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2008 Rio
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Discussion Starter #1
I was driving my '08 Rio LX at highway speeds and the engine just cut out. I coasted to a stop and got it towed home. The battery is good and the engine will crank, but it will not start. I've seen some discussion about a broken timing belt and how with an interference engine it would probably be toast. But did not hear or feel anything that sounded like an engine destroying itself as I coasted or when I crank it now. Does anyone have any ideas what is going on? Below are the two error codes I pulled. What additional information do you need?

P0337 - Crankshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Low Input
P0342 - Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Low Input.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 2013 BMW K1600 GTL
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Those are not the typical codes for a broken timing belt, but still worth checking its condition.

What's the mileage and when last was the timing belt changed?

While its cranking take a look at the cams through the oil fill cap.
 
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2011 Forte SX 2.4L (thankfully MPI) A/T 144K miles
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No indication if you DIY, but if you do then test for reference, signal, and ground at the sensor connectors. If you don't DIY then all you'll get from a forum is guesses. But guesswork will not get your vehicle fixed, so take it to a repair shop for proper diagnosed.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 2013 BMW K1600 GTL
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In my travels through the forums, the great majority don't follow up on their own threads, and more than a few of them never come back at all. I've gotten into the habit of never posting on a thread that's had at least one reply, but with nothing back from the OP. This time your post was just ahead of mine, so I didn't have a chance to see it. So it's likely I've wasted a bit of time on this one. I guess time will tell on that.
 

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2008 Rio
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks everyone. I do DIY. I decided to take off the top two bolts on the plastic cover for the timing belt to see if I could peak in and check if it is broken. It is. So I suppose the question now is if 1) anyone has experienced a broken timing belt, 2) how much damage it caused, and 3) if it was worth fixing. Is this something that a person with time and patience can handle, or does that depend on what, exactly, the damage is?
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 2013 BMW K1600 GTL
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Thanks everyone. I do DIY. I decided to take off the top two bolts on the plastic cover for the timing belt to see if I could peak in and check if it is broken. It is. So I suppose the question now is if 1) anyone has experienced a broken timing belt, 2) how much damage it caused, and 3) if it was worth fixing. Is this something that a person with time and patience can handle, or does that depend on what, exactly, the damage is?
Those are not the typical codes for a broken timing belt, but still worth checking its condition.

What's the mileage and when last was the timing belt changed?

While its cranking take a look at the cams through the oil fill cap.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L, 17 Ford Edge Sport 2.7L V6, 15 Mustang 3.7L V6, 2013 BMW K1600 GTL
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Simplest is to search for a good used engine, or a factory re-manufactured.

Were you aware that the timing belt replacement was part of routine maintenance?

Those are not the typical codes for a broken timing belt, but still worth checking its condition.

What's the mileage and when last was the timing belt changed?

While its cranking take a look at the cams through the oil fill cap.
 

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2011 Forte SX 2.4L (thankfully MPI) A/T 144K miles
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You could certainly replace the engine, as Ron mentioned above.

The other choice (aside from junking it) would be to make the repairs on your engine. I don't know much about the Rio, but generically speaking, typically some valves get bent when the timing belt breaks, which requires the head to be removed and rebuilt (new valves, guides, seals). Another possibility would be to buy a rebuilt head, or have the damaged head from your vehicle rebuilt by a machine shop. And, in addition to the head, you would of course need to do the timing belt job as well.

You mentioned having time and patience, so add to that paying attention to detail, and a GOOD service manual or repair guide (specific to your vehicle), and you're in business. The first time through on one of these would definitely be a challenge, but IMO It's a job that a dedicated DIYer can successfully complete.

The good news is that the repair cost would be quite reasonable - somewhere around $200 in parts if you rebuild the head yourself, or around $500 if you choose to buy a head. Totally your call if it's worth it or not, and the overall condition of the vehicle (particularly the amount of rust) should be a major consideration. Good luck whichever way you go!
 

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2008 Rio
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Discussion Starter #11
UPDATE:

A friend and I wanted to see if there was valve damage. So we did a compression test (even though the car could not be hot) and we got a consistent reading from all cylinders. Then we pulled the valve cover off and unbolted the cam shaft to close all the values. When we opened it I noticed that none of valves in the engine were in the fully open position. Perhaps this is just the stroke of luck I needed. Then we did a leakdown test and got consistent pressure from all cylinders (about 115 PSI). That seemed low, but given the consistency it seemed worth while to do the timing belt job ($60 in parts) and see what happened. Put on the timing belt kit (AC Delco) and the engine fired up and seems to be running normally. I'm in the process of replacing the tensioner pulley for the AC, which was terribly rusted and gritty, so I've not been out on the road yet. I'll post back again when I've done some miles. Fingers crossed.
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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Great news! You my friend dodged the proverbial bullet!! Not sure how, good luck? Clean living?
 
