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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok so i recently turned my car on from running it all day just fine and the check engine light came on, P0170 fuel trim bank 1- too rich or too lean, next day i un do battery and reset computer, check engine light is gone, now idle is odd the rpm needle goes up and down from 1 to 1 1/2 like im pressing and letting off the gas pedalm but on its own, when startup my idle is pretty high like 2000 rpm and doesent go down till i drive then when in neutral the up and down idle again, thinking its the maf sensor i unplug it and try to start it to see if the maf is bad it dies imediatley, then i plug it back in and the check engine light is back, i cleaned out the iac valve last month so im not sure what can be wrong, i hope someone can help me, Kind regards, Matt.
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Bump.. nobody? i also saw an a recall list for 97 sephia 1.8 that said Engine Controls DTC P0170 Ground improvement wich is the code im getting anyone familliar with that? also the idle jumps up and down only when my foot is held down on the brake, have no clue if its related the the code its throwing.:confused:
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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It sounds like your Idle Speed Control (ISC/IAC) valve is sticking, and could be corrected by taking off and cleaning it with carb cleaner, but not sure why it started at the time you did the battery reset.

It sounds like your O2 sensor is on its way out, and it too can effect the idle stability.
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
today i took off the egr and idle air control valve, egr was filthy, cleaned it, iac valve was already spotless on the inside, sprayed it out anyway, problem still persists, cleaned about every single sensor plug/contact i could get apart and clean with sensitive electronic cleaner, still havent solved the problem, need to dig out my multimeter and see what if any of them isnt putting out the right voltage.(sigh) any more suggestions would be great. -matt
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
BUMP, nobobdy has ever had or solved this fuel trim bank 1 malfunction code? i can reset the code and it wont come back for a couple days, still got crappy mpg's flat spot it throttle between 2-3000 rpm. cleaned maf, didnt change sprayed soapy water around intake manifold and vaccum hoses, no idle change, already changed cap rotor plugs wires and fuel filter. im clueless<_<
 

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BUMP, nobobdy has ever had or solved this fuel trim bank 1 malfunction code? i can reset the code and it wont come back for a couple days, still got crappy mpg's flat spot it throttle between 2-3000 rpm. cleaned maf, didnt change sprayed soapy water around intake manifold and vaccum hoses, no idle change, already changed cap rotor plugs wires and fuel filter. im clueless<_<
Does the Sephia have an OBD or OBDII diagnostic port?

I would be hooking up an OBD/OBDII scanner and monitoring sensor values in real-time to see what the ECM/ECU is seeing..

Are you having any low/high voltage issues w/ the vehicle?

*Have you done a physical inspection of all hoses connected to all vacuum ports on the intake manifold, in addition to the visual inspection, e.g.: running all hoses through your fingers to detect splits/cracks/burns, and removing all hoses from each connection end to check for splits/cracking at the component or vacuum port connection?

Have you thoroughly Q/A'd the PCV valve and hose & connections?

Hooking up a vacuum gauge may help in determining if a vacuum leak is present..

Without spending loads of $$$ trying component swapping, some basic tools:
===
An OBD/OBDII Scanner (see my sig. for a low cost unit)
A vacuum gauge,
A digital multimeter, to check sensor values / voltage to components,

are recommended to begin the process of component checks to qualify same and identify the issue through the process of Q/A & elimination..

Although illegal air on the Intake side,
the Exhaust side (exhaust manifold -> before the primary O2 sensor)

a MAF issue,

erratic Coolant/Air Intake Temp sensors -> readings to the ECM,

and/or in combination with a failing primary O2 sensor (fuel usage) are the most commonly sited causes..

==
re: common ground point improvement - if a TSB notice, and no joy finding, I'd checkout the alldata.com website for the dyi section, & google for any discount codes if you decide to signup..

Hope this helps.
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
yes it has obdII that scanner looks great for the price i think i might just go for that, i have checked all the hoses, sprayed carb cleaner while running, and checked with fingers too, do not have a vaccum gauge, but i do have a digital multimeter, i just need to learn how exactley to use it on the sensors as i am new to using it lol im not sure how to check for low or high voltage issues, pcv valve has good suction, i have thought of the coolant temp sensor, but i am unsure how to test it to see if bad, i have a cold air intake if that counts, maf sensor seems to be set up properly, it sometime sparks on the metal peice of the cone filter if i touch a random peice of metal with maf plugged in i do not know why, i am still trying to figure this out, thats what leads me to thinking improper grounding, thanks in advanced for any input.
 

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Matt,

I dunno why the MAF / cone filter would be sparking - IIRC all wiring to the MAF is self-contained, it should not need a (common) ground path to motor or frame..

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re: testing / sensor values: recommend signing up at the kiatechinfo website (see my sig.) using Internet Explorer - then you can view the (Service Info.) for your Sephia -> and the diagnostic trees / values for sensor testing..

