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1985 Subaru Loyale (wagon), 2000 Kia Sephia (sedan), and 1969 Mercury Comet (coupé)
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a Project, and I will need your Help to Successfully finish it,

so any Advice, Idea, Experiences and Suggestions are very Welcome. :)


So, I am perfectionist and I somehow "Need" that my cars run Mechanically as near as Perfect could be Possible, but my Wife's "KiaStein" needs monthly adjustments to the Rear Drum Brake's Shoes and I'm getting very Tired doing that monthly adjustment.

(More info, ~► Here.)

Not only because it is a Pain in the Rear to do such simple Job, due to the Lack of a well designed way to adjust 'em from the outside (There is an unuseful misaligned tiny hole in the Back of the Backing Plate and I never found a tool capable to "Magically" reach the adjuster thru it) and thus mean that you "Need" to remove the Whole Drum to do the Adjustment (many times 'till is done right), but also Because I suffer from Deep & Horrid Gout Foot Attacks some times per year, and during those days, I couldn't do that adjustment and I have to drive my Wife's "KiaStein" because is Automatic and thus mean to use only one foot...

The Rear Drum Brake system found on the Second Gen Sephia uses a Ratcheting Cam (Named "Strut" by Kia) that is suposed to take up play as Brake Shoes wear, but definitively, such thing doesn't work at all due to their bad design, and as the rear brake shoes wear, their surface gets farther from the rotating drum and during braking, the rear wheels spin freely while the fronts are doing the braking effort, because the rear brake pumps can't handle well the extra distance without a useful automatic shoes adjuster, that means that the rear shoes are barely "Touching" the Drums under Braking, while the fronts could be at Maximum clamping force.

So, in order to compensate the normal wear on the rear shoes, the car needs Monthly adjustments to the Rear Drum Brakes to Keep said shoes as near to the Rotating drum as possible, and thus means to have a firm & tall brake pedal, and ensure that it has the proper braking power to be Safe... but I'm really tired of doing that, I already tried with new Adjusters, springs, etc... it is a Faulty design that never worked at all.

Kia found the only Real solution to that problem: To install Factory Rear Disc Brakes.

I Know that there was a "Top of the Line" second gen Kia Sephia (Premium) Model with Factory Rear Disc Brakes, but is not easy to come across one of those in Local Junk Yards.

So, the Questions Are:

Have anybody did the Rear Disc Brakes Swap or Retrofit on a 2000 Kia Sehia Before?

Where I could find Used parts from a Second Gen (1998 ~ 2001) Kia Sephia with Factory Rear Disc Brakes to do the Swap?

Does another Model's Rear Disc Brakes, fit onto the Sephia's Trail arms? ... in order to do a Retrofitting.

If so, which Model? ... Spectra? ... or Another Non Kia, such like Hyundai?

Could I use the Same Cables to enable the Park Brake function?

If someone comes across to a Sephia with Factory Rear Disc Brakes in Good Shape, I will buy 'em from you, so please let me Know.

Also let me Know if someone has already done such Swap or Retrofitting, and please point me to the Thread that has the Info
(I searched and found nothing).

Kind Regards.
 

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Hi Jeszek...
How many lug nuts are on the Sephia and what size rims doe they use?
If they are 4 lug what is the distance between the lugs?
I believe the newer Spectras are 100mm (3.937") like the older Honda rims.

You might want to pick up a "spare" rear Sephia hub and brake and then take that to your local salvage/junk yard and compare the mounting with one on the 04~09 Spectras (they have discs for braking and a drum for the ebrake)..
You would probably have to use the proportioning valve from the newer Spectra also so the fluid pressure would be the same percentage front to rear.

The reasoning behind the spare being the car won't have to be out of commission during your search...

You may get lucky with either the newer KIA Spectras or the newer Hyundai Elantras (06 and newer) as they share many parts between them..

Just some thoughts...
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you Dave for your Kind Reply. :)

Yes, the Sephia does have the Same 4X100 lug pattern as the '01 ~ '03 Spectras, and the Local Kia Dealer's mechanics said to me that they Share the Same Brake parts (¿:confused:?) in the Rear, with second Gen Sephias.

