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1985 Subaru Loyale (wagon), 2000 Kia Sephia (sedan), and 1969 Mercury Comet (coupé)
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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
I carefully inspected Both Rear Drum Brakes' assemblies today, and you're Right, all the Photos I've posted belongs to the Passenger's side in order to avoid confusion; also I posted that side only, because you wrote that said side in your Kia, had the adjuster differently mounted, and in my Wife's "KiaStein" both sides looks equal.



I am impressed the lengths you have gone to assist me ...
You're Welcome! :D



... Your deployed cams are near to (but not touching) the heads of the wheel studs whereas mine are being contacted by the heads of the studs, so what is the difference?? That's the big question??
If your Kia does have Beefy Shoes and the Self "Strut" Adjusters are Good, here is your Big Answer:

I believe that the Springs on your Kia's rear Drum Brakes, are Weak.

Because the only thing that Keeps both Adjusters to Deploy too far, are the Springs, but worn teeth on the Adjusters might add easyness to that abnormal deployment issue. Also the Springs on the Strut Adjusters; you must consider that Weak Spings on the Adjusters could cause that issue.

I also went to my Friend's Repair Shop, he is Proffesional Mechanic and I asked him about your issue, and he agreed with me that Weak Springs seems to be the Culprit, but also worn teeth on the Self "Strut" adjusters, and Aftermarket Lug Bolts could be mixed in the issue.

I Kindly suggest you to:

► Carefully check the install of said self "Strut" Adjusters, I believe that you installed at least one Backwards.

► If the Springs are Old / Worn, obtain a new set of Springs.

► Check if any of the Lug Bolts are Aftermarket, maybe their Head(s) could be Thicker and be in the Way of the Adjuster.


This is a Photo taken today too, of the Self "Strut" Adjuster found on my Wife's "KiaStein"

(same Side of the Rest of the Photos)




If your Self "Strut" Adjusters are old / has Worn teeth, maybe you could buy 'em New; but one last idea could be to remove the Wheel Hub in order to Shave a Little from the Lug Bolts' Heads.
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
I took some more Photos of certain parts, in order to show you Details that might help you to be Sure that your install is alright.


Here you can See how the Parkin' Brake cable goes:




This is the Parkin' Brake arm attached to one of the Shoes:




I have to change the Worn out Shoes...


...with Beefier ones.


I Hope all these Photos & Ideas will Help you.

Kind Regards.​
 

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If your Kia does have Beefy Shoes and the Self "Strut" Adjusters are Good, here is your Big Answer:

I believe that the Springs on your Kia's rear Drum Brakes, are Weak.

Because the only thing that Keeps both Adjusters to Deploy too far, are the Springs, but worn teeth on the Adjusters might add easyness to that abnormal deployment issue.


During my attempts to solve the problem I did install a fresh set of springs. I will replace both self-adjuster mechanisms and hope that solves the problem.

By the way, since the KIA replacement part is the same part for both sides, you would have to invert [upside down] the one installed on the passenger side in order to have the cam facing the forward though not sure it makes any difference.

Again, thank BIG time for all your help. Very much appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
... I did install a fresh set of springs...
I mean the Spring that comes in the "Strut Adjuster" see:



... Again, thank BIG time for all your help. Very much appreciated!
You're Welcome! :D

Please let us Know if that New Self "Strut" Adjusters

and inverting the install position does Solve your Kia's Problem.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Any News / Updates on the Subject?

... I will replace both self-adjuster mechanisms and hope that solves the problem. ...
Since there was no Answer, I assume that change fixed your Sephia's problems.

Kind Regards.
 

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2002 Kia Spectra - rear drum brake self-adjuster problems

Since there was no Answer, I assume that change fixed your Sephia's problems.

Kind Regards.
It is a 2002 Spectra. I replaced both rear drums but not the self-adjuster mechanisms. That seemed to mostly solve the issue but now has begun again on the driver side. Now I will replace the self-adjusters and report back to this forum. Thanks for interest and help!
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
... Thanks for interest and help!
You're Welcome!

The Rear Drums on the Second Gen Sephia and the First Gen Spectra, are the Same.

... and yes, please report back. :)

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Back on Topic...

About the Legendary Weak Brakes on the Second Gen Kia Sephia, the conclusion is that the Faulty Parts are three:

1) Completely Useless self adjusters for the Shoes, at the Rear Drum Brakes: - they lend the Rear brakes to almost do Nothing, So the Front Brakes alone have to bear with the vehicle's braking, with the consequent premature wear to front Rotors & Pads.

2) Bad Designed "Leaky" Proportioning Valves: - they let brake fluid to Leak from their vertical grooves, while let Air to get inside the pipes: Lends to "Spongy" feeling Brake Pedal

3) Small Bore Master Cylinder: - Lends to "Deep Traveling" Brake Pedal.

