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Hi there! Have been reading with interest (and worry) everyones's experience with Kia Carnival. I purchased a new Kia Carnival from dealership in October 2003. Have had it serviced at recommended periods and it still has low mileage (16,300km's ). All was going well and i was v. happy with my car until the 18 month service. A few days before it was due i noticed the engine was making a scraping noise. I rang service department and they said they'd look into it at service. Anyway, ended up needing 4 cams changed. (1 weeks work where car was in service department). Since then it has not been the same. When we got the car back the engine was vibrating like crazy causing seats/interior of car to shake. Took it back and complained. They took it back for 2 days and apparently it had 'skipped a timing tooth?' so they fixed that problem. The car was still not right so had to take it back again. This time mechanic denied there was anything wrong and had to argue with them to take it into workshop. Finally they took it in (one week this time) and apparently changed the tensioner. This made no difference so ended up taking it back a 4th time. This time all they did was speed the engine up by tampering with some screw in the motor which is not meant to be touched. It used to run at 800rpm in idle and is now running at 950rpm in idle. Obvioulsy they have speeded the engine up to mask the underlying problem and the vibration is not so noticeable. Also the fan often turns on to cool the engine down after a 5 minute drive on flat roads. To cut a long story short, ended up getting the head technician for WA to come and have a look at it, he basically denied there are any problems and they are refusing to do anything further. The vehicle still vibrates, it stinks of petrol some mornings when starting the engine, it is using more petrol, it makes a 'tappity noise' from the engine and it makes a crunching noise when you channge gears (is an automatic). I have not been allowed to talk to this 'head technician' to enquire further as he is hiding behind public relations. I have practically been accused of making up the problems as they are denying there is anything wrong with it. I have been treated rudely, extremely bad service and customer relations. I have been told by another kia head mechanic that it will never be the same and to 'just learn to live with it' and that 'with all mass manufacturing you get a few lemons along the way!' I am at my wits end. It has been a frustrating, tiring and upsetting process. The car still has another 1 year warranty plus 2 years extended warranty. But it seems that they are trying to mask the problems until my warranty runs out as they can see i do low mileage so my guess is they are hoping nothing major will happen until after the warranty period. I am in the process of writing a letter giving them 10 days notice to fix it before i lodge a complaint with consumer affairs. I would not recommend to anyone to buy a kia carnival. Would really appreciate any feedback or advice on this matter. Thanks - : Bob. :57:
 

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2003 Kia Sorento
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What reason did they give you for replacing all 4 cams?

Your car is not a lemon, your dealership is. I'd like to know the reason for replacing 4 cams, but all of your problems sound like they're related to the guy doing the repair, not the van. Do you have another dealership you can go to? If not, ask the dealership you went to if they'll flip the bill for you to have it fixed correctly somewhere else. It sounds like the timing may be off, which they can check with their scan tool (sometimes).
 

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KIA's 2000 Carnival, 2008 Magentis, 2005 Optima
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I have a 2000 classic and although I don't have your problems. I would agree with Kiamech that it appears the timing of the cams is off spec. I am a mechanic just not a a KIA mech, but I have done the timing belts on my engine (there are three of them) and I can assure you it would be very easy to get the cam timing wrong. Particularly the back of the engine (exhaust cam) belts that have 2 marks close together one for the rh bank and the other for the LH bank depending on which side you are working and it would be easy to get them reversed as access and visibility is not great. Now I am not saying the dealer mechs are no good but it could be done by any body.
 

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Hello Bore,

I agree with most of what Classic Boy and Kia Mech have said.

IMHO it's the liners.

Be that as it may as Kia Mech said it it's not the van, tho' it has its own peculiarities its the service personal, they do not understand the engine, the support is not there.

Of course there are good and bad but you only have to read the posts on this forum and others to see there are real problems with the engines as fitted to the Aussi Carnivals, mix that with mechanics who haven't a clue how to resolve matters and your left in the mire with out a paddle.

Without a doubt, without any further delay regardless if you can resolve the matter with Kia arm yourself with an independent engineers report, two if you can stretch to it and keep it/them close to hand.

Show the report to Kia, if they can't resolve the matter take your case
to the CTTT giving Kia notice of your intentions, remember, ( if you can )
to claim all costs back to the last postage stamp.

Living in the UK and owning a diesel Sedona I don't have the same problems
but a lot of the earlier UK petrol versions were prone to problems.

As I stated in another post, "Kia would rather be felt of as incompetent or poor build then recall, it's cheaper".
Seacam
 

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On a side note, I replaced an engine the other day and the 3.5L's we have in the states do not have the liners. The piston rides on the machined surface of the block instead of the liners. Maybe the other engine options are different.
 

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2003 Kia Sedona
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I think the 3.5L engine is a Hyundai model, I'm not sure about the 2.5L model as I've not really looked at them.
But some people think them to be a Rover engine!

Oh and KiaMEch you were saying on another thread about the Sedona being around after Hyundai took over Kia.

I don't think so, because the Sedona was starting to be imported into the UK in 1999 and I'm sure Hyundai took over Kia in 2000ish

So the Sedona would have been body in white long before Hyundai were able to do anything. I think the second series which came along in 2001 over here are a great improvement over the first, which may certainly have had something to do with Hyundai.
 

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Hello Kia Mech,

I know of no other UK modern day ( 10 years ) engine fitted with liners, usally in an engine rebuild you rebore the block and fit oversize pistons and they ride on the surface, if that's not an option you reline.

Relining a block is not nessarily a bad thing, done correctly with a clasic car.

It seems to me Kia has reconditioned/adapted some blocks of some discription or other used them in the 2.5 Aussi Carnivals and off loaded them.

