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Discussion Starter #1
Having been motoring for about 30 years I can remember the car engines of the late 60s and 70s requiring major surgery, possibly a new short motor at 100,000 miles or 160,000 kilometres. And what has technological advances done since those days with motors that now, quite happily rev. on through 300,000, even up to 500,000 kilometres with little or no fundamental repairs.

Image my shock and aggravation then, when our Kia Carnival engine, with probably less than 100,000 kms under its belt, proceeds to spit coolant into the crankcase big time. 'I've never seen anything like this", was the implausible and highly sus. exclamation of the local Kia dealer and, "Oh, YOU must have overheated it." He put us on the right path straight away; our fault, silly us.

Nice try mate. But I knew that the engine had not overheated because my early motoring experience is still with me: I religiously check the engine fundamentals of coolant, engine oil and of course, the safety items. So I kept asking myself and then others, why a basic item such as a seal below a cylinder would cease sealing at such low kilometres.

The more I inquired the more I learned about the Kia Carnival's known engine problems between 1999 and 2003. I heard about the head gasket trouble and the cylinder sleeves that loosen and then vibrate thus breaking the seal between the coolant's passage and that of the engine oil.

So I it put it to Kia Motors Australia that, as this is a 'known problem' happening on a low kilometre engine of theirs - this is the second motor in the 1999 Carnival - the owner's (that's me) reasonable expectations that he is motoring with a reliable engine has been heavily thwarted and therefore, Kia should foot the advised $6,500 bill.

I believe it is fair and equitable to expect a fundamentally reliable life out of an engine if the owner does his bit by monitoring the engine's vitals. Unfortunately, Kia has not done their bit and, judging by information coming to me, they seem to be intent on ducking their responsibility.

I have received a reply from Kia that they do not intend to fix the problem at their cost so I am now in dispute with them and I certainly won't be allowing them to use the 'out of warranty' excuse. KNOWN PROBLEM DURING WARRANTY; VALID PROBLEM NOW.

Signed,
Not Impressed
 

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Hello Donbf

You are right there have been stories of heads warping on the Carnival/Sedona models.

You don't say how old your vehicle is.

I am based in the UK as far as I'm aware you can no longer buy new petrol versions over here.

However I have come across two examples, one 1999, 2.5, 48,000miles on the clock the other 2001 2.5 with 78,000 miles on the clock, both blocks cracked at that milage.

Both engines were replaced under waranty but the 78,000 miler, the owner had to put up a **** of a fight with Kia UK, they claimed vehicle had been allowed to overheat, bla,bla,bla.

All power to you Don, take Kia on, I just don't think you're going to get anywhere
unless you can show there was a fault with your engine when built that's led to the problems your having now.

Mean while take a look at www.mycarstats.com, you will have to register.

Under the Kia Sedona,Carnival section don't be fooled by nothing showing under engine problems look through some of the posts.

The first one I came across was coolant leaking into engine.

Keep us informed
Seacam
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Seacam, the Carnival is a 1999 model however it is a second engine.

I'll check out your suggested website.

Will keep the info. flowing.

Cheers.
 

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Donbf,

Out of curiosity, was your 1st replacement engine a reconditioned one or a newy? I only ask as I had to have mine replaced c/- the cylinder sleeves failing. The old unit was swapped out for a new short motor, whereas previously they were replaced with reconditioned ones.

Have you had any other probs with your kia other than this?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I understand that first engine was a gasket problem and was replaced; hence 'A" after engine number. This is previous to my purchase so am vague on details. That episode however, did spit engine oil into the coolant resulting in an -unbeknown to me- uncleaned radiator going belly up on me being full of white gunk. $750 to replace that.

The only other problem with this vehicle that I encountered was the auto transmission kicking down into second during level even running and staying there for quite some time.

All of these failings are a great shame for a vehicle that is roomy, comfortable and smooth riding for a large family with luggage.

Cheers.
 

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my kia carnival also spit coolant but not the way yours did. the bottom radiator hose had been rubbing against the chassis for the past 4 years (since i got it new), it eventually gave way (due to the constant rubbing) and made me lose all my coolant and overheat (good thing i noticed something odd about the level of the water thermostat monitor and pulled over). little glitches like this make me want to hate those kia engineers but, no, i still love my carnival and try to make her a better ride
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Jaimie, I would describe your problem under the heading of shoddy workmanship perhaps Mondayitis mistakes however my problem comes under the far more outragious endemic design faults the responsibility for which KIA Motors and dealers are apparently attempting to avoid once outside the warranty period, by accusing unsuspecting owners of overheating their motors.

