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Discussion Starter #201
the "KiaStein" featuring four wheel Disc Brakes!

The "KiaStein" featuring Four Disc Brakes, Stops much Faster during Panic Braking,

using less Space and Without Lockin' the Wheels too Hard.



The Front Calipers:






the Rear Calipers:

 

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Now the next thing you will have to add is an alarm system as others will want what you have :)
What does the little wife think of "her" monster? Has she driven it?

I spent the last two days of the USA's long Memorial Day weekend detailing my wife's white 07 Spectra... The body had a lot of dirt and road tar and was starting to look like a seven year old car... I said "if" she helped i would detail it for her... So WE cleaned all the tar and dirt off of the lower side of the car..then cleaned all the paint in the door areas, cleaned the carpet and seats, cleaned the tire rubber and hub caps, and gave the car a good Armoral car wash...

She took it out for a drive and an older man at the gas station asked about her new car!
She was PLEASED! It cleaned up just beautifully and the white just shined like a showroom car.. She learned that she COULD do it and that made me happy...

She gets to take her shiny car to work tomorrow (Tuesday) and show off what "SHE" did to her friends...

I hope things have improved in your area of the globe and look forward to a pm from you...

Keep the dirty side down and the shiny side up...
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #204
Now the next thing you will have to add is an alarm system as others will want what you have ...
LoL! ... :) ... I understand, but I dislike Car Alarms at all.



... What does the little wife think of "her" monster? Has she driven it? ...
I drove the car this Weekend, and gave it to her to test it, to learn the New Brake Feeling / Behaviour, during Sunday's Night; and at first she was a little Worried, because the brake pedal Travel has increased a noticeable amount; seems like we already got used to the High Pedal we obtained when I changed Master Cylinders, increasing the Bore...

But after some tests, she noticed the same as I: Along with the increased brake pedal Travel, the Braking Power has increased a Noticeable amount as well; and the Pedal is Soft and very Responsive at the same time.

So, she needs to push it a little bit more than it used to be with the rear drums, but the car stops Quicker and Smoother.

The Noisy Drums and their easiness to Lock, are Gone... Forever!!! :banana:

She went to her job driving the "KiaStein" today... and very Happy called me, to let me know that the Brakes are performing "Awesome, like never before", She was pleased ... That was Great to hear from her for sure. :thumbsup:



... I spent the last two days of the USA's long Memorial Day weekend detailing my wife's white 07 Spectra... The body had a lot of dirt and road tar and was starting to look like a seven year old car... I said "if" she helped i would detail it for her... So WE cleaned all the tar and dirt off ... She was PLEASED! It cleaned up just beautifully and the white just shined like a showroom car.. She learned that she COULD do it and that made me happy...

I Wish I could teach my Wife to do the tiniest thing to our Cars... but beside Driving them, she only knows how to pour fuel ... :whistling: ...


I haven't seen your Kia, nor your Wife's one; do you have a Gallery here, yet? ... Seems like the New Software on this Website, allows us to create Galleries for our Rides, I've uploaded few photos there.



... I hope things have improved in your area of the globe ... Keep the dirty side down and the shiny side up...
Dave
Thank you Dave for your Kind Words, which are Really Appreciated,
Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #205 (Edited)
Let me Explain Why I wrote that the Braking Power has increased.

The Kia engineers used a Master Cylinder of 15/16" for the Sephias with Rear Disc Brakes, instead the 7/8" Master Cylinders on the Sephias with Rear Drum Brakes, to compensate the increased chamber size for the Brake Fluid at the Rear Calipers, otherwise the pedal will go very deep prior to engage the Brakes at Full Clamping Force.

I had to change Master Cylinder as well, but since I never found the 15/16" one in Honduras, I Changed the 7/8" bore Master Cylinder to 1", that change increased the Volume of Brake Fluid moved on the System, Versus the Pressure.

