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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,
Just recently when the engine is cold, like after work, I get into the car, turn the key to position 2, wait for glow plug indicator to go out then turn to position 3 to engage the starter motor (accelerator not pressed). However, sometimes I get a cloud of blue smoke from the exhaust.
Also, for the first 2 miles or so the engine runs rough, particularly at low revs (up to about 1700 rpm) being particularly bad at about 1500rpm where it stutters if I go from no throttle opening (like going downhill) to a small throttle opening (like trying to maintain 40mph). I'm within the gear change rev range indicated by the on board computer and I drive very conservatively - that's why I consistently get more than 60 mpg.
I've never owned a diesel before so I can't say if it's worse than other cars.
The blue smoke worries me and it seems like I might have a faulty glow plug or something as the car feels much better when warm. Come to think of it the car goes from noisy to quiet apparently randomly, too.
Can anybody offer an explanation of what might be wrong? Any known faults with the cee'd 1.6 diesel engine?
The car is going to the dealer tomorrow for an investigation - hopefully they will manage to get it sorted quickly, but I'd appreciate any information anybody can give me.
Surely it's not normal. Frankly it's embarrasing - a "10" plate car with a cloud of smoke coming out of it in the car park in full view.
Thanks for your help.
 

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Sounds to me like a glow plug issue. My new eco had a malfunctioning glow plug which caused the fuse to blow, resulting in no-pre-heat.

The resluting thread on this forum explained that glow plugs are used for more than starting on modern diesels.

Have the dealer check the functioning of the plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply - I was beginning to think nobody would respond.
I took it in this morning and the technician suspected an injector, though because I had done a little research I questioned the glow plugs. (Didn't want to tell him his job, of course.)
I should find out in a couple of hours what they concluded and hopefully repaired.
(Incidentally do you live anywhere near Sandvika? I lived there for a while as a child.)
 

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Hope the technician sorted your problem for you. No. Nowhere near Sandvika, but I lived in Llanfyllin for a while and my mum just moved from Meifod ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hope the technician sorted your problem for you. No. Nowhere near Sandvika, but I lived in Llanfyllin for a while and my mum just moved from Meifod ;-)
Thanks SW, It's a small world.

Anyway, I fear here begins a saga. No fault codes with the car, all pressures etc. apparently are normal. Technician has emailed details to Kia so Kia can authorise repair. This isn't the only Ceed 1.6 diesel to have the fault - I think it's going to be the next significant issue with the U2 engine. Kia have seen this quite a few times now and don't appear to yet have a definitive fix.
I think they are likely to try new injectors, seals, and pipes, which apparently is an expensive job. (For Kia, not me!) However, there's no stock in UK of the required parts.

So, in the meantime I have to drive an "EcoDynamics" belching out a great cloud of blue smoke (how embarassing - not very Eco is it?) and hope they come up with a fix.
THEN I have to take a day off work at a time (as the dealer is 35 miles in the wrong direction so even if I got a courtesy car I'd do 4 hours driving and pay £20 in fuel and £12 in insurance per day) while they swap bits out trying to fix the problem.

Maybe I'm being negative - hopefully they will figure it out and only cost me only ONE day's pay / holiday entitlement, but even at that I'm not very impressed. I never had problems like this with the Hyundais / Skodas / Fords / Nissans / Volkswagens I have owned before. And certainly not on a 4 month old car with less than 4k on the clock.

The Kia Ceed SW is the most expensive car I have ever bought and so far the most problematic, I am sorry to say. (And I really am sorry to say it - I've spent a lot of money on it and also I don't want to tarnish Kia's reputation but the truth is the truth)
I've had to go to the dealer about once a month since I bought it new.

Poor show so far Kia - come on, let's do our best to get this sorted before it becomes a real problem. All manufacturers have problems but I want Kia to show how well they can solve theirs - that's going to be what matters.

Watch this space.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sounds to me like a glow plug issue. My new eco had a malfunctioning glow plug which caused the fuse to blow, resulting in no-pre-heat.

The resluting thread on this forum explained that glow plugs are used for more than starting on modern diesels.

Have the dealer check the functioning of the plugs.
Just a thought - when yours had a faulty glow plug did it report an error? (i.e. did the glow plug warning light come on?) If no error I wonder if this could be similar to my situation.
I'm trying to get all the info I can for my local friendly dealer to do what I can to help them - we all want the same thing: a working engine!
 

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Hi

Sadly, Kia have not been in any hurry to fix our fuel computer.

The car has been back to our dealers many times and still no further along in getting it to work.

In our case, I think Kia are not bothered as its more of a minor problem in their eyes.

Prior to this, our car went back to the dealer with ESP problems on 3 occasions. They repaired it in the end.

Our Kia currently hold the record for most return trips back to the dealer.

Good luck !