If you can, posting a pic. of the CAI setup, using Photobucket, etc. with a link would help us see the current setup / offer suggestions..
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
heres the top veiw of the intake,



this is whats holding it in place these two metal things with a ghetto peice of metal holding it together,


i have sprayed brake cleaner around the fittings and none are leaking air, but i did spray soapy water around injector number 4 by the intake manifold and car started misfiring, havent got it to do it since though. thanks 4 the replies.:cool:
 

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Hi Matt,

If it was me, I'd be picking up a piece of 1/8" or 1/4" flat stock w/ a pre-formed angle bracket, or put a 90 degree bend in the flat stock using a vice and hammer, cut & drill accordingly, and replace that current setup: making sure to route all wiring away from the replacement bracket,

and would be (removing) the electrical tape & inspecting the connector to the MAF: I suspect something isn't right / secure in the current setup..

I'd just be real careful w/ the connector: any spliced or exposed wiring leading to the MAF should be enclosed w/ heat shrink-wrap tubing (not taped), once all individual wiring is sufficiently insulated, a wire loom cover should be used to enclose all the wiring up to the connector.. Ideally the repair should look & function just like the existing wire looms to other components in the engine compartment.

re: Injector 4 - that's a good catch: that alone will cause your rough idle condition.

I'd be checking to see if you can get a new O-Ring set for the injector(s), possibly a local auto parts store, or Kia Dealer sells them individually.

In the past, I've pulled a loose injector, regreased the O-Ring / reseated the injector & that's helped some, but given the age of these O-Rings it may be time for some new ones.

Using a slightly heavier silicone grease (like dielectric grease) would be good if just regreasing, some folks use a thin coat of axle grease, some use petroleum jelly, some folks recommend dish soap (Dawn, Palmolive, etc..) on new o-ring installs. (On a new o-ring install, you want to lube the o-ring lightly so it seats properly, it will be a tight fit w/ a new o-ring seal.)

If you've never done this before, just need to be careful: car should be cold / have been sitting overnight to relieve fuel pressure, battery should be disconnected before any open fuel system work (I'd remove it), follow the repair procedures on the kiatechinfo website for removing the fuel rail -> and injectors, and would make sure I had a backup plan "B" in case an O-Ring gets rolled or pinched, etc. on removal to obtain a replacement.

Don't allow any smoking around the vehicle when you are doing this repair,

I personally keep a fire extinguisher nearby the vehicle within easy reach when doing any open fuel system work (probably overkill, but that's how I was taught.)

Hope this helps,
GottaCruise
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
That sounds like a good idea, i will see what i can do to replace that setup, cause it seems to be causing problems, as for the maf connector yes there is a wire that is a little bare, taped it for now, but oddly enough none of the sensor connectors have wire loom covers? just that maf is missing the heat wrap for some reason, im goin to the scrapyard soon to take some stuff to wrap most the plugs back up, somebody must have messed with it all before i got it, as for the injectors, i had already ordered all 4 reman ones (there cheap, 38$ a peice) put em all in, took your safety advice, greased the o rings with synthetic oil i had lying around, the car didnt do the weird up and down idle, when i went into neutral the idle is still high until i push on the brakes, then its more steady, so that was part of the problem as the car runs a bit smoother, but the hesititation between 2-3000 rpm is still there, and it still pops (backfires in between shifts so im almost sure there is an intake manifold leak, once i get the gaskets, i will scrub out the manifold put it back together( full of carbon and gunk), and see if that fixes the hesitiation and slightly high idle, i also have a slightly modified exhaust, resonator delete with new piping and racing muffler that could contribute to the backfiring, also the check engine light hasnt been back to visit yet, Kind Regards, Matt.
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
the check engine light came back after changing the injectors, not sure if its the same code, but the car still runs the same so i am sure it is, going to go ahead and replace the intake manifold, and throttle body gaskets after i clean them out, hopefully that will solve this issue, cause i am about out of money lol. going to get the code checked to make sure its the same one still. will update once i get things figured out.
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i got the intake manifold of off the car, it was a very pesky task, bolts and nuts were a nightmare to get too, it was a tight fit to get it out, but its out of the car, its so gunked up, ive gone through a whole can of carb cleaner and its still nasty, im thinking of using a steam pressure washer and some engine degreaser to clean out all of it, but im not sure if any of that will harm the V.I.C.S actuator, (vacuum activated butterfly type thing in the dynamic chamber) if anyone can tell me that would be great, also i need to know if there is a gasket sealant i should use on any of the manifold, dynamic chamber or throttle body gasket, any input would help me alot as i need to get my car back on the road, thanks.:)
 

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Hi Matt,

Without knowing what that part does, I'd say -no- on the steam pressure washer / degreaser - if you can get in there and cover the opening up with some tape, and can safely clean without water infiltrating the part, then (maybe).

--

I'd keep going with carb cleaner and use a flexible bottle scrubber brush, that helped me when I did this to the Sporty's Intake manifold.. And Exhaust manifold.. And .. about 2 million other assorted parts.

re: gasket sealer, only if you never want to remove the intake again. :D

Best advice I can give would be to make sure all gasket mating surfaces are clean / level, just use the supplied gasket(s).