Well, I am not accepting that nonsense from them; it is their inherent design fault and they will carry the cost of fixing the problem with a 6 month warranty as well.

Cheers
 

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Hello Donbf

Go for it,

Between 99/2001 there was a problem with a batch of the petrol engines, I think
Carnival engines are 3.5cc where as our version were 2.5cc

I have only been a Sedona diesel owner for about two months but when I first looked at the vehicle almost immiedatly I came across 2 petrol examples
where the heads or blocks had cracked and in the last few days two more owners now selling who also had to have the petrol version engines replaced.

As I write there is a forum member, Paul Woodhall, he is going through a simular
experiance as youself, he has had two heads in the last 18 months I think.

Some of the early diesel models had problems as well.

At the moment Paul is trying to nail Kia UKs a** to the wall.
Seacam
 

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I am going through the same thing and I tell you i wont give up until i win, NEWSPAPERS AND TELEVISION HERE I COME....
I purchased a 2001 kia carnival only 4 months ago, with 110,000 ks on the clock., my car now has a blown head gasket. ( just like the other thousands) I got it towed to a Kia centre, they confirmed what the other mechanic said, a blown head gasket, needs a new motor, total $4751.05 , they put a claim in for me I got back a reply of NO we are not helping at all because it has already had a new short engine only 9000 km ago (which i did not know about) they 100 percent guaranteed me that the 2nd motors HAVE NEVER FAILED.
they also said it was my fault I must of overheated it, a Kia case manager said to me, "you were the only one on the highway, they are YOUR version of events, we dont know we were not there, so you must of overheated it." I authorised the mechanic to pull the motor apart and do what he had to, he found that the liner measurements were low. which is the reason the Carnivals motor has blown from day 1, the liners move and blow the gasket. The mechanics put a new claim in for me once getting these readings and were sure Kia would help, once again a no. So now I have all my information, from the internet, and I am lucky the mechanics are on my side, they say "i am sick of these companies getting away with murder". If Kia had of come back and said we will pay for parts and you pay for labour i probably would have said yes just to get my car back, well now they have blown it, I will be going for eveything, motor, labour, hire car, loss of work, stress, I have printed out all the letters from people it has happened to and ruined lives, I am getting an engineer to do a report on the motor tomorrow, I have lodged a complaint with department of fair trading, if they cant do anything I am Taking Kia to the CTTT, $30 to lodge the claim for a judge to hear. I have come on here and in 2 hours found all these letters that are the same, some families have paid up to $14000, cmon people do something about it, why should they get away with this. I will not stop until they pay for my motor, I dont care how far i have to go, if that means today tonight Ill be there. But the more people who put in complaints the better it will be for all of us.

and about people getting a new short engine, YEAH RIGHT
my new short engine thats only 9000 km new, well it was a refurbished one,
Kia lied to me on the phone and said no no it is new, but it isnt, they forget engines have numbers and history.
I also got told today the engineer must come tomorrow, as the broken engine needs to be sent back, I asked where, oh its an exchange, they get this motor, what so some poor family gets it again for the third time. ITS ROBBERY.

my dream beleive it or not was to own a KIA one day, what a dream this has turned out to be, I dont have that sort of money to pay repairs, whats the saying
becareful what you wish for..................UNDERSTATEMENT
 

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We have a 2001 carnival that we use for our Childcare centre for school runs. It hasnt hit 60,000km yet and has just joined the legion of lemons. Without any warning, the radiator filled up with engine oil. Its less than a year out of warranty. The dealer said they will need a week before they can look at it, because they have overbooked their workshop by 20 hours every day??? Funny part when i was there with the tilt tray, there were about 4 guys standing around chatting, occasionally looking into engine bays, basically doing nothing. I'm told that "if it needs a replacement engine" that will take 8 weeks !!! Gee, I wonder why there is such a delay?? Must be a high demand on these motors?