But I want to Know if that is REALLY TRUE, in example: If I find a Local Spectra from that era, with rear Disc Brakes and I Grab them,

► will those fit the Sephia's Trail Arms?

► Does that early Spectras use a Mixed Disc Brake + Drum Park Brake Design for the Rear?

► Will they Work?

Please let me Know...

Kind regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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Greetings Jesek,

A silly question - does the Sephia use star adjuster wheels at the rear brake assembly?

Only ask, because IIRC, each star wheel (adjuster) is -keyed- to each wheel, e.g. one wheel is threaded left-hand, the other right-handed,

--

* Is it possible you (switched) the wheel adjusters on a previous brake repair?

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

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GottaCruse does have a good point there..
"if" you reversed the star adjusters (left and right) they would un-adjust themselves...

The reason I suggested getting an extra hub/brake assembly is so you could compare the Sephias and the Spectra hub/brake ass'y on the Spectra donor sudo-axle in the bone yard.. Remove the Spectra hub/brake and see if the Sephia would mount up to the rear sudo-axle.

The disc/drum you highlighted looks to be the same as what is on my 06..
The 04~05 Specs have some differences from my 06 and the 07~09 have many changes beyond cosmetic sheet metal..Somewhere along the way they did away with the rear ebrake drums and used the discs and rotors for that purpose.. I have seen this on the 08 model I put rear pads on.

How is the "selection" of 05~09 Spectra donor parts s in Honduras?
I guess I could see how far I could get into mine and do some measurements on things like the four hub bolts to axle tube if you can't find the answer there..
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Greetings Jesek, ...
Greetings!


... does the Sephia use star adjuster wheels at the rear brake assembly? ...
No.

GottaCruse does have a good point there..
"if" you reversed the star adjusters (left and right) they would un-adjust themselves...
There's No Such "Star" adjusters on the Sephia.

I Wish they used that simpler design, 'cos usually the Star adjusters could be Reached from the Back (Behind) of the wheel hub, so removing the Wheel & thus the Drum isn't needed.

But no, Kia used a part that they named "Strut Adjuster" see the Photo on the next Quoted text, taken from the Above-Linked Thread:

First, I changed the Rear brake shoes and manually regulated the Brakes to the Top; the Pedal was stiff and Brake power good; while the Parking Brake Lever had enough power to Hold the car in the first two or three tooth. ... :) ...

After three weeks of everyday use, the Brake Pedal got Lower, while the Parking Brake lever needed six or seven tooth to engage. ... :( ...

After two Months of Use since the first regulation, the Rear Wheels' brakes where doing nothing, because the wear on the brake shoes was not compensated by the faulty self adjusting regulators, so the Shoes where too far way to let the rear wheel cylinder brakes do enough pressure to stop the car with the Brake Pedal, also the Parking Brake became a li'l less than Useless. ... :banghead: ...

After Trying to Clean everything up in the Rear Brakes, also trying the Self-regulating procedures used in other cars (Such like Applying the Parking Brake while the car is Moving Forward / Backward with and without pressing the Brake Pedal, etc...) without any success, many many times, I ended doing the Manual adjustment every Month.

Tired of that Monthly rear drum brakes Disassembly / Cleansing \ Regulation; I went to the Local Kia Dealer to buy a pair of Brand New Rear drum brake self adjusting Regulators:




I Really Don't know why Kia named those as "Struts" ... :confused: ... Maybe I'm Lost in Translation again.
Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Many Thanks for the Link with Useful Info!

This is the Kind of knowledge I'm Seeking, before starting the Project:

All together it probably took me 8 hours before I had everything set. I know others could do it in less time, though. ...
The e-brake cables for the discs are different than the ones for the drums. They are the same at the front-side of the car, but different at the calipers. As far as routing and securing them goes, however, its the same.

His Sephia:






 

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Discussion Starter #10
So, Now I Need to get all the needed parts from the Rear Disc Brakes, out of a '01 or '02 Spectra, isn't it? ... I'll search on local Junk Yards but I Bet that all of those Spectras came here with Rear Drums...

So, if Anyone has access to those parts and is willing to Sell them to Me, please send me a P.M. and we could agree a Deal. :)

Kind Regards.
 

