ever check the dipstick in all of that 34k miles? Sounds like you have not. I'm surprised the engine didn't consume enough oil in all those miles for it to starve of oil. The 3.3L V6 in this Sedona does have the biggest oil sump (6 qts) I've seen in this engine size class, but still...

Consider yourself lucky that the engine still runs. I wouldn't bother with with engine flush. It will do more farm than good. Just change the oil again soon (like 500 miles), then in regular intervals after that. Hopefully you're good. The dealer has every right to refuse engine-related warranty from this point on.

You do know you also have to change the brake fluid and coolant, right? The car isn't gonna tell you to do those (and other maintenance tasks).

I actually turned the service reminder OFF in our Sedona. I keep my own service records and do oil changes etc. based on my own schedule. I got 3 cars and 6 motorcycles. It ain't that difficult to keep up with the maintenance. I sure as h*** don't need these machines to tell me what to do and when.
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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We really wish you well!
You learned an important lesson.
Good luck....I hope she holds together for you!
Keep us informed as to future events.
 

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2019 KIA Sorento SX - 3.3L GDi V6 - AWD
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The 3.3L V6 in this Sedona does have the biggest oil sump (6 qts) I've seen in this engine size class...

The 3.3L V6 in the 2019/2020 models (the 2018 model as well?) now have a 6.87 qts sump.
 

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'16 Sedona SX, '09 Genesis
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The 3.3L V6 in the 2019/2020 models (the 2018 model as well?) now have a 6.78 qts sump.
Seriously?! My '16 is listed at 6.02 US qt in the OM and it takes every last drop of 6 bottles for an oil change. I wonder why the ever increasing capacity. I've had several of the Hyundai/Kia 3.8L V6 and they don't hold that much oil.
 
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