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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

My 2011 Picanto petrol cut out while driving and wouldn't start. It cranks over fine. Cheap code reader says P1690 . Google search shows P1690 to be immobiliser or crank sensor. Immobiliser light does not light when ignition turned on- can't remember if it used to light up before the problem. Checked fuses all ok. I've tried cleaning connections to immobiliser aerial\antenna receiver ring around ignition barrel but still won't start. I'd just replace the aerial/antenna receiver ring if I was sure it would work but have read posts here that that sometimes doesn't work.
Is there anyway to check the aerial/antenna ring?
Does anybody know if the immobiliser stops the spark to the plugs or does it stop fuel or does it stop both?
Any help appreciated.

Thanks
 

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Immobiliser light does not light when ignition turned on- can't remember if it used to light up before the problem.
The immobiliser light should switch on along with the other usual warning lights when you first switch the ignition on.

Avelar said:
Is there anyway to check the aerial/antenna ring?
The ring antenna is just a coil of wire, so you could use a multimeter to check there is continuity through the coil.

In my experience though when there is a problem with the ring antenna the fault is very intermittent. It sounds like you have a hard fault on your car.
Also, I doubt the engine would cut out due to an immobiliser fault. The immobiliser is usually only active when the engine is cranking. Once it's running the immobiliser doesn't do anything. So I'm thinking this might be a power supply problem rather than a ring antenna/key issue.

Have you located the smartra module that the ring antenna connects to? It might be worth checking to see if there is a good power supply and earth/ground on the module harness connector...see below.

Avelar said:
Does anybody know if the immobiliser stops the spark to the plugs or does it stop fuel or does it stop both?
The early SMARTRA immobilisers that I used to work with inhibited the fuel injectors.

The colours don't represent the wiring on the car


 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Autospark that's some really good information. I tried to trace the wires from the antenna but they disappeared into a big loom. Can you tell me where Smarta module is? I checked for a spark at the plugs and with a good ground on the engine and I couldn't see a spark when engine cranking.(maybe that what the Smarta does via the red 'IGN 12V' you have in your picture?) You may well be right about a loose wire because I'm sure(but not certain) I had just bumped over a speed bump when the car died. Thanks again
 

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Can you tell me where Smarta module is?
Sorry, I've never done any work on a Picanto so I don't know exactly where it is. Generally it's located somewhere close by the steering column though. It's a small box not much bigger than a match box...
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Thanks again Autospark. I can't see anything like this anywhere. Is it possibly integrated into the ECU on the Picanto?
 

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Is it possibly integrated into the ECU on the Picanto?
I think that is unlikely because the the signal voltages that come out of the ring antenna are very low so they wouldn't want a long length of wire between the antenna and the module.

Sorry, but I'm a former Hyundai tech so I'm not that familiar with Kia models. While I was having a look online trying to find the location of the module I found that 2011 was a change over year for the Picanto when a new model came out. Is yours the earlier model or the later? What engine is the car fitted with?

 

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Yes Autospark I see your point about the voltage drop. My car is a 60 plate but registered 2011. It is a BA model(in between SA and TA models I think) and has a 1.0 litre 4 cylinder petrol engine so I think its the earlier model. I've been looking on the internet for the Smartra module location and from what I can see it may be above the steering column behind the instrument cluster. One thing I should mention is that during my investigation I found there is a strange set up in my car in that the antenna ring around the ignition was not connected to the loom and instead another ring, with a completely different key taped to it, was connected to the loom. This was all hidden behind the plastic shroud around the steering column. This was a bit of a shock to find. I've had the car since September (bought at the local BCA car auction)with no issues until now. Do you think the key being constantly taped to the ring could have burned something out in the antenna ring/Smartra? I think the previous owner didn't want the expense of a new antenna ring and got the ring and key from a breakers and the antenna ring and key are paired together. So I don't think an official Kia dealership has done this work. Do you know if the antenna ring and Smartra are coded/paired together and are these paired to the ECU? One other thing- the ignition barrel assembly that clamps around the steering column must have been changed at some time also as the assembly has 'picanto' written on it with yellow paint - which I've seen breakers do before. I don't know if that is related to the problem but I've read that sticking ignition barrels is a common problem. The key from the ignition fits all of the doors. I'll remove the instrument cluster today and have a look behind it for the Smartra module and report back. Once again thanks for all your help Autospark, I really appreciate it.
 

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One thing I should mention is that during my investigation I found there is a strange set up in my car in that the antenna ring around the ignition was not connected to the loom and instead another ring, with a completely different key taped to it, was connected to the loom.
Yes, you should have mention that at the start. Did you remove that other ring and key? If you did put it back the way you found it. The engine wont start without it because that is the key that is coded to the engine ECU. I don't think that explains why the immobiliser light isn't coming on though. And it wouldn't explain why the engine cut out either.