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So, Now I Need to get all the needed parts from the Rear Disc Brakes, out of a '01 or '02 Spectra, isn't it? ... I'll search on local Junk Yards but I Bet that all of those Spectras came here with Rear Drums...

So, if Anyone has access to those parts and is willing to Sell them to Me, please send me a P.M. and we could agree a Deal. :)

Kind Regards.
You could, but what I got from that thread is both conversions used -Sephia- rear Disc Brake assemblies (Spindles / back plates / hubs / calipers / e-brake cables) ..

If you get a moment, please take a pic or two of the rear brake setup on your 2000 Sephia and post up here - where / how the rear spindle hooks up to the suspension (trailing arm, etc.) ...

A pic or two of the "front" setup in front of the backing plate may be helpful, but really need to see the setup behind the backing plate -> suspension on your Sephia,

--
I need to make a parts run for the '97 Ford Aspire here (AKA Kia Avella / same lousy rear brake adjuster setup, BTW) at one of the larger salvage yards in New England, I'd be happy to check out what they got, doing this week after next (Aug. 27th), will call them before hand to check, but pics would be a big help..

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

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There is a site called "http://www.kiapartsnow.com/" that shows both the rear drum and disc brakes for the Sephia and "shortened" part numbers.
I guess they don't want you to know the first two numbers...
There is enough info there to "look" at both and "see" the differences..

After looking at my 06 Spec rear disc brakes I'd almost bet if you took from the axles (spindles) and and used the disc parts from mine (06Spec SX) they would bolt to the struts and the lateral cross bars and you'd bypass a lot of up grades over the years... They look pretty much generic at the mounting...
Basically grab the axle/caliper/disc as a whole ass'y.

I'm now researching "if" the Forte' or Soul 5 lug hubs (front and rear) would bolt onto my 4 lug axles/spindles front and rear... Then changing the discs/rotors and rims to 5 lug... Just playing a game in my mind...It would be nice to have 5 lug wheels (more options).
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I Spent my Sunday searchin' among Local Junk Yards, not all of them opens on Sundays but there were some open; and Beside wasting my Time, I only found Rear Drum Brakes from Sephias & Spectras... seems like Rear Disc Brakes are somehow "Unseen" here, in Honduras, 'till the most newer models. (from '05 and up) :(


... After looking at my 06 Spec rear disc brakes I'd almost bet if you took from the axles (spindles) and and used the disc parts from mine (06 Spec SX) they would bolt to the struts and the lateral cross bars and you'd bypass a lot of up grades over the years... They look pretty much generic at the mounting...
That will be Great if they works, but I Lost the access to KiaTechInfo so I could not compare the Parts (and maybe the Parts Numbers'?) in order to be Sure that they'll Fit.

The Kia Sephia "KiaStein" we have, has 4X100 Lugs, but it came with "Universal" 15" Rims, that beside the 4X100 four holes, also has another set of holes at 4X114.3 as Hyundai -and many other brands- uses, so there shall not be a Problem as Long as those rear disc brake's hubs has 4 Lugs.

Please, let me know if you can assure me that the Newer Models' rear disc brakes will fit onto the 2000 Sephia, with minor mods.

... Please take a pic or two of the rear brake setup on your 2000 Sephia and post up here - where / how the rear spindle hooks up to the suspension (trailing arm, etc.) ... A pic or two of the "front" setup in front of the backing plate may be helpful, but really need to see the setup behind the backing plate -> suspension on your Sephia ...
Awesome! ...
... Thank You, I will take the Photos and Upload them here ASAP.

If you find the Needed parts at reasonable price, I can send you the Total Amount; which shall include, beside the price of the needed parts themselves, your Gasoline expenses for the Trip, plus an extra for your time & effort on taking those parts out, also the Shipping & Handling Costs.

I've Purchased many parts in other Forums and the Friends in USA only need to send the Package to an address in Miami, Florida (USA) in my name, to an old Honduran Cargo & Shipping Co. who offers "Virtual Addresses" and I have one with them; so, any package that reaches their office with my Name, is inmediately sent to one of their Local offices in Honduras, where I Pay the Shipping Costs from USA to Honduras at the moment I pick it up.