Nick
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Nick.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that you have had a bit of an ordeal at the hands of Kia. I think another owner had a similar roblem which turned out to be fuel tank sender, giving weird mpg. Worth asking? A fuel sender must be in the order of pence to manufacture so surely worth a punt?
I do hope I'm not going to get into the same position as you with Kia though. I think I have been pretty reasonable about this but I will be wanting a solution.
The dealer seems to be very reasonable at the moment and I haven't yet heard from Kia so I will assume for now that they will be reasonable too.
To be fair, even if they can't fix this problem (and the dealer accepts that there is a problem which is perhaps half the battle) then worst case they can fit me a new engine. I think that's fair - if they can't fix the old one then they can give me a new one.
However, if there's a simple fix for the existing engine then great.
I don't want to be TOO negative - at least not yet. I think Kia probably read this forum and want the matter fixed as much as I do. I want to asume for now that they will do all they can to rectify the problem and then I will be able to publicly report the outcome. Like I said before; all manufacturers have problems - the key is how these problems are resolved. If it's handled professionally and quickly then I will publicise the fact.
BUT - let's give Kia time to fix this. I don't want to assume (for now) that Kia will be unreasonable.
I will keep you posted.
 

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Hi ED

I do think in our case its a dealer issue.

They used to be Peugeot dealers and whilst not rude to you, it feels that they are talking down to you.

Not once since their last failed attempt have they been in touch, however much the same can be said for Kia Customer Service. Its been 2 months since my last call, so I think its time for another one.

Its a shame, the car appears to be well built but let down by niggly faults.

Yikes " Sound like a Renault "

All the best


Nick
 

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Just a thought - when yours had a faulty glow plug did it report an error? (i.e. did the glow plug warning light come on?) If no error I wonder if this could be similar to my situation.
I'm trying to get all the info I can for my local friendly dealer to do what I can to help them - we all want the same thing: a working engine!
Hi ED209,
Sorry not to reply earlier. No, mine displayed no fault codes and in fact I had a helluva job getting Kia to find the fault.

It's all described in another thread, search for "pinking" and you'll find it.

In the end I took the car back to Denmark where I had bought it and Kia sent a specialist to diagnose and fix the problems. I find it strange that the diagnostic tool doesn't report such an obvious fault. In fact it DID report completely incorrect oil temparatures, but this is evidently normal. I'm still looking forward to a software update as I don't find the U2 as smooth or quiet as the U1 even after fixing the problems. All in all though I have to say I'm pleased with the car. I rented a similar spec Ford focus estate on holiday and think the cee'd SW far superior.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi ED209,
Sorry not to reply earlier. No, mine displayed no fault codes and in fact I had a helluva job getting Kia to find the fault.

It's all described in another thread, search for "pinking" and you'll find it.

In the end I took the car back to Denmark where I had bought it and Kia sent a specialist to diagnose and fix the problems. I find it strange that the diagnostic tool doesn't report such an obvious fault. In fact it DID report completely incorrect oil temparatures, but this is evidently normal. I'm still looking forward to a software update as I don't find the U2 as smooth or quiet as the U1 even after fixing the problems. All in all though I have to say I'm pleased with the car. I rented a similar spec Ford focus estate on holiday and think the cee'd SW far superior.
Thanks for the info. I'll ensure a link to this thread is passed to the tech guy at the dealer. In my opinion the cost of a set of glow plugs is so low it's surely worth a try. A set of 4 NGK ones is a bout £35 retail so surely only £20 trade. It costs me more than that to take the car to the dealer so I have been asking them to try glow plugs first, but the dealer are "led", let's say, by Kia UK. It's useful to note that faulty glow plug(s) - or perhaps a blown fuse - was NOT detected by the diagnostics.
I'll talk to the dealer today and see what the plan of action is. Hopefully I will have read your other thread on "pinking" by then.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
 

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Good luck ED209. In my case the glow plugs were simply not working due to the blown fuse. Should be easy enough to check without the diagnostics or changing the plugs.

Keep us updated on your progress.
 

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..... However, sometimes I get a cloud of blue smoke from the exhaust..
first of all, let's settle from the begining:

-blue smoke comes from burned oil in the cylinder
-black smoke comes from excess of fuel in the cylinder

consequently, please have a close look at that bloody smoke before getting to a conclusion, since are very different causes.

For example, you may see black smoke almost on all diesel cars during hard acceleration/heavy load, since fuel is injected in more quantities than required, for a limited time. Suppose that a glow plug is down, some black smoke may come during engine statup and that's all !

