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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Cannot belive how hot as hell it must have been in here...:mad: I realise the 2.5L engine ain't the best thing since sliced bread, but much of the blame for its demise falls on the owners/drivers. This dude obviously placed a big foot on the gas when starting the engine...the resultant backfire took out the air flow meter, so he ran it solely on LPG and then must have let the engine overheat. That much heat finally took out number one pot. You can also plainly see the narrow lip the liner has to sit on..(any dumbass can see it's far to narrow to handle much load. (C'mon Rover?) If the head gaskets aren't the stronger MLS type the cylinder liner will eventually work loose and coolant will enter the crankcase....it ain't rocket science.
The liners in this motor are still proud of the block and no coolant has hit the oil this time. Anyways, this motor's getting a rebuild..so everything that moves up and down or round an' round will soon be replaced. I even made up four lockers to prevent liners falling out whilst I re-ring the block and replace the burnt out pistola.
I'll eventually post a list of where I found what parts and how much they all cost..:cool: Soon the Lovely Green Carnival go like a rocket...or I'll be a dead man walking
.:D
 

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2004 Carnival, 2.5L KV6 / GV6 / K5 engine
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Good one mate. Yeah that narrow lip puts a lot of dependency on the HG alright. Good idea on the retainers. How are the valves.
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Valves appear to be fine...actually the heads look pretty good. I figured that as the liners had no sealer at their base, I bought some super dooper 'Three Bond 1207B'. Apparently motor cycle engine rebuilders love this stuff, as it withstands temps from -60C to +200C, oil, water and roadside bombs. I placed a bead around the base of each liner and a second bead 25mm from the bottom just in case. No signs at all the liners have been moving, even after many kilometers. I reckon at least 40,000+ judging by the carbon build up in the ring grooves.
We'll see....:p

P.S. I reckon the coolant enters the crankcase via the base of the sleeves..not via any head gasket leakage. The old Standard Vanguard/Ferguson Tractor suffered a similar fate back in the fifties when I was still a lad...
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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The 2.5 sounds like a "dog". Thousands of Carnival engines had to be replaced in Australia.

Was the gas set-up OEM or a conversion?
 

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2004 Carnival, 2.5L KV6 / GV6 / K5 engine
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Valves appear to be fine...actually the heads look pretty good. I figured that as the liners had no sealer at their base, I bought some super dooper 'Three Bond 1207B'. Apparently motor cycle engine rebuilders love this stuff, as it withstands temps from -60C to +200C, oil, water and roadside bombs. I placed a bead around the base of each liner and a second bead 25mm from the bottom just in case. No signs at all the liners have been moving, even after many kilometers. I reckon at least 40,000+ judging by the carbon build up in the ring grooves.
We'll see....:p

P.S. I reckon the coolant enters the crankcase via the base of the sleeves..not via any head gasket leakage. The old Standard Vanguard/Ferguson Tractor suffered a similar fate back in the fifties when I was still a lad...
:eek: the liners had no sealant at their base? I’ve always assumed the sealant is only there to seal against coolant flow into the case. I think you said in a previous post that its a rebuilt engine, so no sealant strikes me as an indictment of the rebuilder. Nevertheless, it seems they didn't leak despite the lack of sealant, I think you were saying there was no sign of coolant in the oil?

Hadn't heard of the Threebond stuff, looks alright. I think the rationale behind Hylomar Blue is that its non-setting and remains flexible & puts up with a lot of vibration, but on a quick read 1207B seems to do much the same thing.

Apologies if I've not caught up on other posts, but what did you do in the end about a new piston.
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
There was evidence of a bluish looking sealer around the base of each liner, but it had completely decomposed. If that is Hylomar, I have lost faith in it's abilities...I actually think the engine is far from being a dog, as it's a very innovative design. What I'd love to know is did Kia alter the structure of the aluminium block to beef up any tendency to sag under load?

My engine number is some 900,000 later than the original. There's no sign of leakage and no sign of collapse where the liner seats against the block casting. As a result, the liners still protrude slightly above the surface of the block. As for the Piston, I located a piston/conrod assembly from 'Queensland Motor Recylers' in Rocklea...ask for Jason. Luckily they sent me a 'D' sized piston which matched the other five pistolas!

I had it pressed on here in Melbourne by Orger Engines. I used the original con rod in keeping with the engine balance criteria and have just this minute tensioned up the mains and big ends and the shaft spins over beautifully. Next step will be to complete the short motor assembly in readiness for the cylinder heads to be fitted. I have received a full gasket set with MLS gaskets, bottom end set, including the rear main seal and ...wait for it...Genuine ROVER cam belts and pulleys all the way from Bedfordshire..

I'll post when next the beast of beasts progresses further...must say, so far I'm loving it.
I was advised by Orger Engines to remove the LPG conversion as it's considered false economy to run late model fuel injected engines on a fuel that punishes the combustion chambers with higher temps and incorrect fuel mixtures. After looking at the burnt piston, I'd have to agree.
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Just tried replacing the rear cam belts with genuine Rover ones, only to find Kia in their wisdom used slightly longer belts and added a tensioner. They also changed the profile of the gear wheels and belts, so I had to use Gates belts...$238 from Repco..set of three.

Belt numbers are: 1x T1015 and 2x T1016....remember the belts display direction of rotation arrows. Luckily the Rover kit came with tensioner and idler, so all was not lost. Engine must have become so hot at some stage, it melted one of the cam belt covers right off its mounts...so paid a visit to 'Jolly's U Pull it' in Ringwood and found a replacement cover lying on the back seat of a Carny....cost all of $2 :p.