Why? ... Because the Chambers for Brake Fluid at the four Wheel's, got filled earlier and that explains why the Pedal engaged Higher but needed more Leg Effort to get Full Clamping Force, even more: I calculated that there were certain little percentage of Brake Force Reduction, with the increased bore master cylinder; and to compensate the added extra leg effort, I changed the Single Diaphragm Vacuum Booster, with a Double Diaphragm Booster as well, just like the Kia Engineers did on their Rear Disc Brakes + 15/16" Master Cylinder Sephias.

So, when I changed the Rear Drum Brakes with Rear Disc Brakes, the increased Chambers' Size on the Rear Calipers, needs more Brake Fluid to be Moved, that lowered the Brake Pedal a Noticeable Amount, increased its Travel, and due to the Leverage Effect, that increased Travel lets to use easier the Full Clamping Force once again, at the four wheels.

So, despite that Disc Brakes has less friction area than Drum brakes, the Braking Force has increased due to the increased size of the Calipers, which also lets the system to use an increased amount of brake fluid, which compensates the increased size of the Master Cylinder's Bore, Perfectly.

Overall Braking Distances has been Reduced to the Half, during Panic Braking. Also without Dangerous Wheel Locking as used to happen easily on the Drums Brakes. There is a Reason why Sporty cars usually comes with four Disc Brakes: Safety.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Awesome!

Believe this or Not, the Overall braking behaviour on the "KiaStein" has improved even More, seems like the more the car is used, the better it Gets; the reason should be that the brand new parts are still settling, you know, new Rotors, brake Pads and Calipers...

Once again: Many thanks to my dear friend Robert (GottaCruise) for his Kind Help in searching those parts and sending them to Honduras; now a small honduran family has a much safer ride! :thumbsup:

Kind Regards & Blessings.
 

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Discussion Starter #207
Let me share here a small story: Yesterday my wife was Drivin' the "KiaStein" when some douchebag driving a motorcycle, decided to cross a street without respecting the Stop signal, cutting in front of her too close; that happened nearby her office, which is in a residential area; at the time all employees are going home after work; obviously my wife wasn't expecting that, and as she told me, the car was doing around 25 MPH... She Stomped at the Brake Pedal, closed her eyes and the car stopped so immediately, like never before, that the Driver behind her almost hit the "KiaStein".

The driver behind her, who saw the motorcycle doing that and going away without caring on the mess he left behind; is a co-worker who told to my wife a Common Honduran Joke, in Spanish: ¡Que Brecazo!, Hasta la llanta de Repuesto agarró. That means: What a Braking!, even the Spare tire Locked. :lol:

My wife told me that with the older brakes, she would hit that motorbike for sure. Thanks to God that everything ended being only a scary moment without consequences, and she even feel more confident to drive her car now.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #209
A little update on the "KiaStein" Rear Disc Brakes:

The Brakes has been workin' Flawlessly on the "KiaStein" since I installed them.

Do you remember that I never found in Honduras, the Original Flexible Lines for the Rear Calipers?

...and the junk yard's ones came like this:

... they were Rusted, to the point that even I punched an ⅛" hole,

during the cleaning procedures, as you can see:

But then, I found two candidates that might work, one from the Kia K2700, and the Other from the Kia Rio:


... a Comparison Photo, taken with my Cellphone,

Kia K2700 Flex line, next to the Sephia's / Spectra's Sample I have:


... the Kia Rio's one, measure exactly 2" less in Total Lenght:


To chose between the Kia K2700 one and the Kia Rio One: That was my Dilemma...
I chose to use the Kia Rio's Front Flexible lines then...

But now, Seems like to use them was a Bad idea after all...
 

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Discussion Starter #210
Everything has been Workin' Flawlessly

The Brakes has been working Absolutely Flawlessly, without any issue, but Recently I decided to inspect everything on the "KiaStein" and I found that the Kia Rio Flexible Lines, was rubbing against the Shock Absorber's Body, somehow... and the Rubber cover on them, was wear enough to expose the the braided nylon underneath!