________________________________________________

The Solutions are:

A) Change the Leaky proportioning Valves, with the Newer Design "Grooveless" improved by Kia. I did that already

B) Increase the Master Cylinder a little Bit, to get rid from the "Deep Traveling" brake Pedal: The original 7/8" Master Cylinder will be ideally changed with a 15/16" Master cylinder, as Kia did for their Luxury Sephias which featured Rear Disc Brakes.

C) Install Rear Disc Brakes: - Coming Soon!

See this Thread for Further information:

~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/103954-need-help-rear-disc-brakes-swap.html

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
About the letter B... "Increase the Master Cylinder a little Bit" ...Kia Motors Changed the 7/8" Master Cylinder to 15/16" on their Luxury Sephias which came ABS with Rear Disc Brakes; also they changed the Single Diaphragm Booster with a Double Diaphragm one as well, as you can see, here:




So, I wanted to change the 7/8" master cylinder, but I had to use a 1" Master Cylinder, because I never found the ideal intermediate size 15/16" in Honduras, where I live.

The 1" master cylinder raises the pedal, gets rid from the Spongy Brake pedal feeling and gives an awesome stronger braking feeling; but it makes the pedal stiff and you must do more leg effort, especially during panic braking ... the ideal change is to 15/16"

I am NOT suggesting nor telling you to do this change. Disclaimer: Use all the information / photos \ videos I post, at your own risk.

You can watch this very short video I did, with footage taken fifteen minutes before I started the Master Cylinder swap job, and footage taken fifteen minutes after that job was done, so you can notice the different Brake Pedal Behaviour on both Master Cylinders, see:



Look at this Thread, for photos and further info on the Sportage's Master Cylinder I used:

~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/103954-need-help-rear-disc-brakes-swap-13.html


► Edit: I forgot to say that since youtube has been blocking some of my Videos, due to the Background Music I used, and copyright blah, blah, blah... Now I'm using Weird small parts of different songs, sorted around my Videos, so their system might not detect any particular song... AND THE RESULTS ARE FUNNY!

:D

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
To increase the Master Cylinder's bore to a Bigger one, Requires to Change the Single Diaphragm Brake Booster, with a Double Diaphragm one, exactly like Kia Did, as you can see on the upper photo. Otherwise your Leg will experience Fatigue from Braking, especially noticeable on Long Distance Travels.

That is Exactly what I Did.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
These are two kinds of Booster + Master Cylinder arrangements
that Kia Used on the Second Gen Sephia:


 

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Discussion Starter #32
These are two kinds of Master Cylinders that Kia Used on the Sephia:


 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Due to the Lack of availability of the 15/16" Master Cylinder on my Country,

I had to use this 1" only meanwhile I obtain the 15/16" Master Cylinder online.





Avoid using this 1" master cylinder. It was fitted there for testing purposses only.


I had to change the Brake Line's Fittings in order to fit this Master Cylinder:


 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
And, due to the Lack of availability of the Double Diaphragm Booster on my Country,

I had to use this one which is almost identical to the original one:





Which is a Mazda Equivalent to the Kia one.​
 

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Discussion Starter #35
These are the Differences Between the Kia Sephia Brake Booster I Removed (on the Left)

And the Mazda 323 / Protege Brake Booster I installed (on the Right):


 

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Discussion Starter #36
The Protege's Booster + Sportage's Master Cylinder installed on the Kia Sephia:






This is the Clearance, between the Booster and the Relay & Fusible Box:





Now I have Much More Reasons to call this car, the "KiaStein"


 

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Discussion Starter #37
So, as I Already Wrote:


About the Legendary Weak Brakes on the Second Gen Kia Sephia, the conclusion is that the Faulty Parts are three:

1) Completely Useless self adjusters for the Shoes, at the Rear Drum Brakes: - they lend the Rear brakes to almost do Nothing, So the Front Brakes alone have to bear with the vehicle's braking, with the consequent premature wear to front Rotors & Pads.

2) Bad Designed "Leaky" Proportioning Valves: - they let brake fluid to Leak from their vertical grooves, while let Air to get inside the pipes: Lends to "Spongy" feeling Brake Pedal

3) Small Bore Master Cylinder: - Lends to "Deep Traveling" Brake Pedal.

________________________________________________

The Solutions are:

A) Change the Leaky proportioning Valves, with the Newer Design "Grooveless" improved by Kia. I did that already

B) Increase the Master Cylinder a little Bit, to get rid from the "Deep Traveling" brake Pedal: The original 7/8" Master Cylinder will be ideally changed with a 15/16" Master cylinder, as Kia did for their Luxury Sephias which featured Rear Disc Brakes.

C) Install Rear Disc Brakes: - Coming Soon!

See this Thread for Further information:

~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/103954-need-help-rear-disc-brakes-swap.html

Kind Regards.

I've already done two of the Three fixes; Now I only need to Change the Rear Drum Brakes, with Rear Disc Brakes.

That will improve braking performance by:

Avoiding the Rear Wheels from Locking easily: that will add Safety.

