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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My 2007 Kia Rondo:

So my check engine light goes on the other day. I take it my KIA dealer and they say it's code 90011 - Camshaft positioning sensor error. They tell me that there is a "KIA Bulletin" out about non-oem oil filters causing this error and that I should only be using oem filters. So, they change my oil and put on the new oem filter. They then tell me that should fix the problem, but if light comes back on to bring it back in. I left excited the light was off, and then I am not kidding - 1.3 miles later on the freeway home, all hell breaks loose in my engine! It threw a rod and oil spewed out everywhere.

So, towed it back. They tell me how sorry they are. I tell them I still have 5k miles left in warranty. They tell me I need to show proof of all oil changes and bring them the receipts. I can only track down 9 oil changes for the last 5 years. I methodically changed the oil every 4k miles, many of them i did myself. Did I think to save the walmart receipts for oil and filters? NOPER.

Long story short, they denied my claim for the following reasons: 1. There is a "Kia Bulletin" that came out recently that says I should have only been using OEM KIA Filters and I did not. 2. I could not produce enough receipts to prove that between self oil changes and otherwise were done every 3k miles.

Even if I did get the receipts, they don't sell KIA OEM filters at walmart or autozone, big o, etc.

So I am left with $7k still owing on a car that needs a $5200 engine. God Bless South Korea!

P.S.S. when the dealer first change my oil, they said the oil was really quite clean and could tell I take care of the engine!!

P.S.S.S.S

The dealer told me he will give me $1k trade in on a new Sorrento, so I urinated in his coffee when he wasnt looking.
 

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2007 Rondo EX 4cyl. 5 pass.
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510 Posts
Sorry to hear that Kia wouldn't help you out and the dealer wouldn't go to bat for you. I don't understand why dealers do that. I think that often times warranty claims are denied simply because the dealer isn't willing, or doesn't know how to do up the claim so the required conditions are met.
 

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1995 Procharged Mustang Cobra -- 2006 Grand Cheorkee limted Hemi.
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4,426 Posts
I've seen this many times....YOU NEED TO KEEP RECEPTS! This is not just Kia, I've seen many people get denied warranty without the proper recepts. Chrysler, Jeep, Ford, Toyota. They all demand paperwork to prove you mantained your car. Talk is cheap. I do belive the OP has changed his oil many times, but without paperwork..........
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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Don't give up just yet... Their claim that you must use "their" filter in a KIA service bulletin won't hold water in court... Your owners manual would have to ALSO have this requirement IN PRINT... Any changes in the warranty requirements would have to be sent to you in a registered letter for them to claim you didn't follow their requirements. A service bulletin is an "in house" publication ... not usually seen by the customer.

Also you need to get familiar with the "Magnuson Moss Warranty Act" ...
As long as the parts used in the maintainence and upkeep of your car meet/exceed the manufactors specs and are performed by a qualified technician they can't void your warranty...

They also were not very concerned about the "last repair" . Your comment
"So, they change my oil and put on the new oem filter. They then tell me that should fix the problem, but if light comes back on to bring it back in."
indicates that you were performing the correct required services by bringing it to the dealer and they showed no concern about any serious problem..

Have the engine examined by an ASE certified mechanic... You have ONE bearing and a rod let go..the rest of the bearings and rods as well as the internal condition of the engine WILL show "if" you were taking proper care of the engine...

Try to have this done at their garage and record the teardown on video.. Let them know it may be used in court against KIA... If they won't allow the inspection on their property then have it done at the mechanic's shop BUT have a notary public present and possibly a second ASE mechanic present... A properly maintained engine will show in the teardown as well as a poorly maintained one.

Your warranty is for 100k miles and not for 95k miles... Get KIA corporate involved in this also as well as the "Better Business Bureau" as a negotiator...
Don't give up....We have seen KIA cave when they know that the don't have a strong case...
Dave
 

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10 Optima LX, 07 Rondo EX, 89 Chevy C1500
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Oil and filter inspection, and replacement if needed, is step one for a P0011. I have seen this code fixed multiple times simply by doing an oil change. The dealer was not wrong in doing this.

Is it possibly that it was your engines "time", despite your routine maint. and just having the dealer just change the oil? Yes. Suspicious? Sure. Is there proof of negligence? Probably not.

Should you have kept receipts? Yes.
 

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07 rondo ex-v6 7seat, leather,sunroof.infinity 10 spkr audio,09 honda fit sport 5sp.
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125 Posts
Don't give up just yet... Their claim that you must use "their" filter in a KIA service bulletin won't hold water in court... Your owners manual would have to ALSO have this requirement IN PRINT... Any changes in the warranty requirements would have to be sent to you in a registered letter for them to claim you didn't follow their requirements. A service bulletin is an "in house" publication ... not usually seen by the customer.

Also you need to get familiar with the "Magnuson Moss Warranty Act" ...
As long as the parts used in the maintainence and upkeep of your car meet/exceed the manufactors specs and are performed by a qualified technician they can't void your warranty...

They also were not very concerned about the "last repair" . Your comment
"So, they change my oil and put on the new oem filter. They then tell me that should fix the problem, but if light comes back on to bring it back in."
indicates that you were performing the correct required services by bringing it to the dealer and they showed no concern about any serious problem..

