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02 Sedona -Last month the engine would stall when the transmission was put in drive or reverse. Give it a little gas before putting in D or R and it will go. Replaced the plugs and wires, no change. Took it to 2 different repair shops where they both diagnosed the torque converter as the cause (combo of engine codes and talking directly with Kia). According to both shops a new transmission was needed. The car has 100,009 miles on it and my sister in-law has never had the AT fluid changed. I looked at the fluid, it smelled burnt and it looked worst. Since I have a little experience with vehicles I agreed with the shops diagnosis and approved the install of a new AT. Now with the new AT installed the very same problem still exists. This time there are no codes to indicate any potential cause. Cleaning the injectors did not help. My sister in-law is tight on money and why I got involved with this I don't know. I surely knew better. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Note: The car is drivable just as long as the transmission is put into neutral before the car comes to a full stop. Give it a little gas, slip it into drive and the car runs great... I told this to my sister in-law and now you know the real reason I am looking for help.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 08 Harley Nightrain
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Welcome to the forum.

Sad that the shop wasted your sister in-laws money on the new tranny.

It sounds like a problem with the Idle Speed Control (ISC) valve which should modulate to maintain a set idle speed regardless of load changes like putting an Auto into gear, AC, Power Steering, and head lights etc.
Often the ISC can be sorted by cleaning with carb cleaner.

Take a look at the KiaTechInfo web site in my sig for more detail on the ISC.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If the ISC module is bad woudn't the engine code indicate a problem? There are no codes showing up.
 

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As usual I typed before I thanked you (ron1004)for the help. I will remove the ICS, clean what I can and give er a try.
 

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Found nice pictures of the Idle Control Sensor ICS valve (AKA Throttle Position Sensor) on the kiatechinfo web site. Cleaned the valve best I could. No improvement on the engine stalling issue and still no clues (engine codes) to help diagnose. Anyone have any other ideas.
 

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Found nice pictures of the Idle Control Sensor ICS [Idle Speed Control Valve ISC] valve (AKA Throttle Position Sensor) on the kiatechinfo web site. Cleaned the valve best I could. No improvement on the engine stalling issue and still no clues (engine codes) to help diagnose. Anyone have any other ideas.
The ISC is not "AKA Throttle Position Sensor" TPS.

There's two devices on the throttle body - ISC and TPS.

Cleaning of the ISC normally helps for this type of idle speed control problem, but sometimes replacement is the only answer.

A sticky (malfunctioning) does not normally trigger an error code.

To verify the function of the ISC you need to get the car connected to a scanner (not code reader) and monitor the ECM's signal to the ISC during load changes while idling.
The signal to the ISC is displayed as a % duty cycle which should increase as the idle load increases.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
THank you ROn1004 for the information/correction. I located the ISC - it is a seperate unit - cleaned with carb cleaner and now the problem has changed. Instead of the engine stalling all the time when put under a load - such as when put into P or D - now the engine wont stall (under a load) untill it reaches operating temperature. i.e. IF the engine is stone cold, it runs great (wont stall under a load), run it for ~10 minutes (temp gauge moves up) and it stalls when put into park, drive, or coming to a stop when in Drive. Could this modifed behavior be associated with the feedback of some temperature sensor?
 

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Glad you found the ISC :))

It could well be a problem with the temp sensor (there's two - one for the guage and the other for the ECM) but I would expect this to generate an error code.

I'm just grabbing at straws now, but try disconnecting the battery for about 5 mins and while disconnected hit the brake or switch on the lights (just to make sure all potential energy is discharged) and this should reset the ECM and it's self taught tuning parameters and just maybe it could solve the problem you now have.

It could also be that the ISC is still not 100%.
 

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I am having issues too!

When I start the van cold and shift the tranny into drive or reverse.....the whole front end shakes and the tranny sounds almost like its grinding. Any ideas what this may be? I was told to do the fluid in the tranny soon cuz it looks like crap!
 

