[E90.J91K]

2000 Kia Sportage 4x4 manual will not start. Have gotten the coils checked out and they are working, have replaced crankshaft position sensor, have checked and readjusted the timing(was off a tooth or 2ish), have cleaned out the fuel filter, have disconnected the fuel lines at the fuel pump and there was pressure, have checked fuses, and have checked compression and all where at or above 150.

After all this it still will not start and if I get someone to crank it and spray starter fluid or stuff of the like it doesnt make a single difference whatsoever so Im thinking its not getting power to the coils?

What am I missing or what else could it be?

Thanks in advance and God Bless!

 

[GottaCruise]

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum.

--
If you are unsure you are getting (+12) volts to the coil packs, you should confirm this, by using a multimeter to check the voltage at the coil pack lead, engine off, key on.

See my post in this thread:

http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/92642-engine-problems-whoever-solves-gets-5-a.html

For other (basic) voltage checks you should perform to confirm good power is provided to the ECM and sensors, to start, and post back.

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[DavesSpectra]

Also check out the current posts on Sportages... and the problems/cures on going...

Like GottaCruse said...
http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/92642-engine-problems-whoever-solves-gets-5-a.html

A very common complaint... "won't start", "poor performance", intermittent codes....

Fuel and MAIN relays are a very common problem also

We'll fix one Sporty at a time...but we will get them going...
Dave

 

[E90.J91K]

Thank you both alot. I will go to autozone tomorrow and buy a meter, I've never really used one before, will this one work?

OEM/Unit-T AC/DC multimeter (UT106) | Multimeter | AutoZone.com

 

[aquanaut20]

This is all you need for basic diagnostics.. 7 Function Multimeter ... Philip

 

[macaveli]

does your car have an immoboliser? do you have the black remote with the small and big button.

I would say if the engine is turning and you are not getting anything (spark or fuel) - it might be your immobiliser - there is a code to over ride the immobiliser - its usually the last digits of your VIN number - i think its the last 4 digits.

I had the same problem with my wifes car, after I figured out the code, and put that in - the car started - after 7 years of standing and on the same spark plugs.

you punch the code in by depressing the accelerator, so if the code is 1534.

ignition on - wait for the light on the dashboard to flash once, then push the pedal down. (1) the flashing light on your dash will acknowledge. then you wait for the light to flash 5 times, then down again, and so on, etc.

hopefully that works, its worth a shot.

 

[DavesSpectra]

He's around Irving, Texas (USA) so I kinda doubt a immobilizer problem but a very good try...
Immobilizers do kill the fuel pump, fuel injectors, and primary coil voltages and should be considered in Canada and in the UK and Europe .
Dave

 

[E90.J91K]

macaveli thanks for the idea but no I dont have one.. I bought a multimeter having no clue how to use one I experimented before looking for videos or asking in detail how to use it. I think I burnt it out . I can get it to read a battery but I get no where with fuses and wire connections etc etc..

I'll go out and buy another one Monday probably but does anyone know how to make a quick explanation on how to use them for what I need to be doing to the Kia? Even helpful links or something would be good. I'm for the most part stumped when it comes to electrical problems be that cars or residential..

I appreciate all the help, ideas, and suggestions guys!

God Bless

 

[DavesSpectra]

BEFORE you go buy another one... Even the cheap $6 meters from Harbor Freight have replaceable internal fuses.. Learning how to use a simple multimeter you will PROBABLY blow a fuse trying to read voltage on the resistance scale...That's part of learning. Radio Shack still has fuses in bubble packs.
Dave

 

[aquanaut20]

HOW TO!

...Philip

 

[E90.J91K]

Thanks for the info guys!

Well here is were I'm at so far with the multimeter.

Checked all fuses, all good.

I took out the air box and took out the heat shield for the headers to get to the harness that connects to the coil lead. I tested the voltage (set on 12v just like for the battery) on the lead plug where it connects to the coil on both the short section of lead and the longer one. The short came in at about 24-25v and the longer one at about 5.4ish v. I inspected the harness as far as I could see and found nothing wrong.

The condition of everything under the hood isnt that bad, the "plastic tube" insulation around the wire harnesses is brittle but you dont see corrosion/rust anywhere. the plastic plugs that hold the 2 wires that plug into the coils both broke so I have to tape it up and seal it when they go back together. Which wire goes on which side of the coil plug?

I also thought that since I had almost double of the 12v that is needed on one lead I'd connect it to a coil and then take a spark plug out and try and ground it on the valve cover having slipped it in the coil boot, and then crank the engine to check for spark. Thats what I did and I received no spark no mater if I swapped the 2 wires to either side of the coil plug and I tried the 24-25v and the 5.4ish v and both rendered no spark.

So now what, I'm stumped on what I should do next

 

[E90.J91K]

Also I just checked the OHM's on both coils and both read between 00.7-00.9.
Also the exhaust manifold/header has a crack but it doesnt look bad, hairline.

 

[DavesSpectra]

You really should NOT have 24~25 volts on any wire under the hood... I don't think there is any voltage doubler circuits in the electronics of this car...May be an error from someone not used to a meter ...

