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Discussion Starter #1
The death toll continues to rise for Coalition troops in Afghanistan with the news that an Aussie Digger with 22 years experience and 7 tours of Afghanistan under his belt has been killed!!!:(:( My heart goes out to his family!!!:( The Aussie death toll is now 33 brave soldiers!!

Australian Soldier Dies on 7th Tour of Afghanistan - ABC News

Also a few days ago an Australian Army dog was killed in another firefight, his ashes will be returned to Australia!!!:(

In my book both man and dog are Heroes!!!

RIP!!!!!!
 

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my heart goes out to the family and as mentioned by the prime minster a dreadful blow and wow 7 tours a true warrior and yes both men and the dog are both heroes!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE IN FREEDOM R.I.P
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
There is a bit of a discussion going on in Australia at the moment about "Is seven tours in a war zone too much". I personally think it is, this man had done his duty and I think a grateful Government should have said "enough is enough" By the way another dog has been killed in Afghanistan. These dogs are a true credit to themselves and their handlers who would be very upset at losing a "true mate"!!!:(

Oh, I must mention that Aussie soldiers in Afghanistan have won 2 Victoria Crosses ( Australia's highest award for bravery in combat) it is the first time since the Vietnam war that VC's have been awarded. The wording on the award simply says "For Valour"!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, it's a difficult one. The English tried it in the late 1800's, the Russians tried it in the 1980's and now the Americans are there along with the British and our troups.:( It's a situation where you have to stop terroism which because of certain religious beliefs and other reasons started in these areas.

What do you do??? If you back out, you give them an open ticket to cause further problems and if you stay are you really welcome in a society that is vastly different to our ways ??

It's like Vietnam, are our brave soldiers wasting their lives for nothing???

But, you cannot have a situation like 9/11 occurring again where many people including a lot of Australians lost their lives to fanatics!!!

Is a certain religion a religion of war, who knows, I don't!!!
 

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Auscerato...
When I first read your post (i was one of the first) I really was fighting for something to say that meant something...I waited till some correct thoughts were in place...

I am not a war hawk nor a peace activist... I'm a member of a small world that also has groups of people that are hellbent on killing others in "the name of God"...

They can be Christians/Muslims/Buddhists.... Let the finger point at the offender(s)
There is no right or wrong as far as addressing these "people"... They MUST be contained for the 99% of civilization's sake...

This is what our brave men are doing and dying trying to...

These problem makers WILL visit your "safe" world and destroy your way of living (It's called Civilization) if we do NOTHING.

Sitting across from them at "peace talk" tables DOES NOT WORK!!! They will lie to you, take your money (appeasement funds), and then use it to fund their future attacks...
Just look at Iran with their lies about NOT enriching uranium for nuclear weapons projects. Peace niks want to talk while they continue to create weapons to cause havoc on the majority of civilization. With these fanatics talk(s) won't work action does...

I'm saddened by the brave men's deaths but I honor and pray for them and their families. They have a "dirty" job to do just like we Australians/Americans/Canadians/English did in Europe during WWII with another fanatic and in Asia with Japan..
It's just a reality on this small piece of rock called "Earth" that we must control or live in chaos...

May the "all mighty" (what ever you call him) give them peace

I wish not to offend ANYONE that has a sane sense of civility...
Dave
 

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes Dave,

I read your post several times to get an idea of what you are trying to say. Like you I am of the middle ground, I have always said "live and let live":) If the Afghanistan problem remained in Afghanistan I would say "let them work it out themselves, it is none of our business".

However, when you have a situation like 9/11 it then DOES BECOME OUR BUSINESS!!!:mad:

I will always remember history when Neville Chamberlain went to Nazi Germany and tried to appease Hitler. He returned to England proudly proclaiming "We have peace in our time". Look what happened, not long after Hitler's armies invaded Poland. Like you I say "we cannot deal with despots or fanatics, the only thing they understand is the use of force".

Unfortunately dealing with despots/fanatics has become much harder as unlike the 1940's you are not dealing with countries and conventional armies.
You are dealing with somebody who is living amongst us who has trained to cause mayhem when they think the time is right. It makes it very difficult to maintain our way of life.

Going back to Hitler, he wanted to rule the world and cleanse it of "impure races" in his book the "Aryan Race" was superior and everybody else was just rubbish to be cast aside.

Same for the Japanese in WW2 who wanted to create "The Greater East Asia
Co-Prosperity Sphere", they tried to sell it as all Asians are superior but in fact they really wanted to pillage the natural resources of their neighbours for their own use.By the way during WW2 the Japanese dropped more bombs on Darwin than they did on Pearl Harbour, they raided Darwin something like 160 times.

So have we got a right to be in Afghanistan...........You bet!!!!!

North Korea is a real worry!!!:(
 

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The killing has been somewhat indiscriminate in Afghanistan; who knows how many potential enemies we've made?
 

