Kia Forum banner
41 - 60 of 89 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,960 Posts
There seems to be a change over date to different hardware/software in the ECM.
There is a before and an after date you will need to take into consideration when purchasing the ECM.
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Alright guys Ima need your help on this, I got some more info that I think will be valuable!

I had my Father Inlaw tow me and I used mostly 2nd gear to attempt a pull start and as follows are the results of what transpired.

When you turn the key on without attemping a start then various lights pop up on the dash which once the car is running they go away. When being pulled in 2nd gear with the clutch out up to 40mph the car would act just like it was running. The lights on the dash would go off,the accessories worked,it even sounded and felt like it was running untill you pressed the gas then it would just make a bogging down sound.

Flooring it in 2nd while being towed resulted in it bogging down but when youd put the clutch in it would try and keep the rpm's but would go to from 2-3thousand to 0 in about 3-5 seconds or so.

While in 2nd gear and slowing to turn around it would act like it was running by starting to jolt when almost stopped like it was stalling,acting exactly like it was stalling.

Also when we got up to around 20mph and accelerating it would backfire a few times, VERY loudly, which leads me to believe its getting fuel and spark but they are not working together correctly?

It feels like its soooooooo close to firing up... Any questions about behavior of the car while being towed please ask, I'm hoping this gave us enough clues to pin point it or get lots closer to pin pointing the problem!

God Bless Y'all!

Special shout out to Dave for taking 47 minutes and 46 seconds (besides all the posts and drawings here) out of his day to talk too me, he helped me out tremendously, this forum is blessed to have a man like him!

Thank you all for your help so far!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
E90.J91K,

Have you confirmed (static) mechanical timing at all, since the issue started?

Sounds like your testing w/ Dave confirmed good power to the coil packs, etc. & IIRC above, everything is new (coil packs/wires/plugs/power lead) there..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Is the static timing any different than TDC on the cams and crank? Also should they be TDC or toed in abit? Dave mentioned something about that but he wasn't sure.

Yes good power to them and based off of pictures of other Sportage's the leads are hooked up correctly. None of it is new though, and I need to get different spark plugs, I have the bosch's that are 2 pronged and Dave informed me that they where no good and to get ngk's but I'm out in the country so I hadnt been to town yet to get that done...
 

·
Registered
98 sportage 2.0 4WD
Joined
·
38 Posts
I am happy to give you a call as well - PM me your number and I will check the time difference and see if we can chat on the phone.

To answer about the CAS is the same as the CPS.

PS: Like your idea about the FE3 engine - i owned a FE3 which I turboed rfom stock and took it from 110 - to 239kw at 15psi - the best fun I ever had. I will also keep the engine from the Sportage before selling anything - 9:1 compression is perfect for any project and they are one of the strongest engines in the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
Is the static timing any different than TDC on the cams and crank?
No different, it is the -physical- alignment of the (I)ntake, (E)xhaust cams and (#1) Piston (via Crankshaft) with each other..

That physical alignment is kept for all (4) cylinders, via the Timing Belt.

Also should they be TDC or toed in abit? Dave mentioned something about that but he wasn't sure.
They should be in proper alignment for all (3).. The (I) and (E) cams should not be toed-in, or toed-out, when #1 piston is at TDC.

--
Can confirm #1 piston TDC by pulling spark plugs and placing a dowel or screwdriver in spark plug hole for cylinder #1 (closest to front of motor), manually turning motor clock-wise -> using crank bolt and watching rise/fall of screwdriver to confirm #1 piston matches TDC mark on harmonic balancer,

For (I) and (E) cams, pulling valve cover and confirming that the (I)ntake and (E)xhaust cam lobes pointing opposite each other, towards the outside of the head:

(I)ntake cam lobe should be pointing (<-),
(E)xhaust cam lobe should be pointing (->).

--
At the minimum I would remove the upper timing cover, pull the plugs, put the vehicle in neutral, and confirm Timing Belt integrity by turning the crank bolt, clockwise, using a ratchet/socket.. To confirm the TB is not missing any teeth / that the (I) and (E) cam index marks line up w/ the Crank TDC -and- (#1) piston TDC ..

** If your Sporty is a 'condition unknown' purchase and/or you removed either of the (I) or (E) cam pulleys from the cam, then I would (remove) the valve cover and -confirm- physical cam location in relation to (I) and (E) TDC.. **

--

If you have -any- doubt about physical timing e.g. "Also when we got up to around 20mph and accelerating it would backfire a few times, VERY loudly, which leads me to believe its getting fuel and spark but they are not working together correctly?" then I recommend you -reconfirm- timing..

re: DaveSpectra helping out, very cool. :cool:

--
** I dunno what checks you discussed w/ Dave, so I would review above w/ him, to make an informed decision if you need to proceed w/ above,