The car voltages will vary depending on the car running, the alternator charging, and the battery discharging (with the engine not running). Normally we say the car has a 12v system...BUT it really varies and can go as high as 14.4v (charging) to very low voltage if the battery is discharged..
To simplify this we say there is "12v" present even if it's slightly higher or lower.

A simplified wiring of the coils should go...
12V (actually around 13.4v) through the ignition switch through a fuse then to the coils (+) positive lead (connection)
then through the coil windings to the (-) negative side (connection)

Then through the wiring harness to a connection on the ECM (engine control module)..

then Inside the ECM where it is then connected to a transistor that is used as a high speed switch.

Through the transistor and then to ground/body/earth which is the return line back to the batterys (-) negative terminal..

The ECM basically grounds the negative connection of the coil when told to do so at about 2000 times a second (at about 2000 RPMs).. The connection to the coils are turned on and off very quickly generating a magnetic field that intersects the high voltage winding in the coil that generates the spark for the plugs...

You should have 12~13.4v at one terminal of the coil and a pulsing signal going from the above 12~13.4v to 0v (ground) during cranking and running of the engine.. If there is no change on the negative lead (going to the ECM) then the ECM is not switching (pulsing) the coil and no spark will be present (which is what it sounds like is happening).. The ECM makes lots of decisions based on what inputs it "sees".. If there is no cam or crank pulses or they are out of time with each other the ECM will not fire (pulse) the coils, it will not continue running the fuel pump, and it will not squirt (fire) the fuel injectors and no gas will be put in the cylinder to be ignighted... Lots of things must go RIGHT before the ECM will allow the engine to run...So no spark can indicate all kinds of problems.
Take a plug out and keep it connected to the spark plug wire..Find the wire that has 12v on it (with it unplugged from the coil)..make note of the color of the wire...now plug it back into the coil...Select the OTHER of the two wires and touch a spare wire from that terminal to the block of the engine or the negative terminal of the battery (with the ignition switch ON)...watch the spark plug resting on the engine block and see if you have spark when the spare wire is connected to the engine block.. That will tell you "if" the coils are OK or not.
We'll go from there...
Dave

There are two wires going to the coil
with the coil disconnected
One should have 12v on it...the other wire 0v
find and mark the one with 12v

 

[E90.J91K]

Dave, I cant quite follow your instructions... I dont get a reading from only 1 wire, I have to touch both to get anything so I dont know which is 12v and which is 0v... I have attached 2 pictures, the higher number is the shorter lead and the other the longer lead that goes to the coil furthest to the radiator. When cranking the higher number lowers to about 16v and the lower number to about 3.3v and when cranking stops they go back to around what the pictures show.

I tried connecting both wires to the coil and then the other to the motor and then touching the plug to the motor or ground somewhere as well and got nothing no matter which wire. I could'nt quite tell if you mean the other existing wire from the lead or a totally different random not belonging to the car wire just to go to the negative battery or as a stand in ground....

 

[DavesSpectra]

In order to read any voltages you must connect (ground) the black lead of your meter and use the red lead to measure the voltages. The way you are reading voltages you are reading the difference between wires that have voltage on them and not the true supply voltage (12~13.4v).
There is a "reference" point needed for your meter to work...

The negative terminal of the battery, the metal frame of the car, the engine block are ALL THAT same reference point.
I'm here to answer your questions for at least another hour EST and worst case on the phone if you pm me your phone number...
Dave

 

[DavesSpectra]

I also "see" you have two letters at the top of your meter..."mv".
That means "millivolts" or in laymen's terms 1millivolt equals "one one thousandth of a volt (1/1000volt) so your 25v is not really 25v but 25mv (or 25/1000 of a volt, or .0025v) pretty close to ground potential (0v).
We need to work together to get you up to speed on your meter.
Dave

 

[E90.J91K]

Lol, this is why forums like this are awesome! I've hit the hay for tonight already but I will be putting my new info to good use tomorrow after work and I will post back then.

Thank you so much for helping me and having patience with me.

God Bless and talk to you tomorrow!

 

[DavesSpectra]

God does bless those who help each other...
"WE" make kia-forums.com the best place because we are a network of caring people...
All we ask is pass it on...
Dave

 

[E90.J91K]

I'll do my best to pass it on, it works best as a never ending system =)

Okay so new info. Now that I actually know what I'm doing with the meter thanks to you, I'm getting about 13.7v on both blue wires.

I took a coil,plugged the blue wire into a terminal,had a spark plug wire connected to the coil with a spark plug connected to the spark plug wire. I then tried grounding the other wire to various places while also grounding the spark plug by the threaded part of it with the key turned on but not cranking.

No spark resulted from that and I switched the blue wire to the other terminal on the coil and tried again and still nothing. Also tried plugging both the ground and hot wires into the coil and nothing yielded spark. Do I not have to get someone to crank the engine though while I'm doing the above?

 

[macaveli]

@E90.J91K,

If i may again ask the following :

does your car have an immobiliser?
does the engine turn over when you turn the key?
are you getting fuel through to the engine when you crank?
can you smell fuel after continuous cranking?