Dunns04 - Welcome, neighbour . I drive a V6, but know of lots of Diesel users in UK have fitted Powerbox modules and are happy with them. Check out

UK Kia Sorento Forum - Home

and

Griffin Motor Tuning - Performance Parts for SUV's and 4x4's

for lots of information.

My postcode is SO15 - where are you located?

Regards

 

Don't know much about Kia diesels ..yet, but there is a belief amongst the Alfa Romeo diesel community that the 'instant solution' clip on modules are not as good for the engines as those tuners who come along and map the characteristics of your particular engine and remap the ECU in your own vehicle. The Alfa diesels are amazing incidentally, just fantastic actually

Adverse effects can be experiences when extreme settings are used.. often too much smoke/adverse consumption..and some have triggered engine management lights, but if you are not greedy with the gains you expect then you are usually working well within the engine/ECU parameters, and there is no reason not to. Incidentally remappers can make their work invisible to Dealer diagnosis machines and therefore there is no warranty problem.

I'd give Angel Tuning a ring for a chat. They come to you, but they are based in Leamington Spa Warwickshire UK 01926 614027. If Alfa owners trust them I suspect you can, and if they don't do Kia I'm sure they will say so, but I don't see why not.

Alfie 168

 

You should try and get an ECU re-map done,... not the "piggy back" tuning box as these fool the ECU into recording lower engine speeds, and they just increase the fuel supply. We have a firm that does this in Malaysia apparently using a Korean engineer from Hyundai sports and he has re-mapped many Hyundai and Kia ECU programs, petrol and diesel engines. He has done my 2005 CRDi and the power increase is 180hp and 420N torque, about 35% increase, dyno tested. Don't know what that does to emission controls, as these are not really enforced over here.

I have a 2003 XS 2.5 diesel with UK specification - had it about 6 weeks and am very pleased with it.

A number of companies in the UK offer diesel tuning modules with promises of about 30 more BHP and a similar increase in torque and maybe 3-4 extra mpg. I am tempted to buy one as I tow 2500kg sometimes (two horses and trailer) and would like to see my current mpg improved (about 30 on urban cycle). Cost is about 250 pounds sterling, they just plug into existing wiring looms - so they say!

Anyone out there with experience to advise me? Presumably there are insurance issues and worse emissions involved with these devices?

 

Yep..Angel Tuning have KIA on their menu list for remapping ECUs

go to Chip Tuning VW, BMW, Audi and Alfa Romeo - Angel Tuning for details and prices.

Looks good to me, and the Alfa guys speak well of them

***.angeltuning.co.uk (the mods don't seem to like www)

Alfie 168

 

We have a firm that does this in Malaysia apparently using a Korean engineer from Hyundai sports and he has re-mapped many Hyundai and Kia ECU programs, petrol and diesel engines.

Would love to know more about what they do for the V6. Tuners here will only map the diesels (including Angel Tuning mentioned by Alfie - by the way the full link works ok for me).

 

I've also been thinking about it (to get more torque in the 1500 - 2500 rpm range for towing) and have had a long conversation with one of the suppliers. The abridged version is:

Three types -
- a generic (doesn't matter what the engine is). It functions all the time and indicated to give about +25bhp and +35Nm
- mapped to the 2.5 CRDi engine. After 3 minutes of constant revs, cuts out (so ECU signals are not altered - giving "smoother" operation; the implication here is that the module makes the engine run rougher!). Indicated to give + 29bhp and +45Nm.
- self calibrating. Has a learning function that sets the optimal setting for the engine it is plugged into. Also cuts out after 3 minutes. Indicated to give + 29bhp and +45Nm (so what does the self calibration do compared with the one mapped to the 2.5 CRDi engine).

Potentially increased fuel consumption - as it increases the fuel pressure - any improvement is because the driver drives it with a "lighter foot" and is using a higher gear.

There should be no reduction in engine life. No need to use a different grade oil or reduce the service period.

I'm still undecided and the bit about the 'better' modules cutting out to give smoother operation worries me.

There seems to be so many 'claims' and so little hard data. I would not be given the torque and bhp curves, so there is no paper work that could substantiate the claims. Nor could I establish if the increases are in the useful rev range.

I don't know, just passing on information for anyone thinking about it.

Interesting that the new Sorento has approximately these performance increases, is there any way of getting the new mapping for the previous model?

 

It's not just a remap on the facelift diesel.

 

Steve..Am i missing something here, the three options you talk about all seem to be add-on modules. I thought the gist of what we are trying to tell you is to avoid these altogether and get a proper remap of your existing engine ECU. Have I got you wrong? Have you spoken to Angel tuning yet, they seem to be the guys with their finger on the pulse of howto do things properly.

Alfie168

 

Alfie,

I was saying, based on the information the company I spoke to - DieselTuner - I remain undecided, because there seem to be a few fundamental questions unanswered.

A vehicle manufacturer will spend millions on developing a product that is reliable, I have trouble believing such big gains can be had so easily and cheaply with no negative side effects. This is why I wondered if the difference between old and new models was remapping (Isuzu offer, as an optional extra, a remap for some of their models that gives more performance, this I would trust as it comes from the vehicle manufacturer).

gee6 clearly states it isn't just remapping between the new and old models, so I suspect the aftermarket modules are not the complete answer - a bit like taking steroids instead of commiting to a proper training regime i.e results are impressive but aren't the right answer and have long term adverse implications.

There are companies, like Jeremy Fearn, who will extract reliable and properly engineered performance. But as they involve intercooler mods, revised turbo setting, cooling and replacement ECU mapping, the cost runs into thousands depending on where you start and how far you want to go.