So, I obtained the two Flexible Lines, original part for the Kia Sephia

with Rear Disc Brakes, 0K2A-24-3810C from RockAuto.com:








And I installed them today:





Voilá! ... Problem Solved.​
 

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Discussion Starter #211
Update!

Several Miles and Months has passed already since I installed the Rear Disc Brakes, the increased bore Master Cylinder, and the Double Vacuum Booster on the "KiaStein" and the Brakes and Overal Braking Behavior has been working Flawlessly since then.

Previously, the Brakes were Unbalanced from Factory, the front ones had to bear with the braking effort almost alone; now the "KiaStein" stops quickly, without locking easily the Wheels, nor emitting any noise.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #212 (Edited)
Update on Master Cylinder

Remember that the Second Gen Kia Sephia comes with a 7/8" Master Cylinder for the Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes' Models; and comes with a 15/16" Master Cylinder for the Four Disc Brakes Models, from Factory.




The 7/8" Master Cylinder gives a Deep Travel Brake Pedal, and I was afraid that it will go even deeper with Rear Discs instead of the old Drums; so I wanted to Change the 7/8" with the proper 15/16" one, as Kia engineers did, for the second gen Sephias with Rear Disc Brakes.

But I Never found the Proper 15/16" Master Cylinder in Honduras, and I was Short of Money, so as I posted in post Nº 128:

...After four months searching locally for a Master Cylinder replacement in 15/16" size with no avail, I chose to try the 1" master cylinder, with the idea that if it doesn't perform well, I could use it short time, until I could order the 15/16" version online.

But worth try the 1" master cylinder anyway, otherwise I'll live with the doubt of whether it could have worked well, or not.

... While it may not seem like much (7/8" vs. 1"), the size of the master cylinder bore directly affects braking force and pedal feel, which is why the Master Tech I spoke w/ recommended staying with the (smaller) bore size...

... if the 1" works well, it might be the Solution for the Spongy Pedal and -maybe- the Lack of sensitiveness on it.

Or, it could could be a complete Mistake to do such swap, and the Brake Pedal could end being too stiif and / or loosing Brake Power.

Seems like the only way to know if it Works or Not, and if it worth it or not; is to Try it out and do "Real Life Driving Tests" ...
 

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Discussion Starter #213
Don't get me Wrong...

As I posted before, the Brakes on the "KiaStein" has been working Flawlessly, But After some Months Driving it with the 1" Master Cylinder, I could tell in the most Honest way I can, that the increased bore really gets Rid from the Deep Traveling / Spongy Feeling Brake Pedal, But such increased Bore provides increased Volume of Brake Fluid Moved on the lines, which is Versus the Pressure it Has. So, the more Volume moved, the less pressure it has.

I already posted an explanation of the situation before:

...
Panic Braking!

Sunday's early Morning I went alone to a Solitary paved Road and I accelerated the Car to almost 80 MPH, then, being completely sure that no car was following me, I Floored the Brake Pedal like Mad ... It was Really Stiff, but I Locked the Four Wheels, but not completely locked; the car stopped with four screaming tires as it Should with such Panic Braking.

But there is Something Wrong: it requires a Lot of Leg Strength to do that, and the Brake Pedal seemed to have still more Travel that won't go in ... you know, it was at Maximum Pressure, or the Calipers seemed to had some little more pressure left unused.
...

__________________________________________

Conclusion:

Yes, the Sephia Needs a Bigger Master Cylinder for Sure, but ...

No, it don't need to be 1" ... It should work Better with 15/16"

So, as I'm tight on Money now; I will switch cars with my Wife until I could buy online the 15/16" Master Cylinder ...

Long story Short: The 1" Master Cylinder, gives a Tall and Solid Brake Pedal Feeling, which makes braking to feel "Amazing" on Low speeds to Medium Speeds / Average driving situations; but the total Braking Force / Clamping force at the Calipers is Reduced, which is Noticeable during Panic Braking Only.