So now we're ready to refit the cylinder heads...after obtaining a new set of headbolts from Grant Walker Parts in Bayswater for $160.

Sump is back on the motor and a new torque converter seal is installed. Early 2000 model Carnival runs an Asian Warner auto) unlike the 2001+ models that run the Magna type, so the seal is different.
Making a plate to lock the cam wheels whilst messing with belts is quite an easy task...check out the pics. More installments to follow soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Around day 4 and things are looking up...Heads are on and gears are timed...they better be or I'll be a dead man walking. Must say a little about the head bolt tensioning procedure: I realise they are stretch bolts and I realise they must be replaced with new ones each time. Having said that, Kia recommend first tensioning them to 18.8 ft lbs..then pull them round 90 degrees followed by a further 90 degrees. The design of the engine is such that the block placed under this much tension supposedly holds the whole shebang together :eek:

In my experience as a mechanic for over thirty years I reckon this is BS. I pulled them 90 degrees then a further 45 degrees and called it quits. Does this Kia/Rover recommendation actually do more harm than good? Is the block pushed beyond its capabilities? Is this the reason so many engines failed? I read somewhere's this procedure should be carried out over a 12 hour period....felt to me like the threads were gonna tear themselves right out of the block.....:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK..the motor is all ready to drop in an go..hopefully. Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in my abilities..Must have confidence in Kia's abilities..:p
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #11
If it powers up...

Well if it goes, it should be tomorrow...sometime before lunch, provided I get the electricals sorted and the manifold back on. Made my own stainless steel water pump inlet pipe as Kia were out of stock and the Rover one was too short.:mad:
 

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2001 Kia Carnival 2.5L manual & 2000 Carnival Auto
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Good luck

Yes, Kia improved the K5 top cylinder heads and air intake chamber.
By all accounts an improvement upon the Rover design. (I like it)
hence the cam belts etc not fitting.

Applying a bead around bottom of sleeves whilst not a waste of time,
don't be surprised if you still get coolant leaking past.
The hylomar actually seals against the wall of the block, as it slides in.
the bead at lower lip is just excess thats pushed out from this sleeve/block wall interface.
Generally if the sleeve is loose - pull it & reseal.
Its should be really tight to slide in a hylomar sleeve.
You actually need to warm the block usually to get it moving...
But if the coolant showing in oil is only slight, more likely to be leaking thru a cooked metal layer gasket...
And Bars leak not much good for that pounding cycling...

Otherwise running engine with some bars leak initially will quite often seal it up.
Another reason to run engine initially in very low torque modes...
Add Bars leak to top radiator hose pipe before sealing hoses up with clamps.
Don't add to radiator cap or thermostat locations...

My other suggestion is to run the engine up to operating temperature
(fans will kick in) Do not drive around at all.
Then switch off and let engine cool.
Do this a couple of times - topping up coolant and observing everything like noise/leaks.
Don't be surprised if you see some white smoke coming off engine as it first hits operating temp. You usually have a bit of oil & stuff on the block that cooks off.
- So long as its not localized to one spot.

Doing this will help that piston bed in & align with the sleeve.
I generally replace sleeve & piston together.
But the cost of 'em now - its hardly worthwhile doing any longer.
Just get the new parts engine - better value long run.

I really think you are going to have problems with your heads if
the engine overheated. Check engine head bolt tension on easily accessible Left bank after about 1500km.


And go easy with your starter motor.
They are only light weight units and overheat quite quickly.
Short starts with key turned off in between will often start an engine when a long sustained ignition turn over is a waste of time.
You will have an initial compression problem until the piston ring seats with oil...
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Well the moment of truth came this afternoon...time to turn the key. Apart from an annoying coolant leak from the stupid plastic thermostat housing it seemed to run fine.
LPG is turned off..thought I'd see how it ran on petrol. It surprised me...:eek:


Thermo fan runs all the time..not sure why.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Well after an initial running, I went for a twenty kilometer drive and was quite surprised by how sweet this motor is. It's very gutsy, responsive and amazingly quiet. At idle I could balance a pencil on it....Haven't taken it above 2500 RPM and possibly will never need to pass the 3000 RPM mark! No oil/coolant leaks yet and it looks like the stainless steel water pump inlet pipe I made might hold...why Kia/Rover ever considered plastic as a material for these parts is a mystery.

Thermo fan has decided to function correctly now too...cutting in when the temp gauge reaches just under the halfway mark. The air con is wonderul and the Clarion wireless sounds like the Royal Albert Hall. This Carnival is pure pleasure to drive, just hope it all hangs together... after a few hundred more kilometers I'll report back. :cool:

Think I'll buy another blown up 2.5L...now I know what's inside.
 

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Cerato S Hatch Auto
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Why Kia/Rover ever considered plastic as a material for these parts is a mystery.
Engine compartment is no place for (ordinary) plastic. Some time ago in Australia, there was a car with with UK genes that had a PLASTIC air-cleaner. Warped in quick time and let grit into the engine. Many new engines fitted under warranty.
 

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KIA Carnival 2000
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Discussion Starter #20
Lpg

Filled the tank with LPG and threw the switch...motor runs fine on it, but I'll pick the time and place...only light loads, coolish weather and always start it on petrol.
It's hit the 1600k mark and still purring. :p
 
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