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2013 Kia Rio SX 5-Door M/T
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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone experienced issues with the smoothness of gear shifts in their manual transmission Rio? I have the SX Rio in M/T trim and I've noticed that sometimes the shifts aren't so smooth despite having the clutch depressed all the way. Going into reverse I experience it and shifting into 2nd and especially 3rd gear it is noticeably clunky. If I could describe it, it feels like I'm slightly missing a gear shift (when I'm actually not). Anyways, any thoughts on this? I'm definitely going to bring it up to my Kia technician on Tuesday when I go in for my appointment. Bear in mind that I have under 1500 miles on my car...I got it 2.5 weeks ago! Love it to death, and this isn't a deal breaker of course. Just a small annoyance. But then again, good thing this is happening early on while it's definitely under warranty (gotta love that 10 year power train warranty!).
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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Sounds as though the clutch isn't fully releasing. No other reason that Reverse should be clunky, unless you aren't coming to a complete stop before engaging reverse. There's nothing special about 2nd and 3rd gears, except that ratio gap is larger at that end of the 'box (synchro has to work harder if the clutch is dragging).
 

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'13 Rio5 LX Manual, '15 ZX14R, Honda VFR800, Ducati 748, '87 Buick Grand National, '13 Subaru BRZ
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My manual transmission is very smooth, but I must be fully stopped to shift into reverse smoothly. The only issue I have is the fuel injection programming putting a dip in the power at each shift. So if I'm trying to accelerate briskly and I shift into the next gear, the car seems to fall on it's face for a second before it goes.
 

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2012 Rio5 EX 6spd
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59 Posts
Mine is smooth.

Occasionally it doesn't want to go into reverse, a quick clutch/de-clutch and it will go in with no issues. This has been the case for most, if not all the manual transmission cars I have had, to a degree.

I find there can a bit of a 'hole' between second and third gear if you don't rev high enough before shifting into third, but overall I find the shift action actually quite good.

Brian
 

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2012 Kia Rio SLS and 09 Mitsubishi Lancer
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The reverse thing is common amongst all cars. It can get jerky if your not completely stopped.

Normal gears though; depends how your driving. If your driving normally the changeover between gears should be around 500rpm and still keep you within the Kia's peak torque range. If your going slightly harder than normal you need to adjust when to shift properly or wait for the Kia to load up its second set of shift points.

The Kia quickly learns what you are doing and will let you use its other shift points to suit but it has its conditions. The moment you back off it will make you shift to favour economy.

Other than those; low end torque. Most small cars will have this issue just some not as bad as others. The Kia is one of the better ones. While it still has a bit of a drop on harder acceleration it certainly nothing bad enough to put the car down.

The changes I made to mine I dont have these issues anymore.
 

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2013 Kia Rio SX 5-Door M/T
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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah...when I'm going into reverse, it's from a dead stop, usually from a parked position.
 

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2013 Kia Rio SX 5-Door M/T
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Discussion Starter #7
I also did notice the drop in power as well when shifting. Anyone know how to alleviate this without having to reprogram the ECU?
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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I also did notice the drop in power as well when shifting. Anyone know how to alleviate this without having to reprogram the ECU?
I don't know why manufacturers muck around with the accelerator response so much that they foul up smooth transitions between (manual) gears, maybe it's a hangover from the rev-matching which is part of the programming for auto transmissions. Many people have complained about this feature.

If anyone has taken the trouble to read the manual transmission section of the handbook for most cars, you will find that they make quite a meal of explaining the process. It seems that whoever is writing these sections has never really driven a manual car.

How many drivers take the trouble to match the revs, particularly when changing down? Many drivers just rely on the clutch to do the work, and have never heard of heel & toe.
 

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2012 Kia Rio SLS and 09 Mitsubishi Lancer
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I also did notice the drop in power as well when shifting. Anyone know how to alleviate this without having to reprogram the ECU?
Increase low end torque. Whenever we shift we are going to head back down to our lower torque range for the next gear. Quickest and easiest way to increase low end torque without blowing heaps of money are 4-2-1 headers.