This is the Honduran Co. in Miami:

~► Gutiérrez Logistics

But I need to know an estimate of the total cost before dealing, and if you accept Payments through PayPal.

Kind Regards.
 

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These are the rear disc spindles/axles for the 2000 through early 2004 Spectras and your Sephia (2001)...
I found the 2000/2001 Sephias and the 2000~2003 (and some 2004) Spectras are the same
You might want to compare them to your spindles...taking note that the calipers are mounted to them and their bolt holes will be missing on your drum spindles. The second pictures for the passenger side are for the front hubs and should be ignored.

New Auto 7 Spindle Rear Driver Side 844 0007 | eBay

Rear Passenger Right Side New Auto 7 Spindle RH Hand for Kia 2003 844 0013 | eBay

also...
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-YuNuTyh57XbV9QVEhOR3FrS00/edit?usp=sharing

I believe these may be worth your time..
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you Dave for your Kind Reply, so I will need to Swap Spindles; that is the Great Information I was seeking with this Thread, in order to do the Swap without missing parts during the Process.

I'll Search for Complete rear Disc Brakes setup, including the Spindles.

Kind Regards.
 

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Be sure to check out "http://www.kiapartsnow.com/" as they have blowups of your rear brakes and suspension...and lots of great info there.
Have you thought about doing a total rear axle replacement from an 05~09 Spectra.
It would save a lot of cutting and redesigning. The crossbar that the axles/spindles mount to is a bolt on (to the body) with lateral arms, axles, calipers, discs, struts, etc...
I'd only suggest you check the total width before attempting that..
Just an idea...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you for the Idea Dave.

However I don't think that a Full Rear Axle & Suspension Swap is Necessary, because two reasons:

1 - The Rear Struts (Coil Springs + Shock Absorbers) are the original ones and Still are working fine, even after more than 150,000 Miles and the Rude / Loaded travels they have to bear on our Horrid Roads, plenty of Potholes and even potholes inside the Potholes; after all that mileage and abuse during all these years, they're still Strong, there are no damage nor weakness of the rear struts, Coil Springs, nor links, etc... which I consider Awesome for a Cheap small family Sedan.

2 - Also, I can not let this car stopped for much more time than a Weekend, 'cos it is my Wife's daily Driver and sometimes we Switch cars, especially during the horrible Gout Foot Attacks that I suffer from time to time... The "KiaStein" is Automatic, so I rest my left foot; while my "BumbleBeast" is Manual and the cable operated Clutch isn't "Soft" precisely... :D ... I Hope you Understand, but I thank you for the Idea, any Ideas are very welcome.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Dear Dave, as Far as I Know, this information ...

... I found the 2000/2001 Sephias and the 2000~2003 (and some 2004) Spectras are the same ...
... is Accurate for the Rear Brake System.

But doesn't apply to the Front Brake system, whose Calipers, Rotors and Links are Different from the late 2001 Models and up, across Sephia and Spectra Lineup.

In other words: I can Swap Rear Brake parts from the '01 ~ '03 Spectras onto my Wife's '00 Sephia, but I can not do the Same with the Front Brakes.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
... If you get a moment, please take a pic or two of the rear brake setup on your 2000 Sephia and post up here - where / how the rear spindle hooks up to the suspension (trailing arm, etc.) ... really need to see the setup behind the backing plate -> suspension on your Sephia...

Today's Afternoon I took many Photos at said Area, but these are the Better Two of Them:







I must write that I had to use an Oversized Washer in order to prevent the Rubber from Slipping from the Sway Bar's Links ...
...

Let me Know what do you Think about that,

Kind Regards.
 

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I know one thing...and that it's a bear to get the long bolt that goes through the lateral arms and the spindle out... I fought with mine and finally cut the nut and the bolt shaft to get close enough to remove the spindle and have a local muffler shop burn the bolt loose.. Just be prepared for that "if" you change the spindles from drum to disc..
I have read that the upper strut bolts can also be a pain...
If you have an oxyacetylene torch and an air wrench then things will go better for you...
Dave
 
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