Sounds to me like we're going to get the same BS response. Kia knew there was a problem long ago. Given the extrodinary rate of failure of these motors, I would have thought that a recall should have issued. I think they have deliberately let it go, wearing those that failed under warranty, and brushing off any that failed outside of the warranty period as "not there problem"

With so many people in the same boat, maybe we would be better to take them on as one large group, instead of individually. Class action comes to mind.

Good luck with it all anyway.
 

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If a code came up in the ECM, then the dealer can see what the conditions were when the code was set. The check engine light doesn't have to be on for a code to be in the ECM. So...the dealer can see if the engine was overheating when the code was set. Go back to the dealership and tell the service manager that you want the van checked for codes, and you want to watch. When he goes to the screen that says "diagnostic trouble codes", surprise him and tell him you want to see the "freeze frame data" screen. The engine temperature at the time the code was set will be listed on this screen.

If they're going to charge you $4700 for a new engine, you have every right (by law, in the States anyway) to know what the problem is.
 

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Hi there - I own a 2002 model Kia Carnival and the 3 year warranty will expire 31/10/05. Recently I've had unexplained moisture appearing inside the drivers side headlight. A rumour was going around that this may be a symptom of cooler system problems. Has anyone heard of this? Also, has anyone got advise of what type of engine inspection I should arrange to check for the coolant/seal problems outlined by my fellow Carnivale owners in this forum? Rather discover a problem now and not the day after warranty expires. Kind regards - Ian Wright Brisbane
 

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Moisture in the headlight has nothing to do with this problem. One of the seals is probably starting to leak. Moisture gets trapped inside, so if you pull out the headlight and drill a small hole in the bottom (or in a place you won't see) the moisture that gets in will have a way to get out.

There really isn't a practical way to check for this problem until it happens. When it does, you would do a pressure test on the coolant system. If it won't stay pressurized, then there is a leak.

Keep an eye on your coolant level. It will drop slowly, but you would also notice the engine might start to misfire (from coolant in one cylinder) and you will see white smoke that doesn't go away. When you first start your van in the morning, there's going to be white smoke, so don't panic. This is just condensation in the exhaust burning off as the pipes get hot. There is also a one-of-a-kind smell that goes along with the white smoke when theres coolant leaking into a cylinder.

IF you're noticing oil in the coolant, you may not have the white smoke because then there's a leak between the oil and coolant passages, and not (probably) between the coolant passages and a cylinder. If you noticed this early enough, you would probably be able to save the engine; you'd have some work to do still, but shouldn't need a new engine.

These engines are a real pain to work on, so I'm sure the labor won't be cheap.
 

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Thanks for the advice. I received an email the other day from Kia Australia stating that the cooling system fault only occured in the 2000 & 2001 models. Funny thing is I found an article where a spokes person for Kia admitted the fault occurred in models up to May 2002. My people mover was manufactured Aug 2002, but I have no faith in what Kia has to say and still feel worried about this problem. Will keep an eye on the coolant and any smelly white smoke - hopefully it never occurs. Does anyone out there know if you can purchase an extended warranty suitable to protect against this fault? Perhaps extending the warranty to 5 years?
 

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You can buy an extended warranty in the uk, i bought one
for my kia sportage cost around £560 includes breakdown
recovery as well, covers everything except battery, clutch,
and exhaust,lasts for 2 years. :beer:
 

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hi,
i just read your message, and i remembered what i was told by the mechanics at a KIA service place, he told me that usually the mixture of oil and water comes out of the headlights, if i were you and only have a little warranty left I would be getting that car checked out immediately,

i called in an independent engineer, he took all the measurements on my motor, as it was out of the car, there was only 1 liner out of 6 that was the right height, 5 of them were too low, causing the head gasket to blow, overheating a car will NOT make the liners shrink, i have this information from several mechanics, so any of you owners out there who kia say "you overheated the car" its a lot of crap.....
fight fight fight, get the engineers report done before your motor gets sent back, as that report is what you need to win in court with the cttt.

I sold that Kia, 3 days ago, i am glad to be rid of the shitty thing, i lost 13 thousand dollars in 5 months....... but i am happy that its out of my life, now all i have left to do is go to court and get back my $5000

i encourage everyone to not give up, take the pricks down this is their problem and it hasnt been fixed,
 

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I have just started my battle with kia motor to get a new short engine replaced fOC and a loan vehical.
My 2000 Carnival which I bought as a used vehical five months ago had oil in the radiator and coolent tank.
I was informed by the seller that the Vehical was replaced with a new engine which kia assure her that the problem will not reoccure again.
Please advice me how to win this battle with kia.
 

