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RIP :( 2010 Pro_Cee'd - Infra Red 2
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Impressive stats! 2 seconds faster from 0-100kph and 20 kmph faster too :D
That's a good difference mate, I bet you are really happy with those results.

Can you post the HP & TQ graph please, interested to see before & after numbers.

Wouldn't really know you've changed much under the hood either, which is nice, but yeah she needs a clean for sure :p
 

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09 Pro-Ceed 1.4 ZR7
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But those numbers dont look right? 159km/h is only 98mph and a stock Ceed will most certainly go faster than that. The black line that tops out at only 111mph.

Im guessing the small blips in the line are gear changes in which case the red line is only 4th while the black line is 5th?
I guess the dyno operator backed off. I know that with my bike HP and Torque figures are obtained in a 4th gear roll on rather than through the gears. And anyway, speed figures on a rolling road are totally irrelevant really.
Unfortunately that graph doesnt tell us much beyond the fact its faster but that would always be the case with a turbo on it. As Dubster says, i would like to see the before and after HP and Torque figures to see what has really been achieved with the turbo conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter #147
To AyJay: this isnt top speed :)
Gtech measures speed until you stop accelerating, but the top thing that it measures is first 402 meters.
I still didnt drive top speed but i can tell you for sure that it goes 195 (187 is stock top speed).
Black line is turbo 1.4, red line is stock 1.4 :)
Again, this isnt dyno, it is gtech - measure taken on the street (movies i posted) with a device that works with gps.
Maverick will maybe explain it better then me...
 

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Like jajceko wrote, this is G-Tech runn not dyno runn!

Dyno measure torque and HP!
G-tech measure difference in acceleration 0-100km/h time, 1/4 mile time… by my opinion it is more important how car goes on road, it is not just the numbers (HP/Nm) that matters!

2AyJay; this graph show exactly how much faster car is! Acceleration in km/h vs time is best if you want to see how faster your car really is :)

From the measurements car should have 158HP on 0,5bar boost :)
 

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Im well aware of what a dyno does, ive had my bike on one enough times! You can measure road speed as well as HP and Torque!

If i were paying for engine work or a turbo i would want to see before and after dyno charts of HP and Torque so i could see where my money went and what i got for it.

But then as i didnt pay for this work i guess it doesnt mater does it!

To be honest, im suprised that youre happy to quote an "about" figure for the horsepower. Sure you have a graph of road speed but a dyno graph will tell you more if you know how to read it. Its not just about how quick it is flat out but what the power and more importantly the torque curve is like. Its no good having nothing low down then loads of horses at the top end, you want a good spead of power throughout the rev range on a road based car. A dyno graph will show this better than any speed graph ever can!

So come on, get it on a dyno and show whats been acheived please!!!!!!!
 

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Im well aware of what a dyno does, ive had my bike on one enough times! You can measure road speed as well as HP and Torque!

If i were paying for engine work or a turbo i would want to see before and after dyno charts of HP and Torque so i could see where my money went and what i got for it.

But then as i didnt pay for this work i guess it doesnt mater does it!

To be honest, im suprised that youre happy to quote an "about" figure for the horsepower. Sure you have a graph of road speed but a dyno graph will tell you more if you know how to read it. Its not just about how quick it is flat out but what the power and more importantly the torque curve is like. Its no good having nothing low down then loads of horses at the top end, you want a good spead of power throughout the rev range on a road based car. A dyno graph will show this better than any speed graph ever can!

So come on, get it on a dyno and show whats been acheived please!!!!!!!
Couldn't have said it better! thumbs up!
 

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Discussion Starter #151
to AyJay: i am not planning on getting a dyno resoults because i dont need it. i just made gtech measure because of you guys. what i do know is that i am happy with how my car goes...no matter what the numbers will show :)
i went into this project because i wanted a turbo...i wanted to hear turbo sucking air and i wanted to hear blowoff. if it has 140, 150 or 160 hp i dont really care. i know how it goes and thats fine with me :)
as far as my money....like you said...it wasnt you who payed :)

so...enjoy what i post...or dont...i can just tell you that it is a completly different car that i am driving now...
 

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09 Pro-Ceed 1.4 ZR7
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Just out of curiousity, if its not been on some sort of dyno, how was the fuelling remapped? I assume there has been some sort of change to the ECU to allow for the turbo? I guess you could just install a ready made map but its no substitute for a proper custom map.

Im not trying to argue, im just genuinely curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #153
to AyJay: mapping is done on the street. on some sort of a polygon where the gtech measurement was made. and serial ECU has remained intact, piggyback SMT was added for 5th injector. car works on LPG and gasoline in every stage (normal driving and aggressive driving).
 