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When I start the van cold and shift the tranny into drive or reverse.....the whole front end shakes and the tranny sounds almost like its grinding. Any ideas what this may be? I was told to do the fluid in the tranny soon cuz it looks like crap!
The rough running in gear when cold could be a number of things, like a bad temperature sensor causing the cold start not to work as it should, or a bad ISC as being discussed in this thread, but an experienced techie would need to see it to make a more accurate assessment.

If the tranny oil looks bad and you don't know when last it was changed, you might as well change it now, but I don't know if this is the cause of the problem you describe.
 

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Ron, I found TPS on the KiaTech site, I cannot find the ISC or ICS to try and clean that up. Can you point me in the right direction? It is an 03 Sedona EX. Thanks.
 

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Ron, I found TPS on the KiaTech site, I cannot find the ISC or ICS to try and clean that up. Can you point me in the right direction? It is an 03 Sedona EX. Thanks.
I'm not familiar with the Sedona, and the KiaTech web site is not too good on this model.

I found this schematic for the ISC and that's about it.
Typically there's two devices on the throttle body - one is the TPS and the other the ISC.
 

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Rover 75 (my commute) Sedona 2.9CRD 2007 (family bus)
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THank you ROn1004 for the information/correction. I located the ISC - it is a seperate unit - cleaned with carb cleaner and now the problem has changed. Instead of the engine stalling all the time when put under a load - such as when put into P or D - now the engine wont stall (under a load) untill it reaches operating temperature. i.e. IF the engine is stone cold, it runs great (wont stall under a load), run it for ~10 minutes (temp gauge moves up) and it stalls when put into park, drive, or coming to a stop when in Drive. Could this modifed behavior be associated with the feedback of some temperature sensor?
Chucky
I seem to remember that the petrol engines fitted in the USA are the 3.5 Ltr V6 Mitsubishi engine, if so then the ISC may be faulty. If it's the Mitsu unit then the ISC has a 6pin connector

1---2---3
4---5---6

Check the resistance values between 1--2, 2--3, 4--5 & 5--6 these should be either 30 or 40ohms nominal. Also worth checking 1--3 & 4--6 60/80ohms (why the 30/40 ohms, well Mitsu changes the coils & I'm not sure which year or what they sold to Kia)

read this :- Mitsubishi Tech: Solving the 3.0l V6 Idle Problem

I know it's for the 3.0Ltr, but I'm sure the 3.5 suffers the same.

SteveN
 

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No hidden agendas with me - I found it to be a good article.

I copied your user name and pasted that into my reply, and when doing this it creates a link to your profile - nothing sinister meant by this.
 

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Cheers Ron.

I can't take the credit really, as I didn't write the article, just had cause to read & benifit from it.

Do you know if I was right about Kia using the Mitsu' 3.5 & the later 3.8 V6 engines??
The guys on the 4x4wire are VERY knowledgable about these units ;) ;) I have a Shogun (Montero) with the 3.0V6 a very strong lump.

SteveN
 

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Cheers Ron.

I can't take the credit really, as I didn't write the article, just had cause to read & benifit from it.

Do you know if I was right about Kia using the Mitsu' 3.5 & the later 3.8 V6 engines??
The guys on the 4x4wire are VERY knowledgable about these units ;) ;) I have a Shogun (Montero) with the 3.0V6 a very strong lump.

SteveN
Sedona's 3.5L V6 is a Hyundai Sigma 3.5D engine which is actually a copy of Mitsubishi 6G74 made by Hyundai with very minor modifications, pretty much identical. The 3.8L V6 used on 2006 and later Sedona is a Hyundai Lambda 3.8 engine which is developed by Hyundai itself and is not a direct copy of any Mits engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you Steven - The car is still in the shop, since a replacement ISC is ~$500.00+ I wanted to make sure the ISC is bad before I roll the dice on pricey non-returnable parts. Hopefully the resistance check (if applicable) will shed some light.
 
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