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,960 Posts
He mentioned that the ECM was loose when they got the car. I take that to say that they were "looking" at possibly the ECM as a problem or that they swapped it out before they sold the car (intermittent bad one??).
I know I normally don't suggest replacing an ECM normally but this "might" be one case... The timing I would think is probably "out" at least now... I thought GottaCruse would give the "correct" toe in/toe out alignment.
Gotta go as I'm changing TB belt /AC belt /and plugs in another Spectra today.
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
The pic of the timing cover pulled back is with the piston all the way up as seem by the rifle cleaning rod sticking in there in the pic.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
Joined
·
6,960 Posts
Engine looks good inside for all the mileage on it...
The plugs are a definite No No.. As I said before...
Multi-fire Bosch plugs don't work well with KIAs they cause misfire codes.
GottaCruse will need to comment on the cam timing marks..
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
Engine looks good inside for all the mileage on it...
The plugs are a definite No No.. As I said before...
Multi-fire Bosch plugs don't work well with KIAs they cause misfire codes.
GottaCruse will need to comment on the cam timing marks..
Dave
Dave,

It's impossible to tell without the (full) cam pulleys exposed:

It appears the pic was taken with the motor at Cylinder #4 TDC / the cams appear 180 degrees out-of-phase in the picture..

*** E90.J91K really needs to fully remove top timing cover & fully expose the cam pulleys & markings on them to confirm proper alignment ***

*** The cam lobe positions on #4 cylinder are the same position they should be at on #1 cylinder, front of motor / closest to the cam pulleys ***

I'll try to get some pics on the parts Sporty here and post today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 ·
So the piston closest to the radiator is piston #4? Also I got 5 new ngk's today, whats the best gap for them? I had planned on pulling the cover off completely tomorrow but now I have to sand fight tomorrow cause it rained last night so idk if I will get it done tomorrow or not.

GottaCruise are you saying it looks wrong,the timing? Also yes I was pleasantly surprised of the way it looks in there :)

Also no idea on the cam lobes, would love to know too though and those pics would be awesome and very helpful!

Thanks again for all the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
So the piston closest to the radiator is piston #4?
** NO - It is cylinder #1 !!! **

GottaCruise are you saying it looks wrong,the timing?
I cannot tell from the limited view of the cam pulleys, you really need to fully remove and expose the full timing setup to visually identify proper timing mark lineup ..

From the (limited) view in your pic, best I can tell is cylinder #4 is at TDC / ready to be fired, as stated ..

See attached pics..


..
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Okay so attached are pics of the the cams fully exposed with piston #1 TDC. Let me know what you think plz.

I have a question. In the pic the E and I are lined up on the right side with the the E and I on what holds the cams in. If I had timed it ( I've had everything off and timed it up myself) with the E and I switched around ( turn cams half a turn and the I is where the E is on the "cam holders") would the crank pulley be off half or would it have turned a whole rotation and still be timed in?

Also what could the white marks on the cams be??
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Caribou, Otter, Buffalo
Joined
·
2,689 Posts
With the white marks @ 12'0' clock, the #4 valves would be closed, making #4 TDC(c) if the crank (piston 4 is set to highest level). A 360* rotation on the main crank would then position #1 TDC(c)... Philip
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,248 Posts
re: the white marks on the (I) and (E) cams, could be from the factory, or from another mechanic while performing a TB change on the vehicle previously.. Ignore them.

*****
From the pic, the (I)ntake and (E)xhaust cams are correctly indexed for Cylinder #1 TDC / the cam lobes are in the correct position for Cylinder #1 TDC,

* the (Crank Gear) index should also be lined up / the index mark on the Harmonic Balancer should be pointing at the TDC mark on the lower timing cover ..

*** Providing that the Crank Gear index / Harmonic Balancer index mark also match to TDC with the (I) and (E) cams positioned in the pic, you have confirmed the engine has correct (Static) timing, ***

*****

Ignition: make sure the short leads at the bottom of each coil pack are positioned over cylinders #4 (at back of motor) and #2 (2nd from the front),

long lead for coil pack on #4 goes to cylinder #1 ( 1/4 )
long lead for coil pack on #2 goes to cylinder #3 ( 2/3 )

--
make sure all hoses removed are installed on reassembly,

make sure all connectors are in-place on reassembly if removed (MAF, ECT, IAT)

** +1 on replacing the plugs with NGK, gap them at .038" to start **

--
In short, you have confirmed the motor has correct (Static) timing: when you reinstall the valve cover, be sure to place a dab of RTV sealant at the corner of each of the Cam Caps, & torque the valve cover properly to prevent leaks ..

--
If you have any questions on reassembly, post back: my time is limited this week (on the road / work ), but will check in when I can - many members here that will help if needed ..

(Excellent work on confirming the timing - you have eliminated a major possible cause of your no-start condition off the list... Let's see if we can get your Sporty up-and-running, moving forward..)

Regards,
GottaCruise
 

·
Registered
98 sportage 2.0 4WD
Joined
·
38 Posts
Excellent job in helping guys!

I am 100% confident everything around the spark, coils, timing is 100%. since the car is not producing BOTH spark and fuel - it still comes down to the ECU and wiring from the ecu.

Is there someone with the same model that you could just do a quick swop of the ECU, plug in and then crank just to have a check? that would avoid you having to trace wires and test each one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #60 ·
I agree macaveli! Unfortunately no I dont have access to another sportage to check ecm... Is there no way to test the ecm's on these?

Im going to put it all back together here in abit and report back... I already gaped them at .044 I think, thats what it said to gap them at, hope I didnt screw it up, I gaped them before I saw you posted .038...
 
41 - 60 of 89 Posts
Top