In my short experience with my Sorento, I haven't found lack of torque be a problem, but the chance of an extra 12%ish torque at such a low price and with 10 minutes fitting time was tempting hence my research. Maybe when I do tow with it, then I'll be willing to try an aftermarket module

 

Steve I think we are talking at cross purposes somewhat.

In the new Sorento diesel there is a new variable geometry turbo and other mods that have upped the power, so clearly you can't achieve this with a module or a remap on an old one.

To the best of my knowledge all the after market modules piggy back on to the existing ECU mapping, and one way or another they overfuel, which is not that good for the engine. In essence this method is a bit crude, as they interfere with the ecu rather than work with it.

What firms like Angel Tuning do is not quite the same. They actually reprogram the existing ECU without using a module..i.e a remap with no-add ons. If you read their website in the FAQ they do say that engine life may suffer by a factor of 5%, and there is bound to be overfuelling involved to get the extra power, but using the existing ECU is a more tailored approach and a bit more sophisticated than the off-the shelf modules.

We have four or five members on the Alfa forum who have had their 2.4 turbo diesels remapped by Angel Tuning and as far as I'm aware they are all very pleased with the results. There are obviously pros and cons to any 'mucking about' but I'd give them a call and talk about your concerns. I gather they are very good to deal with and give you 14 days to decide whether you like the changes or not. If not they refund and put the engine ECU back to how it was.

Alfie 168

 

from another website:


how chip tuning devices work:
They alter the signal from the injector pressure sensor to the ECU by sending a lower voltage signal. This in turns fools the ECU into thinking that there is less fuel going into the engine than it really is. The ECU then increases the voltage signal back to the injector pressure sensor to allow more fuel to enter the engine, hence more power. This is a very crude way of boosting power as it does not take into account air fuel ratios and time of the engine. There is also greater carbon build as there will be more unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber.
For the sake of TUV certifications and for reliability most of these systems cannot boost the power beyond 20 to 30hp from standard because it is merely fooling the ECU. Beyond this performance envelope the ECU in some cases may go into default safe mode if it detects something wrong or some tampering with the signals.

 

I have had bad experience with just slapping on some tuning kits or performance improvement stuff. I really think that these things should be properly engineered and tested before they are let out into the market. I mean the gains could be great but it's the long term effects that I'm worried about.

So far K&N filter has been my only engine mod

 

If you are really concerned about suitability/engineering you could check to see if the product is sold in Germany. Pretty much everything (if not everything ) put on a car there has to be certified (TUV)

 

I bought one of these plug in boxes, from diesel tuner, the power increases are real and immediate and very noticeable, however, anyone expecting better fuel consumption is dillusional, the extra performance comes at a cost, and the only possible consumption improvement is from accelerating at the same rate, but in a higher gear, but if you have extra performance you are going to use it!

The towing performance was noticeably better.

I was on the M4 near Cardiff, fully loaded with the caravan on, and my engine cut out completely it restarted OK, went 3 miles up the M4 and did it again, I removed the unit and no more problems, I phoned diesel tuner and they said it sounds like "system overload" and I should back off the units setting a bit.

I don't fancy being in the situation I was in on the M4 again, (2100kg of car with 1700kg of caravan on the back does not coast very far, uphill! and when you have a filter lane to your left it makes getting to the hard shoulder errmmmm, lets say interesting )

Added to that my new insurance company who have done me a great deal on the car want another £200 to add the diesel tuner

....So if anyone wants to try one or buy one, there is a secondhand one for sale in Essex.

 

If you are really concerned about suitability/engineering you could check to see if the product is sold in Germany. Pretty much everything (if not everything ) put on a car there has to be certified (TUV)

My understanding is that the TUV certification is for the unit, NOT what it will do to your engine.

Its a bit like the ISO thing, as long as you say what you do, and do what you say, you are in business......nothing to say that what you are doing is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is documented....its a load of old ballony in other words.

 

My understanding is that the TUV certification is for the unit, NOT what it will do to your engine.

Its a bit like the ISO thing, as long as you say what you do, and do what you say, you are in business......nothing to say that what you are doing is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is documented....its a load of old ballony in other words.

I don't read a lot of German, but TUV certificates I have deciphered do seem to go further*. (But TUV do both product certification and process certification, so it might be confusing the issue)

Otherwise you make a reasonable point - I am a trained ISO9000 auditor and run my own quality management co. My bank doesn't cash ballony, which is one reason I prefer TQM.

*eg TUV cert for Eibach Pro-kit springs for Sorento stipulates not suitable for vehicles with self-levellers - just looked at that today.

 

wear and tear?

has anybody used diesel tuning modules and gotten problems because of that?

i know that automatic transmissions can be overheated when used at high speed when towing a camper or other heawy stuff...

regards from Norway

 

just a couple of points ...the add on boxes hold the injectors open longer to give more fuel and cannot exceed about 25 bhp because they do not increase turbo boost to give extra air to burn more fuel. ( which a re map can do )

The reference to air fuel ratio is a petrol head thing and not appropriate to diesel where provided you have excess oxygen you do not get smoke...there is no correct air fuel ratio for diesel

 

so if i add a K&N or GREEN Filter, just as i did on my old Suzuki

i get more air -and more power without exessive black smoke.

but on my Suzuki, the clutch (in good shape) started slipping at 5th gear when i towed a heawy trailer

too much power?

i don't want similar things to happen on my new Kia

 

I dont think more aiir will give you extra power ..if it did we would not have an oil shortage....the power comes from the fuel ..you just need the air to burn it and in the case of a diesel excess air to make sure its all burnt....I dont think the clutch is an issue on a vehicle with a large towing capacity like the sorento