The Rear Drums are Oval, which somehow is "Normal" after 160K Miles / 15 Years of use in an Automatic Car.

A greater Chamber for brake fluid on the Rear Calipers, will compensate the increased bore Master Cylinder.

Also, as a Bonus: I'll Get Rid from the Monthly adjustments to the rear shoes, due to the Useless Self adjusters on the Rear Drum Brakes.

Kind Regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
As I posted before, the Brakes on the "KiaStein" has been working Flawlessly, But After some Months Driving it with the 1" Master Cylinder, I could tell in the most Honest way I can, that the increased bore really gets Rid from the Deep Traveling / Spongy Feeling Brake Pedal, But such increased Bore provides increased Volume of Brake Fluid Moved on the lines, which is Versus the Pressure it Has. So, the more Volume moved, the less pressure it has.

I already posted an explanation of the situation before:

...
Panic Braking!

Sunday's early Morning I went alone to a Solitary paved Road and I accelerated the Car to almost 80 MPH, then, being completely sure that no car was following me, I Floored the Brake Pedal like Mad ... It was Really Stiff, but I Locked the Four Wheels, but not completely locked; the car stopped with four screaming tires as it Should with such Panic Braking.

But there is Something Wrong: it requires a Lot of Leg Strength to do that, and the Brake Pedal seemed to have still more Travel that won't go in ... you know, it was at Maximum Pressure, or the Calipers seemed to had some little more pressure left unused.
...

_______________________________________________​

Conclusion:

Yes, the Sephia Needs a Bigger Master Cylinder for Sure, but ...

No, it don't need to be 1" ... It should work Better with 15/16"

So, as I'm tight on Money now; I will switch cars with my Wife until I could buy online the 15/16" Master Cylinder ...

Long story Short: The 1" Master Cylinder, gives a Tall and Solid Brake Pedal Feeling, which makes braking to feel "Amazing" on Low speeds to Medium Speeds / Average driving situations; but the total Braking Force / Clamping force at the Calipers is Reduced, which is Noticeable during Panic Braking Only.

With the 1" Master Cylinder, is not easy to lock the Wheels, and Panic Braking takes longer distances to Stop, plus the Pedal gets very Stiff on Panic Braking.

The reason why is that the Shorter the Brake Pedal travel is, the Less Leverage effect you have, and the Leverage effect is the part of this Hydraulic System that gives you the advantage of obtaining strong clamping force: the Deeper the pedal goes, the stronger is the clamping force at the Calipers... so Avoid using the 1" master cylinder.

_______________________________________________

So, finally, I obtained the Proper 15/16" Master Cylinder online, from RockAuto.com


Let me Show you the Three Different Master Cylinders Together:



7/8" was the Old one, which came with Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes.

1" was the one I installed when I did the Rear Disc Brakes Swap.

15/16" is the Correct one, for the Four Disc Brakes' Setup.

This is the one I installed now, but to do so, I had to obtain used Brake Lines from a local Junk Yard, to change the one that goes directly to the Master Cylinder...



Everything went Perfect, Thanks to God.



:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I just finished the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap Job!

 

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Discussion Starter #40
Mystery and Problems: Completely Resolved!

Enough time has passed since the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap and after some Highway Travels and many city daily driving, including some unintentional Panic Braking to avoid accidents; I could assure that the "KiaStein" featuring all the Brake parts updated as I explained in previous posts of this Thread, now has an Outstanding braking Behaviour, using way less Space to Stop, and Without Lockin' the Wheels too Hard.

As I explained, the car needed these parts:

Improved "Groveless" Proportioning Valves.
to avoid air getting onto the system / leaking brake fluid.

Increased Bore Master Cylinder + Dual Diaphragm Booster.
to solve the "Deep Traveling" brake pedal, which goes even Deeper with Rear Disc Brakes, due to the increased Brake Fluid Chamber on the Calipers.

Rear Disc Brakes.
to get rid from the noisy rear drums and their useless self adjusters, that lead the drums to do almost nothing, letting the front discs to bear almost alone with the vehicle's braking, with the consequent premature wear / warp of the front brakes.


Unlike the useless rear drum brakes, the Rear Disc Brakes' setup on these Sephias is Awesome; the only drawback is that the Parking Brake on the Drums is Stronger than the Parking Brake on the Discs. After the install I also cleansed and painted the front Calipers with same High Temp anti-rust ceramic paint; let me share a couple of Photos:

The Front Calipers:



(By the Way, here you can see the '03 Spectra T8D engine)



the Rear Calipers:



So now I can Assure that the Weak Brakes problem on my Wife's Kia Sephia, the "KiaStein" has been completely Solved, and if you review carefully this thread, you'll notice that the Kia Engineers did almost the same upgrades I did, on their Sephias that featured Rear Disc Brakes from Factory.

Disclaimer: Use all the information I post, at your own Risk.

Kind Regards.
 
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