For people that want to keep their cars standard; maybe play around with your shifting to find the right balance that your comfortable with. That may be shifting earlier or later than usual.
 

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2013 Kia Rio SX 5-Door M/T
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Discussion Starter #10
Increase low end torque. Whenever we shift we are going to head back down to our lower torque range for the next gear. Quickest and easiest way to increase low end torque without blowing heaps of money are 4-2-1 headers.

For people that want to keep their cars standard; maybe play around with your shifting to find the right balance that your comfortable with. That may be shifting earlier or later than usual.
Know if anyone makes CARB legal headers for our Kia yet? I mean, if it is simply a matter of increasing low end torque, I'll do that over messing with my ECU. I have been playing around with the shifting though as well.
 

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2012 Kia Rio SLS and 09 Mitsubishi Lancer
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Not sure if they are CARB standard as the only ones Ive seen come from Korea. Ive seen a 4-2-1 set-up for the Veloster and a 4-2-1 uneven set-up for the Accent. I would wait a little longer until a Kia set comes out.

Stuff from the Accent has higher successful install compatiability than the Veloster/Elantra/i30 options.
 

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'12 Rio SLS, '13 XR6 Turbo, '15 XR8 S/C
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just match the engine revs with the clutch speed and don't use the clutch to change :p

mine is fine, very nice manual box - clutch is suspect but still works smoothly unless you don't give it enough revs on initial take off.. sends weird signals to the TPS/TB and it goes jerky after the clutch has taken up..
 

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2012 Rio 5 & 2009 Rav4 Sport V6
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How many drivers take the trouble to match the revs, particularly when changing down? Many drivers just rely on the clutch to do the work, and have never heard of heel & toe.
I do. I always match revs when downshifting. I put extra strain on your clutch. You're riding your clutching when de-clutching slowly without matching revs. All I do is blip the gas pedal to get the revs up to where it will be after the shift and I can just drop the clutch and it'll be really smooth. No jerkyness at all. You should give it a try one day and see the difference.

As for heel & toe, I use that a lot too. It's the same as rev-matching when downshifting. The difference here is that you are rev-matching for a downshift while braking. I will step on the brake with my toes, press clutch, slide heel of right foot over to accelerator to blip the gas to get the revs up and again drop the clutch. However, the trick to doing this smoothly is you have to also ease up on the brake as you release the clutch so you don't get engine braking and foot braking. Very useful tools I find when driving a manual.

Mind you, I drive quite sporty like, so if I needed to make the light for a left turn, I'd accelerate to the intersection and then do the heel toe process just before hitting the turn so I can do a fast turn while in full control with the car in like 2nd gear.

I wish my Rio was a manual but I have to share with my dad. As for the smooth upshifts, on my Mazda6, there was a throttle lag on it so it was actually smoother if I step on the gas before the clutch is in the engagement position so that when the clutch is at the engagement point the power would have kicked in already to keep the revs at the correct rpm. I haven't driven the Rio manual yet so I don't know if that is the same case here or not.
 

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2012 Rio 5 & 2009 Rav4 Sport V6
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just match the engine revs with the clutch speed and don't use the clutch to change :p

mine is fine, very nice manual box - clutch is suspect but still works smoothly unless you don't give it enough revs on initial take off.. sends weird signals to the TPS/TB and it goes jerky after the clutch has taken up..
I actually would take the car out of gear without the clutch if I was coming to a complete stop. You just have to find the sweet spot of when you can do it.
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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I always match revs when downshifting. I put extra strain on your clutch. You're riding your clutching when de-clutching slowly without matching revs. All I do is blip the gas pedal to get the revs up to where it will be after the shift and I can just drop the clutch and it'll be really smooth. No jerkyness at all. You should give it a try one day and see the difference.

As for heel & toe, I use that a lot too. .
Sounds likle you do know how to drive a manual! Can you do it with a non-synchro box? I used to have great fun with my Mini-Cooper which had no synchro on 1st.

Had a ride the other day with a relative who has been driving for 40 years and seems to be quite interested in cars. He knew nothing about rev-matching! Many older drivers were brought up on cars with 3-speed manual transmissions where "change back to 2nd if it won't pull in top" was the only strategy; once the engine had nearly expired in top gear, there wan't much rev-matching required before 2nd was engaged!
 