One simple thing I should have had you do right at the start, but didn't because I got side tracked by looking for the smartra module, is check ALL the fuses. Since the smartra module is hidden somewhere you might as well check the fuses now before you go dismantling any more of the car.

Testing the fuses is best done using a voltmeter (or a test light). If you look closely at the fuses you'll hopefully see that each one has two little terminals on top. Those are the fuse test terminals. To quickly test the fuses all you need to do is switch the ignition on, connect the black probe of your voltmeter to a good earth, then probe the little terminals on top of each fuse using the meters red probe. You should find that the voltage is the same on the two terminals of each fuse. If you find a fuse that has a different voltage on each of it's terminals that fuse is blown and should be replaced...

I was telling you to check the voltage supply at the smartra module, but the most likely cause of no voltage there is a blown fuse. So hopefully you find a fuse blown which will save you from having to test right at the module. And don't forget there are two fuse boxes, one on the dash and one in the engine bay. And it's normal to find a few fuses with no voltage on them. The tail light fuses for example wont have power when the lights are off. But pay particular attention to any ECU, SNSR, INJ fuses. I'd expect fuses relating to the engine to all be powered when the ignition is on.

Avelar said:
Do you think the key being constantly taped to the ring could have burned something out in the antenna ring/Smartra?
No.

Avelar said:
Do you know if the antenna ring and Smartra are coded/paired together and are these paired to the ECU?
I don't think those parts are coded on your car. I've certainly replaced smartra modules in the past without having to code anything.
The key is coded to the engine ECU. It sounds like your car has maybe has a second hand ECU fitted at some point which would explain the hidden key.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
Apologies for not mentioning the other key. Since I found it I've always kept it connected. I'll check the fuses this afternoon. Thanks again.
 

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😃😃😃(y)(y)(y)(y)Thanks Autospark it's fixed! It was a 10A fuse in the middle of the top row of fuses in the fuse box below the steering wheel. The fuse was marked SNSR so you were bang on target on all counts. That was a great way of checking the fuses too. I can't thank you enough mate.(y)
 

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it's fixed!
RESULT!
Just sorry I didn't tell you to check the fuses right at the start. When I am asked to diagnose a fault that's the very first step I take, and It's usually the very first bit of advise I offer on the forum. Kinda got side tracked on this one a little bit...LOL.

 

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Autospark its happened again. I done the exact same 20 mile round trip and the car cut out at the exact same speed bump. I tried a new 10A fuse but it blew straight away. So I think I have a wire shorting somewhere. I'll go out later on and wiggle the wires behind the fuse box. What do you think?
 

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What do you think?
I think the most likely place for a SNSR (sensor) fuse short circuit to happen is on the the wiring leading to one of the O2 sensors. Check the O2 sensor wiring on the catalytic converter at the front of the engine. The wiring for the downstream sensor is often secured in metal clips attached to the heat shield. Sometimes the vibration of the engine can cause the metal clip to chaff through the insulation shorting the wiring to the hot exhaust. That's the first place I would be looking.

 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Autospark. I checked both O2 sensors they seemed visually fine though I never stripped off the loose outer casing to check wires inside.
I’ve looked at the fuse table and the blowing fuse serves the following-

Fuel pump relay
Immobiliser module(Smartra?)
Lamda sensor
Crank sensor
Camshaft sensor
Brake switch

When my son was measuring the resistance in the circuit after the fuse at the fuse terminal (battery disconnected) I had it changing from zero resistance(short) to resistance(no short) when I disconnected the downstream 02 sensor connector. But I was also seeing something similar when wiggling wires to the Crank sensor. I couldn’t get either to repeat. When I had a stable reading with resistance I popped another fuse in and started and ran the engine to get it really hot. I then went around trying to wiggle wires to all the above components but couldn’t get a failure. I’ll take my ampmeter with me next time I’m driving with spares fuses and if I get another failure I’ll try disconnecting connectors to all these parts to see if I can confirm where the issue is. So weird how it failed at the same speed bump and after the same drive!! Any other suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
 

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Any other suggestions greatly appreciated.
Sorry, but there isn't a "by the numbers" way of finding short like this. It's more to do with luck than anything. Sometimes you find the problem fairly quickly, sometimes you end up pulling your hair out.

Assuming your car is fitted with the same 1.0 engine similar Hyundai models are fitted with, this area on the crank sensor wiring looks like a potential trouble spot to me...see below. The crank sensor wiring looks to be pulled tight onto the engine block just where it passes behind the timing belt cover next to the crank pulley. Also, the sensor wiring routes down the back of the timing belt cover passing close to the water pump pulley. You would want to check that the wiring in that area is properly secured to keep it clear of the fan belt and pulley.
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Thats an idea- I may even change it anyway.I'll keep you posted, thanks again.
 
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