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2010 Kia Rio LX
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Wow, you're lucky. I've heard horror stories about broken timing belts on interference engines. I have a 2010 Rio LX myself, with around 157k miles, almost identical to yours, and replaced the timing belt myself last year as routine maintenance per the FSM and the advice of just about every car expert.

The old one was actually in pretty good condition, and was probably replaced not that long ago (the car used to be my dad's until a few years ago and he basically threw out all service records so I had no idea what I was dealing with), but it's not that expensive and is cheap insurance.

Did you also replace the idler, tensioner and water pump, as is recommended whenever replacing the TB? I did the first two but will try to do the third later this year.

Perhaps now's a good time to take stock of whatever other critical parts might need replacement or at least a good look. You were lucky this time but might not be the next time. E.g. wheel bearings, calipers, suspension, tie rods, etc.

Good luck!
 

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2008 Rio
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Discussion Starter #14
Wow, you're lucky. I've heard horror stories about broken timing belts on interference engines. I have a 2010 Rio LX myself, with around 157k miles, almost identical to yours, and replaced the timing belt myself last year as routine maintenance per the FSM and the advice of just about every car expert.

The old one was actually in pretty good condition, and was probably replaced not that long ago (the car used to be my dad's until a few years ago and he basically threw out all service records so I had no idea what I was dealing with), but it's not that expensive and is cheap insurance.

Did you also replace the idler, tensioner and water pump, as is recommended whenever replacing the TB? I did the first two but will try to do the third later this year.

Perhaps now's a good time to take stock of whatever other critical parts might need replacement or at least a good look. You were lucky this time but might not be the next time. E.g. wheel bearings, calipers, suspension, tie rods, etc.

Good luck!
I got a AC Delco kit that included the idler and tensioner. I did not replace the water pump because it is not under the timing belt cover and I can do that later without taking out the motor mount, etc.

The timing belt was able to sneak up on me because I did not know about interference engines. I remember a timing belt breaking on our family car when I was a kid but it was not catastrophic - just a tow and put a new one on. Clearly it was a non-interference engine. I've actually done a fair bit of work on it over the years: control arms, ball joints, struts/shocks, tie rod ends, rotors, calipers. I changed the transmission fluid and filter during this episode, once I determined that it would run. Coolant will be next. I've also had a shop replace the starter. I've done wheel bearings on our other car and I am not experiencing any symptoms of worn out bearings. We'll see.

I've been out on the road now a few days and things seem to be running OK. The only exception are the brake rotors/drums that were sitting for 4 months. They were quite crunchy out of the gate and I will be getting them surfaced this weekend.
 

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We seem to have a lot in common car-wise (hell, even our screen names here are similar!). It's only in the past several years that I've gotten into DIY car repair. I had no choice as my dad gave me his 2010 Rio LX and it had all sorts of problems, all regular maintenance tasks that he'd either deferred to save money or not known about, and if I took it to a shop it would have cost way more than it was worth at the time. So I bought a bunch of tools (which ended up costing around what shop repairs would have cost, but they're for life and will pay for themselves and then some over time), obtained the FSM, watching a ton of YouTube videos and read a lot of books and online guides, and got cracking.

Anyway, I've done many of the jobs you've listed, on the Rio and several other cars we have. Probably the biggest was replacing the TB on the Rio, which I'm about to do on another car, on which it's looking to be a lot more complicated. I've also replaced outer tie rods, a CV axle, calipers, pads, rotors, a brake hose, master cylinder, complete brake bleeding, coolant flush, and even front wheel bearings (btw you're lucky if your Rio doesn't need new ones given the mileage so certainly test the play with the wheels up). I'm now derusting and restoring the rear suspension on another car, just cleaned, painted and rebuilt the calipers, and am about to replace the clutch, along with the TB & WP and some other parts, and all the fluids, including gas as it's been sitting undriven for 5 years (I'll probably have to remove the gas tank and clean it, which sounds kind of scary).

I used the same Dayco TB kit as you, and it's worked out ok. I'll probably replace the WP in a few months, and the thermostat. I already have the parts so I might as well. Now I've had to work on starter issues, which I wrote up in a different thread here. I may have fixed it (some idiot mech forgot to fasten both bolts!), but will probably replace it since the current one is showing signs of losing steam. I might also replace the rear struts eventually as the car doesn't handle bumpy roads well. A bunch of other relatively minor things I have to do on it, but it's mostly solid.

Also, I didn't find out until recently why a broken TB can be so bad, but I've known for years that it's something you absolutely want to avoid, not just because it could destroy an expensive to replace or fix engine, but because at highway speeds it could be really bad news, especially with today's distracted drivers who might not see you in time to slow down or change lanes. So as soon as I felt like I was ready for it, I did it.
 
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