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Okay, a 2015 vehicle caught fire in 2018, ostensibly because of lack of lubrication/engine failure. I'll tell you a little secret - if oil passages are blocked and crankshaft lubrication is reduced, it ain't going to take three years to seize the rod bearings. More like three minutes.
 

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Okay, a 2015 vehicle caught fire in 2018, ostensibly because of lack of lubrication/engine failure. I'll tell you a little secret - if oil passages are blocked and crankshaft lubrication is reduced, it ain't going to take three years to seize the rod bearings. More like three minutes.
lubrication isn't like an on / off switch. It is entirely possible to have a slightly reduced flow of oil, that over a period of time slowly becomes worse, and lead to failure of the bearings after quite some time in use. When you combine a reduced flow with the introduction of oil varnish and sludge particles accumulating in the oil journals, can lead to failure of bearings. As the lubrication level reduces, temperatures in the bearings slowly rises, and eventually leads to complete failure.
 

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If there was a widespread bona fide issue, there would be a large number of purchasers with blown engines (with or without fires) during the many years and many models of vehicles these slip-and-fall lawyers claim there was an issue. I haven't seen any evidence of that.
 

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i would agree if the passages a suddenly blocked or seriously restricted, but pcguy has a point. This might well be a case of slow strangulation rather than decapitation, if you follow the way I've drifted.

And a number of other factors are at play here as well of course, maintenance schedule, oil used, operating environment etc etc.
 

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If there was a widespread bona fide issue, there would be a large number of purchasers with blown engines (with or without fires) during the many years and many models of vehicles these slip-and-fall lawyers claim there was an issue. I haven't seen any evidence of that.
There has been a not inconsequential number of people who have experienced rod knock and engine seizure. It's not just a rumor, but a real quantifiable group. I am not saying it's something that will happen to a majority of vehicles, but where there is smoke there tends to be fire somewhere.
 

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There has been a not inconsequential number of people who have experienced rod knock and engine seizure. It's not just a rumor, but a real quantifiable group. I am not saying it's something that will happen to a majority of vehicles, but where there is smoke there tends to be fire somewhere.
For the newer cars, I've not seen any evidence of this. I've looked at all of the complaint sites and followed the lawsuits. In 2017 there were 72,000 Sportages sold in the U.S. and in 2018 there are even more. I'd be surprised if more than 100 of these cars had this problem. That's a fraction of 1%. Even 1% is more than 1400 cars (over 2 years) and if the problem were that severe, it would be all over the news and complaint sites. So the probability that you will have this problem is rather small given current data. The people on this board tend to be more car enthusiasts than average and thus push their cars harder. So it's not just a "majority of vehicles" that will not have problems, but the VAST majority of vehicles. It sucks if you are one of those people affected, but I believe if you drive your car rationally, like most SUV's, the likelihood you will have any issues is extremely small.

Now, it would just be my luck that the gods of car failures choose me as their next victim.....
 

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For the newer cars, I've not seen any evidence of this. I've looked at all of the complaint sites and followed the lawsuits. In 2017 there were 72,000 Sportages sold in the U.S. and in 2018 there are even more. I'd be surprised if more than 100 of these cars had this problem. That's a fraction of 1%. Even 1% is more than 1400 cars (over 2 years) and if the problem were that severe, it would be all over the news and complaint sites. So the probability that you will have this problem is rather small given current data. The people on this board tend to be more car enthusiasts than average and thus push their cars harder. So it's not just a "majority of vehicles" that will not have problems, but the VAST majority of vehicles. It sucks if you are one of those people affected, but I believe if you drive your car rationally, like most SUV's, the likelihood you will have any issues is extremely small.

Now, it would just be my luck that the gods of car failures choose me as their next victim.....
Well, somehow they have gathered together a group of 350 examples of engine fire due to catastrophic rod bearing failure leading to a hole in the block, and oil starting a fire. I would be curious to see their data set.
 

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One thing for sure, these engines have tight tolerances, at least my 2.0 Turbo does. It doesn't use any oil at all from one oil change to the next. For that to be, the oil control on the valve guides and piston rings has to be quite good. That said, anything that reduces those and other tolerances even a tiny bit more, could introduce problems down the road.
 

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Well, somehow they have gathered together a group of 350 examples of engine fire due to catastrophic rod bearing failure leading to a hole in the block, and oil starting a fire. I would be curious to see their data set.
So, we're talking about 350 out of 440,000 vehicles. Like I said, this doesn't mean the problem isn't important, but objectively, that ratio is 0.08% or one out of every 1250 cars. We're probably dealing with even less incidence in the case of cracked spark plugs. It sucks if you are the one who gets this failure, but that doesn't change the odds of it happening to you. When the incidence is that low, there are typically multiple reasons (i.e., perfect storm) for these to occur. This would include not only quality control defects, but user controlled issues like driving behavior, maintenance, problems not fixed, etc. From a corporate standpoint, it is really difficult to find a general solution when the problem is this small. It is almost impossible to identify specific cars with this issue ahead of time as manufacturing defects/tolerances are random and generally follow a bell shaped curve. Typically, design defects have a far higher incidence than we see here. That said, while the vast majority of us won't have a problem like this, we will suffer from reduced resale values on our cars as most consumers blow these issues way out of proportion.