If you feel you "must" use some gasket sealer, then would suggest using some rubber gloves, or a hand in a ziploc bag, etc. to spread a -thin- coat of RTV / Ultra Grey sealer on, just enough to level out the gasket.. Too much will not be good in this case. (Keep the RTV out of the manifold.)

re: hesitation / miss between 2,000 - 3,000 rpms: if after cleaning the Intake manifold, throttle body, etc. and no joy, consider that MAF repair, and routing the wiring away from any metal ground points..

If that doesn't help, may be time to revisit the ignition side of things. I know on the 1.3 Liter Ford Aspire (Kia made / Mazda powered) engine here, with integral Coil Pack inside the distributor *(yup, a real distributor!) , if the coil pack is suspect, it will cause that condition. *Not saying this is -your- issue, just thought the info. might be helpful to you.

Lots of stuff going on here, between small engine repair, house repair, car repair, and every-other-type-of-repair, my time is limited to visit, so wishing you well with this repair,

GottaCruise
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thanks for the info, i used some b12 chemtool and cleaned it all up, got it together with no gasket sealant and torqued the bolts on sequence and spec, all is well, hesitation is mostly gone, car runs way better, im just gona chock it up to carbon buildup, (hopefully thats the prob) lol any thoughts on seafoam anyone? i want to clean out the carbon in the engine, just want to make sure its safe to run it through the brake booster hose, in small sips to not hydro lock, before i do it anyway haha thanks everyone i have almost all of this sorted out.
 

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2008 SpectraSX, 2014 Optima LX,2006 Jeep Liberty, Linux Mint Mate
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MattMan024...
You did not say if you had a manual or automatic transmission in your Sephia..
Another Subaru owner that frequents this forum has a 2000 Sephia and his forum name should ring a bell "Loyale 2.7T". You might want to search his posts on his car...
His automatic was causing all kinds of idle problems, shifting problems, etc...
AND he had a cure that has helped others....

As far as the sparking from the MAF you are pulling large volumes of air through the intake and "if" the air is very dry you may be building up static electricity and it wants to discharge to "any" grounded item... It could also be the wiring as posted.

Personally I try to stay away from ANY "performance" modifications...My thoughts are..
"If KIA's engineers built my car a certain way...they tuned the engine to get the best performance (and pollution standards) with what is there...."

By changing anything you probably are making things worse because you can't re-program the ECM's operation to take advantage of the changes and you have added new variables to the equation (problems).

You end up with "pretty" things that cost big bucks and do nothing but make the car noisier and less reliable than before.. Even the "promised" 2~5hp gain is too small to really help.

I'd put my money into improving the suspension (handling) and creature comforts, or in the bank for a true performance car...

I see way too much nonsense add ons all over the web that my dad called "West Virginia... High Performance Mud Flaps" ...(My apologies to those here from WVa)

I have a good looking 06 Spectra that will never be a "high performance V8 Camero" and I understand that. I drive it for what it is... A four cylinder, automatic that gets 24MPG city and 30+ Highway..with great tires and a comfortable, reliable ride. Nothing more....

Dave
 

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1997 Kia Sephia, 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, 97 Civic.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
oh sorry i have been distracted latley, the car is a 5 speed manual, since i have posted this, i have put in reman injectors, cleaned intake manifold and replaced gaskets, and gapped the plugs from 0.44 t0 0.39 the idle has smoothed out alot more, doesent rattle the car as much anymore,up and down idle is gone, im sure most of this was caused by the previous owners lack of maintenence, they literally did nothing to this car besides throw a cold air intake on and painted the engine without taping anything off lol, you are probabley right about the performance things, it would make sense that without proper tuning its just eye candy, it has new axles and kyb struts that are about 4 yrs old, the ride is smoother than my other cars, also since i cleaned out the intake system the car doesent give off the horrible burning oil smell at higher rpms, im sure most of it was blowby, next step im guna do is seafoam the intake ports\ valves and cylinders via brake booster, cause if its anything like the what i took apart and cleaned, its terrible, and im waiting to se if the cel comes back, so i can post if the problem has been solved, i thank you all for the responses, matt.
 

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Is the gap correct? I know the Sportage 4 cyls were gapped at .028 and ran bad at .039.
There might still be a label under the hood with the proper gap.
Good to hear it's running much better...Keep us posted.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
well the check engine light came back, so the problem is still there, but hey atleast the car still runs good haha, gotta save up money to get more parts, guna visit the scrapyard too, get a maf and fuel pressure regulator, i also need to test the fuel pressure, there is too many things that could be wrong that are related to this code, so the troubleshooting continues... lol thanks everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
well i got a used maf for next to nothing, swapped it in and cel is still present, i have a extra tps sensor and fuel pressure regulator i got for free, so i guess il swap those too, and if there not the culprit, i have free spare parts, lol will update when i can. -matt.
 
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