Have the engine examined by an ASE certified mechanic... You have ONE bearing and a rod let go..the rest of the bearings and rods as well as the internal condition of the engine WILL show "if" you were taking proper care of the engine...

Try to have this done at their garage and record the teardown on video.. Let them know it may be used in court against KIA... If they won't allow the inspection on their property then have it done at the mechanic's shop BUT have a notary public present and possibly a second ASE mechanic present... A properly maintained engine will show in the teardown as well as a poorly maintained one.

Your warranty is for 100k miles and not for 95k miles... Get KIA corporate involved in this also as well as the "Better Business Bureau" as a negotiator...
Don't give up....We have seen KIA cave when they know that the don't have a strong case...
Dave
Well said Dave:):):)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Don't give up just yet... Their claim that you must use "their" filter in a KIA service bulletin won't hold water in court... Your owners manual would have to ALSO have this requirement IN PRINT... Any changes in the warranty requirements would have to be sent to you in a registered letter for them to claim you didn't follow their requirements. A service bulletin is an "in house" publication ... not usually seen by the customer.

Also you need to get familiar with the "Magnuson Moss Warranty Act" ...
As long as the parts used in the maintainence and upkeep of your car meet/exceed the manufactors specs and are performed by a qualified technician they can't void your warranty...

They also were not very concerned about the "last repair" . Your comment
"So, they change my oil and put on the new oem filter. They then tell me that should fix the problem, but if light comes back on to bring it back in."
indicates that you were performing the correct required services by bringing it to the dealer and they showed no concern about any serious problem..

Have the engine examined by an ASE certified mechanic... You have ONE bearing and a rod let go..the rest of the bearings and rods as well as the internal condition of the engine WILL show "if" you were taking proper care of the engine...

Try to have this done at their garage and record the teardown on video.. Let them know it may be used in court against KIA... If they won't allow the inspection on their property then have it done at the mechanic's shop BUT have a notary public present and possibly a second ASE mechanic present... A properly maintained engine will show in the teardown as well as a poorly maintained one.

Your warranty is for 100k miles and not for 95k miles... Get KIA corporate involved in this also as well as the "Better Business Bureau" as a negotiator...
Don't give up....We have seen KIA cave when they know that the don't have a strong case...
Dave
Thanks Dave, will be advocate? Just kidding.

So here is the kicker:

I went to go pick up my blown Rondo, and the service manager said "Ok - 1/2 hour of labor comes to $45.00, so if we can get that from you, you will be on your way"...

I looked at him and leaned over the counter and stared him down...he stepped back and said "We'll just call it even then"..
 

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2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD; 2016 Kia Forte5 SX 1.6T A/T
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c'mon, that is insane. Bad oil filter would not cause rod failure.
Bearing - OK, I guess... but not the rod. This is material fatigue.

You do NOT get any lubrication on the rod, do you?
 

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2007 Kia Rondo LX V6 7 Seater, 2006 Toyota Prius Package#7
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91 Posts
I suggest that you take it seriously and fight to get your repairs done under warranty or expenses reimbursed.

Otherwise it becomes a routine practice for these guys, both dealer and Kia to simply deny warranty for any trivial reason.

They need to prove beyond doubt that this happened because you have not used OEM filter and/or not changed oil frequent enough. Otherwise they have to foot the bill. They can not simply deny the claim because they think you might not have changed the oil/fliter etc.
 

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1999 Kia Sephia, 2016 Kia Optima SXL, 2019 Kia Soul Plus
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I find this interesting in the sense that I've dealt with this on numerous occasions and the customer usually gets taken care of. What my fixed ops manager taught me is if we can't prove 100% without a doubt that it was caused by a customer, then we proceed with it as a warrantable repair. Our Kia district managers (DPSM) in the past have asked for proof of maintenance from customers who do their own oil changes and accepted what the customer has stated. I guess its all in how the dealer stated it to the DPSM. A teardown is essential to truly determine why it failed. The valve train should give a clear indication of the engines overall health and maintenance. Simply said: the burden is on Kia and the dealer to prove you caused the engine to fail. Otherwise don't accept no as answer. Get Kia customer service involved first, then the BBB and the states attorney if it needs to be escalated. Best of luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks. What about the fact that I brought it in with the check engine light on, then they do an oil change and tell me that should fix the problem and then 3 miles later it throws a rod. The code was (90011 - Camshaft position error)
 

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2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD; 2016 Kia Forte5 SX 1.6T A/T
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Thanks. What about the fact that I brought it in with the check engine light on, then they do an oil change and tell me that should fix the problem and then 3 miles later it throws a rod. The code was (90011 - Camshaft position error)
Could you be more specific with the rod? I mean, how did that happen? Was there any symptom before - such as noisy starts, poor fuel economy...
Besides, if the engine was opened, how does the rod look like? What about the main bearings?

If the rod was caused by oil or its lack, the bearings are the first to give up, right? The connecting rod (unless we are talking about a different rod) has not much to do with lubrication... sure, it needs some oil next to the piston, but still - it would not cause it to fail.
 
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