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jajceko you have a dyno result with the power and torque? beaicause this diagram you put shows the acceleration
 

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Dyno figures are not always what they appear to be. In a perfect world figures before and after to show the improvement and where it is (for example, loads of top end with all the low down power lost is money wasted) would be nice but not all dyno operators are honest. When I was racing I used a local chap who was down to earth and did a good job (see later for what he could do) but although he would set up my car perfectly his dyno figures were embarrassingly low. I used to accept that if the engine was giving as much as it could then I was happy and just had to drive it to its limits, loads of pots to prove it. The best dyno I had was the speed trap at the end of the strait one of the circuits we used regularly, providing the wind was not behind you or into the car you could use those figures to see how you were really performing, regardless of the weather you could see how you compared to others. Some with huge claimed bhp went away very disappointed I can tell you.

But in the paddock power wins races and many competitors would be boasting about how much extra power the dyno had found them only to discover out on the track they were no faster. The operator had simply adjusted to loading to ensure the figures produced were higher than before and given them a bill to match.

My dyno chap would pull the same trick and tell people they needed a new engine, spent several thousands of their money, give them a high figure to make them happy and once on the track they would find little improvement.

Once did a RR shoot out organised by one of the local competitors at his workshop. My engine produced the best BHP and torque figures on the night by a decent margin and at the end of the session the owner put his similar car on the rollers. It accelerated like a bullet and most looked impressed when it produced huge amounts of power, some even asked him how much a similar engine would cost. All he had done was lower the loading and tweak to software, that weekend I beat him as usual and was faster on the straits.

I have mapped my current engine on the road using a data logger, wideband lambda and software but it took ages to get it spot on, probably 20 hours on the road and twice as much time processing the info and tweaking the map. Commercially it would be a disaster but it was my own time and I enjoyed it. To compare my before and after power I use a local 1 in 8 and floor it at 30 in 3rd and let it run to the limiter. When I compare the acceleration times I can tell if there is an improvement but in truth the differences have been very small, too small to make much difference. Since the car is now only used on the road the biggest improvement I was looking for was driveability and economy, that has been achieved with the flexibility meaning 3rd is the only gear you need for overtaking (2nd was needed previously) and mpg has risen from 23 mpg to 31 mpg. this has not affected the 30 mph - limiter up the 1 in 8, I have the best of both worlds.

On e-bay last week there was an engine for sale identical to mine, the owner claimed 180 bhp, that is a bit high, mine is estimated at 175 max. In the listing it said a simple adjustment of the map would increase the power to 230 bhp. Total bollocks, if it were possible I would do it and hit the tracks again. To get 230 bhp I would need a steel crank, steel rods, forged pistons, dry sump lubrication, race cams, etc.etc. £5000 at least if I did the work myself. Remember we are talking normally aspirated and not turbo here.

What is needed now is some reliability to enjoy the extra power, a fast engine that breaks is not a desirable feature.
 

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I see that here is a lot of misunderstandings…

AyJay – dyno is ok if you just want to look numbers. If jajceko will want we will put his car on dyno. That is not a problem!

On the other side you must know that dyno measurement puts unnecessary stress to engine and decreases its durability.
You say that dyno will show you everything but I can put two dyno charts and you will see that besides numbers and nice graph you can’t see anything that really maters on the road.

In one case there is 1.8T with 0,5 bar boost (T3 turbo, and SMT) and 198HP, and other is 2.0T with 0,6bar boost (T3 turbo, and Unichip) and 223HP measurement.
Only difference is electronics and two different tuners that did maping, car weight is the same (10kg diferrence).

First car is 0,5sec faster on 1/4mile with the same driver! You can’t see that from the dyno cant you?
On the track everyone will look at your time, not on your dyno :)

We are building cars for race purpose (rally and circuit races, drag…) and dyno numbers are last thing that meters, acceleration vs time is the that meters!

We can make car that push 300HP and barely goes low 15sec 1/4mile if we do ignition map wrong. In your case you will be happy with 300HP dyno graph that you can show to your friends but drivability will be poor. It is true that car will go fast in one segment of rpm’s but not all the way! You can’t see that from dyno but you can se it from time vs acceleration/speed :)
Time vs acceleration/speed is only certain thing that will show you for what you spend your money!

For racing purpose we are making completely different graph that we call “accelerating value” in witch are included HP/Nm in all rpm range, gearbox ratio, tyre size, weight of the car, time spent in gears etc…



Seven7; :clap:
 

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09 Pro-Ceed 1.4 ZR7
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We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this topic.
A dyno is a very useful diagnostic and reference tool.
And any figures can be massaged and manipulated by unscupulous people, you could just as easily do a "flat out" run on your system but not use full throttle then do a proper full throttle run and hey presto, instant gains!
 
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