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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone have pics of their Borrego on All Terrain or Mud Terrain tires? Most of the Borregos we have looked at are still wearing the factory Hankooks since they only have 20-30K miles on them. Since we live in the Northeast I'd be inclined to get rid of them right away since they're junk in the snow anyway. I was thinking of something like these:

https://www.treadwright.com/popup.aspx?src=/images/product/large/98_1_.jpg

From I've read they are the best compromise between noise, treadwear, traction, and snow grip (the tires are treated with a process similar to siping). I might go with something a little less aggressive like these though, which probably have better road manners:

https://www.treadwright.com/popup.aspx?src=/images/product/large/29_1_.jpg

I'd love to see pictures of a Borrego with a tire that better fits its abilities.
 

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Anyone have pics of their Borrego on All Terrain or Mud Terrain tires? Most of the Borregos we have looked at are still wearing the factory Hankooks since they only have 20-30K miles on them. Since we live in the Northeast I'd be inclined to get rid of them right away since they're junk in the snow anyway. I was thinking of something like these:

https://www.treadwright.com/popup.aspx?src=/images/product/large/98_1_.jpg

From I've read they are the best compromise between noise, treadwear, traction, and snow grip (the tires are treated with a process similar to siping). I might go with something a little less aggressive like these though, which probably have better road manners:

https://www.treadwright.com/popup.aspx?src=/images/product/large/29_1_.jpg

I'd love to see pictures of a Borrego with a tire that better fits its abilities.
For sure, either of those tires would be very noisy. I put all season michelin latitude tours on my borrego. We don't get a lot of snow in atlanta, but they did just fine last year during two episodes of record snow/ice storms.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
For sure, either of those tires would be very noisy. I put all season michelin latitude tours on my borrego. We don't get a lot of snow in atlanta, but they did just fine last year during two episodes of record snow/ice storms.
I'll gladly take the increased noise in trade for excellent traction. Great all seasons just can't offer the kind of traction that even a mediocre all terrain can. At least for the forseeable future the Borrego will be used for short trips by my wife and daughter with 60 mile trips to see family, go camping, etc...on the weekends. In the winter time even short trips can get hairy around here since we have plenty of 12% grades with switchbacks. We do a fair amount of overlanding in the Spring, Summer, and Fall too. Maybe I'll be the first to post pics of a Borrego with a proper set of tires ;)
 

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Here in Long beach, CA, there is a silver V8 with BFG A/T KO's I think they're 285/75 (33") more likely 265/75 (31) I was looking at for a bit 'cause it looked great!

Those are incredible tires, even on a large truck, you can expect 45-50k miles. My friend had them on an F-150 and got 55k.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Here in Long beach, CA, there is a silver V8 with BFG A/T KO's I think they're 285/75 (33") I was looking at for a bit 'cause it looked great!

Those are incredible tires, even on a large truck, you can expect 45-50k miles. My friend had them on an F-150 and got 55k.
Would 33s fit without rubbing? I was going to stick with a diameter no more than 31-32...
 

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Im considering a more aggresive tread also for my next tire purchase. My Borrego LX V6 4x4 seems to take off great in snow if im going straight. If im cornering in snow it sucks. The back end wants to fly out and fish tale on me. Thats in Auto or Locked in 4x4 HI. You guys having that problem also?

Steve
 

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If you are buying tires that need to perform on snow and ice, don't judge them by the tread pattern. Big knobby aggressive tires are the WORST you can buy for ice. Siping is what you need, not knobbies.

I run nokia wrg2's or vaativa's as my dedicated winter tires. The things stick like glue on ice! (just haven't run them on the borrego yet, I've got wrg2's on my subaru and vaatives on my older sportage. The borrego doesn't leave the garage if there is snow/ice, the other two vehicles run circles around it.)

 

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Discussion Starter #8
If you are buying tires that need to perform on snow and ice, don't judge them by the tread pattern. Big knobby aggressive tires are the WORST you can buy for ice. Siping is what you need, not knobbies.
You might want to read up a little on the tires I posted. They are made with a process that 4WD/Off Road Magazine has tested called "Kedge Grip." It involves a rubber compound mixed with finely ground glass and a mold that is injected with crushed walnut shells which form microscopic pits in the tread blocks. It creates an effect similar to siping, but supposedly better. I know a lot of guys running them on Super Duty pickups-many that plow in the winter time and they love them. This makes for an MT/AT that performs exceptionally well in ice and snow. That said, we don't really get a lot of ice up here-just snow.

I run nokia wrg2's or vaativa's as my dedicated winter tires. The things stick like glue on ice! (just haven't run them on the borrego yet, I've got wrg2's on my subaru and vaatives on my older sportage. The borrego doesn't leave the garage if there is snow/ice, the other two vehicles run circles around it.)
I had Nokias on a 2WD Volvo and they were awesome. That being said, not sure why you wouldn't want to drive the Borrego in the snow? With proper tires it shouldn't be an issue. My other reason for wanting a more aggressive tire is for what we'll be doing with the Borrego during the other three seasons. We do a lot of camping, hiking, fishing, and swimming/picnicking at some remote lakes that aren't easy to get to, especially in late spring when the roads (gravel/dirt) haven't been fully reconditioned after mud season. In late April/early May the only vehicles you see up there are 4x4s with decent tires and there aren't as many people. By 4th of July the roads have been regraded and there's everything from Honda Civics to Toyota Corollas up there and you can't move!
 