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Sounds likle you do know how to drive a manual! Can you do it with a non-synchro box? I used to have great fun with my Mini-Cooper which had no synchro on 1st.

Had a ride the other day with a relative who has been driving for 40 years and seems to be quite interested in cars. He knew nothing about rev-matching! Many older drivers were brought up on cars with 3-speed manual transmissions where "change back to 2nd if it won't pull in top" was the only strategy; once the engine had nearly expired in top gear, there wan't much rev-matching required before 2nd was engaged!
Rev matching isn't too hard if you know what the RPM will be. I was really familiar with my cars so just by looking at my speed and revs, I would know what gear it was in.

As for non-synchro gear boxes, not an issue, cause my old Prelude had bad synchros. That's how I learned to rev match cause I had to do that to get the shifter into a lower gear. For shifting to first on any of my cars before coming to a complete stop, I'd just double clutch and it'd be fine and it'll go in smooth as butter. Basically have to make sure the engine/flywheel speed matches the transmission speed, which is what double clutching would do. Also had to double clutch to get into 4th on that Prelude too so my feet learned to work really fast which is why I'm more comfortable with the older cars that have heavier clutches. I really haded the 1992-1995 Civic clutches. They were so light that I couldn't lift my foot off the gas fast enough cause I'd press the clutch too fast...haha.
 

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'12 Rio SLS, '13 XR6 Turbo, '15 XR8 S/C
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I actually would take the car out of gear without the clutch if I was coming to a complete stop. You just have to find the sweet spot of when you can do it.
yeah, in the Rio if you want to do that all it needs is a tiny touch of throttle as you're rolling up and it'll come out easy enough. I sometimes accelerate and change gears without the clutch if i'm either bored or my left leg hurts too much from driving through too much peak traffic.
 

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'12 Rio SLS, '13 XR6 Turbo, '15 XR8 S/C
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mine was bad today in about 32deg C road temps, it's very weird. You take off normally, and right AFTER the clutch has engaged and the pedal is up, it pauses for a fraction of a second, then jerks onto the power. It doesn't matter how smooth you are, it'll do it. Take off slowly, or more aggressively, and it doesn't do it. Just 'normally'. Hooray.

When it's doing this, it's also VERY sensitive to throttle input, even in 4th gear, 60-70KM/h. The slightest movement of your throttle foot will make the car jerk slightly. I'm having trouble working out if it's the TPS or the clutch. Only gets bad in the heat.

Still love the thing, but it's a moody cow.
 

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Merc 280SE 1972; Kia Rio S 2012 1.4 petrol; Triumph Tiger Cub 1958
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mine was bad today in about 32deg C road temps, it's very weird. You take off normally, and right AFTER the clutch has engaged and the pedal is up, it pauses for a fraction of a second, then jerks onto the power. It doesn't matter how smooth you are, it'll do it. Take off slowly, or more aggressively, and it doesn't do it. Just 'normally'. Hooray.

When it's doing this, it's also VERY sensitive to throttle input, even in 4th gear, 60-70KM/h. The slightest movement of your throttle foot will make the car jerk slightly. I'm having trouble working out if it's the TPS or the clutch. Only gets bad in the heat.

Still love the thing, but it's a moody cow.
I was beginning to think I just couldn't drive a modern car ... but now I know it isn't just me, I just hope it isn't a serious issue.
 

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'12 Rio SLS, '13 XR6 Turbo, '15 XR8 S/C
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I was beginning to think I just couldn't drive a modern car ... but now I know it isn't just me, I just hope it isn't a serious issue.
so yours is the same as how i described? mine will sometimes also 'rock' a bit after the clutch is up in the same fashion as you're accelerating away, again with perfectly adequate revs applied and clutch fully up.

it seems to me like the action of a leaking master cylinder where the clutch isn't 100% engaging with the pedal release, so i posted this thread for others who've had master cylinder issues to reply hopefully:

http://www.kia-forums.com/3g-2011-rio/81983-2012-rio-sls-manual-clutch-engaging.html
 
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