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hi,
i really feel for you, i know exactly what your going through, i too had mine for 4 months when it happened, it was then i found out the motor was only 10 thousand kilometres old, its just had the 3rd motor put in,

YOU MUST CALL IN AN INDEPENDENT ENGINEER, GET HIM TO PULL OUT THE MOTOR AND MEASURE THE LINERS FOR YOU, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS TO TAKE THEM TO THE CTTT, WHEN YOU HAVE IT LODGE A COMPLAINT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF FAIR TRADING, THEY WILL TRY TO SORT IT OUT FOR YOU, WHEN THE HAVE FAILED, YOU LODGE A CTTT COMPLAINT, TO WIN YOU MUST HAVE THE ENGINEERS REPORT.........

I RECIEVED MY REPORT LAST WEEK, IT TOOK HIM 2 WEEKS TO WRITE IT, AS EVERY WORD HAS TO BE RIGHT AS KIA WILL TRY TO GET OUT OF IT AND TELL YOU THAT IT WAS YOUR FAULT YOU MUST OF OVERHEATED THE CAR.......
5 OUT OF MY 6 LINERS WERE ALL TOO LOW, ONLY ONE WAS LEGAL SIZE, BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO LOW IS THE PROBLEM IT ALLOWS THE WATER AND OIL TO MIX GRADUALLY FINALLY ENDING IN A BLOWN HEAD GASKET,

YES KIA ARE SAYING THEY HAVE FIXED THE PROBLEM, ITS A LOAD OF RUBBISH,
I PASSED 2 BROKEN DOWN KIA CARNIVALS ON THE HIGHWAY TODAY, GETTING PUT ONTO TOW TRUCKS, IF IT WASNT THE MIDDLE OF BRISBANE I WAS GOING TO STOP TO TELL THEM WHAT THEY NEED TO DO,

I HAVE ALSO PRINTED OUT EVERY COMPLAINT ON HERE I HAVE FOUND, AND MORE AT WWW.CARSURVEY.ORG
AND RACV AND NRMA, I JUST PUT A KIA CARNIVAL ENGINE SEARCH INTO GOOGLE.COM.AU AND I GOT HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LETTERS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS AND ALOT MORE,

KIA TOLD ME ON THE PHONE THAT THEY GUARENTEE ME 1005 THAT A SECOND MOTOR HAS NEVER FAILED. THIS STATEMENT IS A LIE. IF YOU SEARCH YOU WILL FIND MANY.

GOOD LUCK WITH IT ALL, DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS CRAP, ALL KIA CARNIVALS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RECALLED IN WARRANTY OR OUT, ITS KIAS FAULT AND THEY SHOULD PAY.

IF I LOOSE IN THE CTTT, WHICH I AM SURE I WONT BECAUSE I HAVE THE VERY IMPORTANT ENGINEERS REPORT, BUT IF I DO I WILL BE GOING TO TODAY TONIGHT OR A CURRENT AFFAIR, I WONT STOP TIL I WIN, THEN I AM GOING TO PRINT 100 COPIES OF ALL OURS AND OTHER WEBSITE COMPLAINTS AND I AM GOING TO STAND AT THE KIA CARYARD AND HAND THEM OUT TO CUSTOMERS WHO ARE LOOKING AT KIAS, IF I CAN STOP A FEW SALES THAT WILL BE MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THEY WILL LOSE,

GO FOR IT, AND GET EVERY PEICE OF INFORMATION YOU CAN, FROM EVERY SOURCE YOU CAN............................
 

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Hello,Kia Going Down,

Someone else who is trying to do doing something about this issue at long last.

I don't have the problem but I'm so behind you and others and wish you well.

If I might give a bit of advice, don't get bogged down or led down the road of design faults, that hopefully is a rolling stone Kia will have to deal with because of the efforts of people such as yourself.

Your complaint/argument as I see it lies soly with the problems with your engine, it's easier to prove if it goes to the CTTT

Experience of others is useful to show as a reference but keep focused on your complaint and engineers report not design faults.

Kia would rather be felt of as incompetent or poor build then recall, it's cheaper.

Keep at it, thump desks, you have my vote and if Kia settle, remember you want your costs back.

Keep posting
Seacam
 
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