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What we do know is the bad ones that were killed are now searching for their "promised" rewards. ...and...They can do no more harm!

There are civilian casualties in almost all military actions.
Do we stop because of them??? How many innocent Germans and Japanese had to die in order to stop the madness of their "leaders"?

How about the 3000 persons that died in the twin towers (including some innocent Muslims)? Or the innocent passengers that died in a farmers field in Pa? The terrorists DID make some "potential/real enemies" like YOU said. I'd say they were VERY indiscriminate in THEIR actions
What would you do if it came home close to you?
They like indiscriminate killing but NOT real well on their own soil.

You probably hand them a "Dove" and say "let's be friends!" ... They'd slit your throat with out a second thought... Sorrily... Your logic won't hold water in the real world we live in.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The killing has been somewhat indiscriminate in Afghanistan; who knows how many potential enemies we've made?
Sadly, that is very true. In a war zone there are always "civilian casualties" does that make us wrong to react to terroism though??? In WW2 the Allies used two atom bombs on Japan and the civilian population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki paid a terrible price. But think of the lives it saved, if the Americans had invaded Japan the carnage on both sides would have been unbelievable.:eek:
Like Davespectra I do not believe in offering Despots/Fanatics a peace offering, they don't understand/comprehend peace. Their idea is to force their way of thinking onto other people by force. It is difficult when you are dealing with the type of people who are "sleeping" among you and have no fear of death, who believe they are going to a "better" place if they are killed.

A fear I have is if they are not controlled now, could they get hold of a portable nuclear weapon, smuggle it into central Sydney (for example) and set it off.:eek: Could you imagine the devastation, what would you do then? Turn the other cheek??? I doubt it!!

Better to face up to terroism now before it gets out of hand!!!
 

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Does it really matter where it came from?
Your logic of backing away does not work and hasn't over the centuries.
You can't ignore or attempt to make a deal with these types it just does not work.

You are doomed because your logic simply does not work. It's been proven time and time again.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George_Santayana
or
"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it” ― Sara Shepard

The ONLY way to address EVIL is head on ...and past history proves it..
You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend that it will just go away.
 

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I can certainly remember some other examples of unsuccessful military adventurism. Afghanistan will return to its former state after 2014; Pull out now and save some lives.
 

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I certainly remember many more attempts of your logic failing than Multinational Military action loosing... They are in the history books...The pacifists ideas get nowhere and allow these idiots to keep to their agenda UNTIL we overrule your bunch.. (Germany/Japan/Italy/Iran in the future)

Your comment "Pull out now and save some lives." shows your ignorance.
The Taliban won't stop at Afghanistan....You and others are on their map and they could care less about little "ol" pacifist you... The death figures would only climb.

You are overruled...
 

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these extremist hate us and there is nothing they will stop at to kill you and anybody else as they advocate violent resistance to all that challenge their political or religious goals and this violence is known as terrorism and they could care less who they kill along the way and this cancer must be stopped in its tracks if not its death to what freedoms we enjoy today!!

Some words of wisdom see below.

C.S. Lewis, “Why I Am Not a Pacifist”, The Weight of Glory (1949)

Armies which stand ready to do battle in defense of freedom are the only deterrent to others who would want to take it away. That is the reality of it, whether you like it or not.

“The dustbin of history is littered with remains of those countries that relied on diplomacy to secure their freedom. We must never forget…in the final analysis…that it is our military, industrial and economic strength that offers the best guarantee of peace for America in times of danger.” President Ronald Wilson Reagan
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I can certainly remember some other examples of unsuccessful military adventurism. Afghanistan will return to its former state after 2014; Pull out now and save some lives.
Of cause there has been other examples of unsuccessful military attempts ...the Americans in Somalia....for example. But what do you do when extremists kill innocent people in the name of "their cause"??? 9/11 where several thousand people were killed and Bali where several hundred Australians were killed deserves a response. In the Bali case the Indonesian Government arrested the offenders and put them on trial. In the 9/11 case no country was going to admit to training them but investigations proved they were trained in the Afghan/Pakistan area.

Afghanistan like Somalia is ungovernable so the Americans (and us) went in to try to stop this sort of thing in future. Afghanistan, as history shows is a difficult country to control and bring into line with civilised nations.

Will our military intervention work???? only time will tell, but it sure beats sitting on your butt wondering when the next attack by extremists will happen!!!!

Evil people must learn that their evil deeds will bring a reponse by civilised people who will no longer tolerate such behaviour!!!
 

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and Bali where several hundred Australians were killed deserves a response. In the Bali case the Indonesian Government arrested the offenders and put them on trial.
How does the sentencing of those terrorists compare to those caught carrying drugs? - If I recall correctly they got light sentences compared to those caught with drugs.
 
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