We don't know the specific data -- and unless there is a court case (and not a settlement) -- we will never know. If you've owned your car for a couple of years and have not had these problems, the probability you will have them in the future is even less.
 

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The knock sensor is right on the side of the block under the intake. It's a two wire job that generates a voltage commensurate with vibration/knock etc. a bolt goes right thru the center. Supposedly the intake has to come off to reach it but even the incorrect torque could probably affect its performance. That said, detonation is a very dangerous thing if left unchecked. Over time it could very easily damage internal engine parts. Pistons rings, and yes rod bearings could easily get hammered out. I've seen first hand what it can do on 87 Buick Turbo grand nationals. Back then it was a one wire sensor at the back of the block. Very sensitive to install torque. The ignition back then would pull huge amounts of timing out and very fast too. So fast it would fell like the engine partially shut off under hard high boost accel. On the stock Buick block though, the cyl heads were the weak point (thankfully), and the head gaskets were usually what let go first. Guys would o ring the heads, go to stage one block and heads etc etc. and guess what once those things were strengthened, if you detonated the motor enough it would start tripping over the connecting rods and crank. It's whatever the weakest link was, and the real answer is/was, don't let the motor detonate.
 

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Hyundai, Kia issue new U.S. recall of 168,000 vehicles for fire risks

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1PA2HT

2011-2014 sportages And others are included in this recall

Full read below

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) and affiliate Kia Motors Corp (000270.KS) said on Wednesday they will recall about 168,000 U.S. vehicles at risk of fuel leaks, after recalling them in 2017 for engine fire risks, and will offer software upgrades for 3.7 million vehicles.

A high-pressure fuel pipe may have been damaged or improperly installed as part of an engine replacement during the prior recall, and that installation could increase the risk of fire, the companies said.

The Korean automakers said the software update aims to protect the vehicles from internal damage, and they will also offer new extended warranties for engine issues. The "knock sensor" software detects vibrations indicating the onset of excessive wear on the connecting rod bearing.

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Kia said that 20 percent of the vehicles involved have already received the update.

The new recall covers 68,000 various Kia Optima, Sorento and Sportage vehicles from the 2011 through 2014 model years, while Hyundai said it affects 100,000 2011-2014 Hyundai Sonata and 2013-2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport vehicles.

Kia said six fires are linked to the new recall but no reports of injuries, while Hyundai said it had no reports of fires linked to the new recall.

In May 2017, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened a formal investigation into the recalls of nearly 1.7 million Hyundai and Kia vehicles over engine defects.

In November 2018, Reuters reported that federal prosecutors had launched a criminal investigation into Korean auto affiliates Hyundai and Kia reut.rs/2VVMwYm to determine if vehicle recalls linked to engine defects were conducted properly, citing a person with knowledge of the matter and documents. The companies declined to comment.

A South Korean whistleblower in 2016 reported concerns to NHTSA, which has been probing the timeliness of three U.S. recalls and whether they covered enough vehicles.

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In 2015, Hyundai recalled 470,000 U.S. Sonata sedans, saying engine failure would result in a vehicle stall, increasing the risk of a crash. At the time, Kia did not recall its vehicles, which share the same “Theta II” engines.

In March 2017, Hyundai expanded its original U.S. recall to 572,000 Sonata and Santa Fe Sport vehicles with “Theta II” engines, citing the same issue involving manufacturing debris.

On the same day, Kia also recalled 618,000 Optima, Sorento and Sportage vehicles, all of which use the same engine.

The recall, which was also conducted in Canada and South Korea, cost the automakers an estimated 360 billion won ($319.3 million). The nonprofit Center for Auto Safety in October called for the immediate recall of another 2.9 million Hyundai and Kia vehicles over engine fire risks.

A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to comment because of the partial U.S. government shutdown. The auto safety agency is not reviewing recall submissions or posting new recall campaigns on its website.
 

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NHTSA Opens Engine Fire Investigation

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened an investigation into non-crash vehicle fires for 2011-2014 Optimas and Sorentos and 2010-2015 Souls. A similar investigation has been opened for 2011-2014 Hyundai Sonatas and Santa Fes. The Kia investigation is Preliminary Evaluation (PE) 19-004. A copy of the opening resume for the investigation is attached. If you have experienced one of these fires and haven't yet reported it to NHTSA, I recommend you do so ASAP.
 

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hello all,

I am new to the forum. I was looking for the discussion on this topic. I own a 2014 Kia Optima SXT. love this car. no issue so far except the panoramic roof that dealer mechanic messed up doing simple fix. but I don't buy this lawsuit for some reason, but I would say a bit worried as well when public actually don't understand and judge that Kia motors are not good. it drops the resale or trade in value. 6 months I was thinking of upgrading to SUV, and I was offered 16K in trade in value, but this year I wanted to go for Tellirude and they are offering me 12K.
I think this affecting becuase of the lawsuit.
 
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