Blue smoke you may find at the exhaust of worned out engines or of engines which are having defective sealings (piston rings, inlet/exhaust valve sealing, etc). I hope this is not the case for your engine.:(

However, please keep me posted with the outcome of investigation.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Ida01ro - thanks for your input.
The smoke is blue. Definitely. Not white nor black. Dealer suggested (if I remember correctly) that diesel is also a heavy oil so blue smoke could be diesel, implying an injector problem.
It is emitted for about 4 seconds on cold start. Also, when cold the engine runs rough (seems to be getting worse) which feels worse at lower rpm. This morning I had to run at 1900rpm to not feel the roughness.
Fuel economy seems OK when the engine is warm but at small throttle openings I can feel the roughness for the first 5 miles or so; it feels like an electrical fault (a misfire) on a petrol engine.
The sound of the engine at startup or under gentle acceleration while cold is much like a transit van. Sometimes the rattly engine sound changes abruptly to a smooth and much quieter sound, normally at 1800rpm or so, but not always.
By the time the engine has run 10 miles or more it sounds quite quiet, though this may be subjective.
The engine has only 4000 miles on it, so I suspect it isn't "worn", though there is clearly a manufacturing defect of some kind, so perhaps "wear" is not entirely inaccurate.
I do hope the dealer / Kia are able to find a solution quickly.
Does the diesel EcoDynamics have a catalytic converter? If so, what is likely to be happening to it by putting this burned oil through it?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Further background information:
The car does not seem to have burned a significant amount of engine oil. The engine oil is still a golden colour, not heavily sooty. Just slightly dirty.
Come to think of it I have occasionally noticed the engine having more power than normal. It caught be out once while pulling onlt a roundabout - not driving any more harshy than normal the car took off like a scolded cat. I wonder if it's down on power most of the time with the occasional period where it's running properly (and quietly).
 

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The engine has only 4000 miles on it, so I suspect it isn't "worn", though there is clearly a manufacturing defect of some kind, so perhaps "wear" is not entirely inaccurate.
true, not worn but broken piston rings, or damaged valve sealings may have the same effect. Have they (i.e. Kia) measured compresssion values ? Well, let them do their work/investigation since engine is under warranty for 7 years, and you have paid for it!

OT: However, Im seeing on this forum that lack of proffesionalism is shown everywhere by Kia dealers/garagists. :mad: just see the guy which is having license plate fixed with fresh holes directly on car bodywork ..unbelievable :eek:

good luck !
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just to clarify - the dealer have so far been quite reasonable. I am not saying (certainly not at this stage) they they are being unprofessional, so please don't misinterpret my words.
If there was a broken piston ring I would expect the car to always burn oil, and to emit blue smoke constantly. Perhaps the same for valve seals? What do you think?
However the blue smoke is certainly worrying. I'll let Kia attempt the simple fix first but if they can't fix this then I will need a new engine. It's probably cheaper to swap out a whole engine than it is to mess about stripping and rebuilding the existing one.

Off topic, what do people think it costs to manufacture a Ceed SW EcoDynamics. I reckon £5k. (Bear in mind that £2k is VAT etc, the dealer has to make his profit and the transportation costs all add up, and there has to be enough profit to support a 7 year warranty.) This would make the engine worth no more £1k in manufacturing cost.
Seems like it would be cheaper to fit a new engine than thoroughly investigate, strip and rebuild the old one.
Might start a new thread on Ceed SW manufactur cost - or perhaps somebody knows for certain?
 

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I wouldn't put your hopes too high on a new engine. I started going down that road when nobody could find anything wrong with mine and it was firmly put down by Kia. In the end they did fix it, although whether it was cheaper for them than fitting a "pool/reconditioned" engine I don't know (all diagnostic/workshop time taken into account). In my case we were talking approximately 5 weeks of dealer time.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
That really worries me. 5 weeks is an absolute disaster. If the car is in the dealer for more than 2 days I will be very vocal on the subject. I did take a gamble on Kia, having never owned a Kia before, but IF the warranty means that the car is in the garage for half its life without courtesy car then it's not much of a warranty. But I do say "IF". I hope Kia will deliver good service and a timely remedy.
I need a decent car for my work and opted for a sensible, economical estate car which projects the right image to the customers and representatives I deal with. If I end up using some other vehicle while mine is being fixed I will be having to apologise to them and pointing out that the Kia failed.
I did NOT buy a £15k brand new car to end up running around in a borrowed second hand car while the manufacturer tinkers with this and that to get the cheapest fix possible - my time is valuable, and they must realise that.
 

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If there was a broken piston ring I would expect the car to always burn oil, and to emit blue smoke constantly. Perhaps the same for valve seals? What do you think?
ED..I have just supposed few possible causes. However, seems to be something related with the clearance between engine parts which is reducing when the engine is warmed up. On the other side you are saying that

.... Come to think of it the car goes from noisy to quiet apparently randomly, too....
I think you should closely monitorize engine oil consumption along at least 1000km. Depending on findings, you may rise/sustain your claim further.

Concerning engine change in whole I'm also sceptic since my friend (ceed,1.6 petrol engine) was having a terrible damaged engine (caused by BIG metal chips found inside the engine) but Kia preffered to change manny parts (pistons, camshaft, valves, etc..) to a local dealer instead of changing the bloody engine. Whole job was about three months, but fortunately, courtesy car was there....

OT: about professionalism... instead of letting us supposing this and that, dealer should investigate the claim ..regardless of the time required...and of course, courtesy car is a must !! For me this is also part of professionalism ! ;)
 
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