With the 1" Master Cylinder, is not easy to lock the Wheels, and Panic Braking takes longer distances to Stop, plus the Pedal gets very Stiff on Deep Braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #214
Comparison Photo

So, finally, I obtained the Proper 15/16" Master Cylinder online, from RockAuto.com


Let me Show you the Three Different Master Cylinders Together:



7/8" was the Old one, which came with Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes.

1" was the one I installed when I did the Rear Disc Brakes Swap.

15/16" is the Correct one, for the Four Disc Brakes' Setup.

This is the one I installed now. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #215 (Edited)
Brake Lines

The only problem was that one of the two Outlets from the 15/16" Master Cylinder, was designed for the Bubble Flare fitting, while the other Outlet, goes to a Banjo Bolt, which was designed for the common Flare Fitting.




As I Already changed the Brake Lines on the "KiaStein" to Flare Fittings instead of Bubble Fittings, in order to install the 1" Master cylinder...




...I had to obtain used Brake Lines from a local Junk Yard, to change the one that goes directly to the Master Cylinder...




...since Both brake lines goes from the Master Cylinder to the Distributor Block on the Firewall nearby, it was Easy to Change the one that needed to have Bubble Fitting again, I just needed the proper 11mm Wrench for Brake lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #216
Then, I only needed to "Twist" a little bit, Carefully, the other Brake Line, in order to let it face up the Banjo Bolt on the Master Cylinder.


 

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Discussion Starter #217
15/16" Master Cylinder installed

This is How the 15/16" Master Cylinder looks already installed


 

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Discussion Starter #218 (Edited)
I finished the Master Cylinder Swap, and then, with the Help of a friend I did four complete rounds of Brake Bleeding, each one was done in a Cross Pattern due to the Sephia's Diagonal Brake Lines Setup. We starting from the rear wheel which is more far from the Master Cylinder, then the Front wheel in same circuit, then the other two starting in the Rear; I did twenty deep and hard pushes on the Brake Pedal prior to open the bleeding screw on each wheel, and I bled four times each wheel on each round, so the brake system should be Super air free.

What I noticed immediately after driving the car, is that it now needs way less Foot / Pedal effort for the same stopping Power, but in exchange, the Pedal travels deeper, but the difference is pretty small. Now, instead of Engaging the Brakes with a Tall, Hard pedal, it goes down more travel, little spongy but now the brakes could be "Modulated" during the Pedal's down travel...

So, with this 15/16" Master Cylinder, I gained a Pedal with better Modulation for slow stoppings / speed reductions; which needs ~ 50% less foot effort for giving strong clamping force to the Calipers...

But, the first 2/3 of travel is softer than the last 1/3 of travel, and the main clamping force is on that last 1/3 which still is Hard to press. However, seems like such behaviour is Normal and logically understandable, due to the "Tandem" Dual Diaphragm Brake Booster.

The Brake Power seems to be increased back to "Normal" once again, the Pedal is not stiff as it was with the 1" Master Cylinder, and the Pedal does Not go Deep, as it used to be with the 7/8" Master Cylinder; seems like the 15/16" is in Perfect Balance with the Calipers.

I'll report the overall brakin' Behaviour as time passes by.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #219
Two Weeks Update!

Two weeks passed already, since the "KiaStein" has the 15/16" Master Cylinder...

...and I can assure now that it is way much Better than the 1" master cylinder, because despite that the Pedal is softer and has more down travel, now it needs the half foot effort to stop the car, giving twice clamping force to the calipers.

Please read previous posts here for further details.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #220
Four Months with the 15/16" Master Cylinder, and I am really Sure that it is the Proper size for the Four Wheel Disc Brakes' system, on the Second Gen Kia Sephia; as the Kia Engineers designed it. The 7/8" is for the Front Disc / Rear Drum Setup. Look at Previous Posts for Further Details.

Kind Regards.
 
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