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That being said, not sure why you wouldn't want to drive the Borrego in the snow? With proper tires it shouldn't be an issue.

The AWD system of the borrego leaves much to be desired... Even when the dial is set to 4x4, it needs to detect slippage before the front does anything useful. I question why even have the dial, other than low range. There is zero difference between auto and 4x4. The traction control constantly fights the AWD also. From a dead stop, I've gotten the borrego stuck in 4 inches of snow on a slight incline, I ended up having to back up and turn around. Turning off traction control helps significantly in slow speed snow/ice conditions.

One of the offroad magazines did a review of the borrego, and the summary was pretty much it can't get out of its own way.

(I've got the borrego version with the torson Torque-on-demand center transfer case, I understand there is a version with an actual locking diff that would be far more capable, if you can live with the limitations of a real transfer case.)



My other two vehicles also have nokians on them, the borrego is on its OEM all seasons, so that by itself makes it an invalid test. The other two vehicles are a subaru wrx with nokian wrg2's, you simply can't get any better on snow/ice than the subaru, and a first gen sportage with locking Warn hubs on nokian vaativa's. Yank the 4x4 lever on that, and the front has no choice but to help out! Putting nokians on the borrego would help, but it doesn't get over the limitations of the AWD.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The AWD system of the borrego leaves much to be desired... Even when the dial is set to 4x4, it needs to detect slippage before the front does anything useful. I question why even have the dial, other than low range. There is zero difference between auto and 4x4.
Actually I don't think that's true? From what I've read, the manual specifically warns against driving in 4HI on dry pavement because the system is locked and there is no slippage between the front and rear wheels. The only time slippage is allowed is when its in AUTO. If driving on dry pavement in 4HI will cause damage that means the front and rear must be locked.
 

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Actually I don't think that's true? From what I've read, the manual specifically warns against driving in 4HI on dry pavement because the system is locked and there is no slippage between the front and rear wheels. The only time slippage is allowed is when its in AUTO. If driving on dry pavement in 4HI will cause damage that means the front and rear must be locked.
That has been my experience also. Last year when we had a lot of snow, I would see some slipping in auto, but not in 4x4hi. I spent a lot of time driving around in the snow and ice testing the capability of this truck, thus my comments.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That has been my experience also. Last year when we had a lot of snow, I would see some slipping in auto, but not in 4x4hi. I spent a lot of time driving around in the snow and ice testing the capability of this truck, thus my comments.
Agree-if 4HI allowed for slip it wouldn't be 4HI, it would be all wheel. As far as I know there are only two types of 4WD systems that came on the Borrego and the 1st gen Sorentos:

EST (Electronic Shift Transfer) - ??? Sportage and 2003-2009 Sorento

Basically this is like what you would find in any pickup today-an electronically (as in not an actual shift lever) shifted transfer case engaged by a knob on the dash. EST vehicles have a selection of 2HI, 4HI, and 4LO.

TOD (Torque on Demand) - 2003 Sorento (optional) and 2009 Borrego (standard)

This is essentially the same as EST in terms of 4HI and 4LO but there is no 2HI-2HI is replaced by an AWD system that transfers torque "on demand" to the front wheels if the computer deems it necessary. AWD is the default for all terrain and road conditions as the system is not locked, and the front and rear can vary in speed without a problem. In 4HI or 4LO the system acts just as any other conventional locked 4WD system-not AWD.
 

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I've had a suspicion, but after reading the last couple posts, I don't think my 4x4 system is doing much of anything... Drove it to work today, and did a quick test. In 4x4 mode, I put my foot lightly on the brake, and then gave it a little gas. (I was on snow/ice) The rear tires spun like crazy, the front didn't budge at all. (esc was disabled)

Time for it to go to the dealer...
 

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In snow my rears slip a little and then it justs grabs and takes off like a rocket. So I do think there is something wrong with your 4x4. My does like to fishtale a bit. I think that has a lot to do with the tires.

Steve69
 

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For sure

For sure the stock hankooks suck on snow and ice.


In snow my rears slip a little and then it justs grabs and takes off like a rocket. So I do think there is something wrong with your 4x4. My does like to fishtale a bit. I think that has a lot to do with the tires.

Steve69
 

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Discussion Starter #16
For sure the stock hankooks suck on snow and ice.
Our Borrego is coming with these:



I'm not actually sure why as with 28K the stock Hankooks should have had enough left life in them to pass the CPO inspection, but I'm not complaining either. These look like marginal A/Ts at best, but they're probably better than the Hankooks. The car is currently making its way east (hopefully without any weather delays) and is set to arrive Thursday!
 
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