What I don't understand is there are so many complaints with the 2.5 engines in Australia, why these owners don't get together and bring a class action, it's easy to do.
Seacam
 

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The 2.5 V6 used in carnival/sedona is a Rover Design KV6, it's a clever design, and worked very well in 4 cylinder form, currnetly works well in the V6 form now that rover had it sussed, but Kia got the rights to the first gen design, which was poor.
The engine is all alloy, with wet liners.
 

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Hello Murphwiz,

Is the 2.5 KV6 the same engine as fitted in the wedge shape UK Rovers of
15/20 years ago, ( ex cop cars ).
Seacam
 

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That makes sense. If you have a '69 Camaro with a 302, you'd want to do whatever it took to save that block. I'd also imagine that the aluminum blocks would have liners, for obvious reasons. The 3.5L in the states is cast, hence no liners. I had no idea that the Aussie engines were aluminum.

The 3.5L engine is all Mitsubishi. The '06 Sedona will have Hyundai engines.

You're right about my timeline. I'm viewing it from the USA, and our first year of the Sedona was in '02. We seem to get a lot of cars later than everyone else.
 

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Hi seacam the text is here from the page I linked to.



The KV6 version of this engine was first used in the Rover 825, but it should be noted that this was a very different beast to the similarly-named power unit that would find its way into the Rover 75 and MG ZT. An insider described the earlier engine as very much a practice run, produced in an almost hand-built way - unfortunately, that led to fragility in the 825, and many power units expired before they hit the 60,000 mile mark.

When discussing the KV6 with a Longbridge engineer, Julian Donald was told of the changes: "I asked him if the cylinder head design of the KV6 was basically just ¾ of a 4 cylinder engine. He said that it was on the early ones used in the 800 but that the whole engine had been redesigned for the 75 to make it narrower to fit under the shorter bonnet." According to Brian Gunn, other differences between the early and late K-Series engines were put in place to improve reliability: "The differences between the early and late KV6 are that the block/liners are dimensionally more accurate, with more tolerance bands. The heads are the same, although Rover changed the top covers. The inlet manifold is totally different - it does not have the dual butterfly-type throttle body like the early one. The engine management has also been changed in favour of the Siemens 2000 system over the earlier MEMS 2J system. Things like the acoustic cover have been changed in appearance, as well as detail plumbing - and other things that go with an "improvement".
 

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That is it, it is identical to the motor in the australian carnivals, it just needs KIA in place of Rover.

I added the pic from the linked website.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi All!
Thanks for everyones advice/information on my Kia Carnival problems!!! :clap: :clap: It's great that there are so many helpful and friendly people out there.
Well lateset news is that my car is going from bad to worse and i've had enough!! Still not getting anywhere with Kia Australia. I went today to give them letter advising of 10 working days to fix problems before i contact consumer affairs. The service manager practically ran for the back door when he saw me and i was told i needed to make an appointment (just to hand him a letter - 2 seconds of his time!) I have done more research and found out more interesting facts. Apparently at any given time in Australia at least 7 Kia Carnivals are off the road with problems and apparently Kia are using old Mazda technology on their engines which is not suitable for the Kia Carnival vehicle??? Am not a mechanic myself, does this sound possible?
Anyway had been considering it for a while and after the response i had today decided i wanted nothing more to do with Kia Australia and have had enough of worrying if my car is going to break down for good!!!
I visited the Mitsubishi dealership on my way home and test drove the Mitsubishi Grandis. I looked into Mitsubishi forum and related articles on the internet and there are not really any negative comments regarding Grandis. Everyone seems happy with their vehicle. I took the plunge and traded in my Kia for the Grandis. :57: I got a great trade in price (exactly what i wanted as the car still looks in top condition i have not lost too much on it.) Anyway i get my new Grandis next week and am feeling somewhat relieved at getting rid of my Carnival problems. If i had let the vehicle get any worse or more mileage on the clock i would have just lost more money on it so i think i got rid of it at the right time.
So wish me look that all goes well with my new vehicle!!!!
For all of you that are still having trouble with Kia Australia i wish you luck as it is like 'hitting a brick wall'.

Thanks all

Bore :thumbsup:
Ps. HelloKiaMech - In answer to your questions they didn't give us a clear reason why they were changing 4 cams they just said it was unusual for them to "go" this early but they needed replacing .Unfortunatly we couldn't take it to another service department because we purchased an extended warranty which locked us into going to that particular dealership or we'd loose the warranty. - thanks and regards!
 

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'09 Kia Carnival, '10 Kia Grand Carnival
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Well! We have a 6 month old '05 Carnival & so far apart from a temperamental DVD Player & the famous "Strut Thump" (only intermittent ATM) we've been extremely happy. We actually knew of the liner problems before we bought, but all the advice we could get (NOT from Kia) was that they'd fixed it in our model.
Question: Is the current 2.5 the "updated" KV6 or still the "old" design?
Is the 3.5 V6 in the U.S. versions the same as the 3.5 in the Sorrento?
This has been mentioned as being a Mitsubishi engine, which makes sense as that engine sits across the road from us in a Mitsu. Magna!
The new '06 Sedona/Carnival has a 3.8 V6, mentioned as being a Hyundai engine. This also makes sense as Hyundai owns a large chunk of Kia. Mitsubishi also owns a large chunk of Hyundai & has just released here the Magna replacement called the "380" with - you guessed it - a brand new 3.8 V6!
Question: Is the 2.7 V6 in the Sportage/Optima a larger KV6 or is it the Hyundai 2.7 V6 that graces the Santa Fe/Tiburon? Gets complicated, doesn't it? :)

We'll just cross our fingers, continue to drive it gently (3000 - 3500 rpm is quite adequate) & keep a very careful eye on it! :57:
 
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