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2016 Sorento EX V6
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Wishful thinking. Let's consider facts - EPA numbers:
1. Kia Sorento 2021 7-seater 2.5L Turbo: 24 Combined, 21 City, 28 Highway
2. Kia telluride 2021 7-seater 3.8L NA: 21 Combined, 19 City, 24 Highway

Winner is clear here, no need to argue. However, since you like details, let me add to the story. Turbo engines are MORE fuel efficient at a steady highway cruise - that's why you see 4mpg increase even considering Telluride has Atkinson cycle mode. Turbo engines run rich ONLY when pushed - at higher rpms. Exactly why 2.5L Turbo engine has a huge amount of torque (almost diesel like) that allows it to never push rpms up:

1. 2.5L Turbo has 311lb.-ft. torque already at 1500rpm!
2. 3.8L NA has 262lb.-ft torque at 5200rpm.
I don't have to tell you what that means. One of them will have a freight train torque from down low and will be a much more fun to drive car than the other and all this while still being more fuel efficient and quieter ride (no need to rev rpms up). Telluride powertrain is indeed dated - it loses in every aspect.
That is not how a turbo engine works lol! :oops: ("Turbo engines run rich ONLY when pushed - at higher rpms.")

The reason turbo engines can make so much torque down low is because they are in boost (more air and fuel is being forced into the engine making behaving like larger displacement engine)! When in boost, turbo engines have to run richer than a NA engine (due to the extra heat created by compressing air, extra fuel is required to prevent detonation vs a NA engine). While hauling a 4,000 pound SUV it will be in boost almost all of the time while accelerating (city driving). Unless someone drives very gingerly (which most people don't, especially when opting for the more performance oriented engine option), the 2.5T will not be all that efficient in real world city driving.

Revs are not the primary reason turbos engine to eat fuel, it is the boost (and then richer fuel curve need to prevent detonation than a NA engine). Also, a torquey engine like the 2.5T will never need to rev high in the first place (as it is under boost!) in normal or even fairly spirited city driving.

Yes, the Telluride gets worse EPA mpg than the new Sorento with the 2.5T in the city but turbos frequently get worse mpg in the REAL WORLD and that is why I said it will likely be no better and possibly worse in the REAL WORLD than a new Sorento if it was equipped with a 3.3 or even a 3.8. The weight savings between the new Sorento and the Telluride would also help the mpg of the 3.8 be a little better if it was put in the new Sorento than in the Telluride.

No argument from me on the highway the 2.5 would get better MPG and it has more low end torque. That being said, it will likely be less reliable. I am curious to see if the new 2.5T Sorento is quicker than the Telluride. I suspect the 2.5T will be really quick to 30 and 60 but the trap speeds may be pretty close.

Also, the 3.8 does not lose in every aspect as you indicated. It will be more refined, likely not any louder when not reved high (and even if it is, it will have a more pleasing sound than an 4 cylinder) has less moving parts and is a proven design (likely significantly more reliably), less maintenance, and similar real world mpg (except during highway driving). That being said, due to KIA's generous warranty, I would not be too reluctant to buy the 2.5T. But, when it is up there in mileage and if it needs repairs that the 3.3 or 3.8 would never have needed, that small fuel savings would not seem like it was worth it.
 

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2017 Kia Niro Touring w/Tech Pkg, Blue/Grey
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Discussion Starter #162 (Edited)
from the Kia media and hyundainews websites.. you can download pdfs of Features, Specs, etc... look for press releases...

Sorento is 1" longer (189.4 vs. 188.4) with a 1.7" longer wheelbase (110.6 vs. 108.9). than the 2021 Santa Fe.
 
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Discussion Starter #163
One thing I missed on my spreadsheet:

Santa Fe Ltd Hybrid has acoustic front side glass that the Sorento Hybrid EX doesn't have.
 

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2019 Kia Niro PHEV EX Premium; 2015 Subaru Outback 2.5 Ltd
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njerald, I really appreciate the time and effort you take to summarize all this stuff and share it with us. 🙏
 

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2017 Kia Niro Touring w/Tech Pkg, Blue/Grey
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Discussion Starter #165 (Edited)
njerald, I really appreciate the time and effort you take to summarize all this stuff and share it with us. 🙏
Thanks, love doing it....just a lot of differences between the available trims.

When these cars show up at the show room, I will know more about them than anyone at the dealership(s).

Will have a few months before the Hybrids show up. Haven't heard yet if the Sorento Hybrids will be made in Korea like the Santa Fes...

Just want to look at colors (exterior/interior).....then go home and buy one from somebody within 5 states....
 
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Discussion Starter #166
2021's should be soon based on 2020 inventory:

Within 50 miles of me, only 3 2020 Sorento SX vehicles and only 14 Santa Fe Limited and Limited 2.0T vehicles available....down a lot from 2 weeks ago.
 

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> 2021's should be soon based on 2020 inventory >>
That seems a little optimistic as I've got the impression that they aren't rolling off the assembly line yet. Do you know otherwise? Will both the Santa Fe and Sorento be produced at Kia's West Point GA plant?

<< When these cars show up at the show room, I will know more about them than anyone at the dealership(s). >>
Ain't that the truth for we car geeks!
 

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Discussion Starter #168
I have no inside info but expect them at the dealers in 4-7 weeks...just my guess.

Santa Fe non-hybrids will be made in Montgomery AL. Santa Fe hybrids will come from Korea (just initially?).

Haven't heard about Sorento hybrid manufacturing site.
 

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Discussion Starter #169
cross posted from the Santa Fe forum re: 2020 respective prices:

Use Truecar.com

2020's In my area:

Sorento SX V6 AWD, MSRP $43,405, Market average $35,753

Santa Fe Limited 2.0T AWD, MSRP $40,750, Market Average $37,243

If you go one step further at the website, you will get the Truecar price at your Truecar dealers. It should be better than the Market average but everyone qualifies for different Mfr. incentives.
 

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Discussion Starter #170
Just looking at the 3 SX non-hybrid trim options:

SX 2.5 T only gets the 4.3 digital instrument panel and missing other better features...

Prestige 2.5T is FWD only. but all other features included.

X line 2.5T has AWD and all other features and cosmetic changes....
 

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Discussion Starter #171 (Edited)
My Choice based on Specs and Features published so far: Maybe the PHEV options of the two will be better....

These are the differences I can find: ..

116381
 

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Discussion Starter #172
Looking at Features that are offered outside North Ameiican markets....

Sent to Kia America..........

116397
 

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2019 Kia Sorento SX
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Are you sure all of these are misisng in the SX Prestige trim? I have options such as Rain sensing wipers, Power folding mirrors, 2nd row sunshades, Home link mirror, Acoustic front side glass, etc. in my 2019 SX trim. The SXL trim at the time had Napa leather and Heated rear seats. Why would all of these by not available in the top trim in the new model?
 

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Discussion Starter #174
Are you sure all of these are misisng in the SX Prestige trim? I have options such as Rain sensing wipers, Power folding mirrors, 2nd row sunshades, Home link mirror, Acoustic front side glass, etc. in my 2019 SX trim. The SXL trim at the time had Napa leather and Heated rear seats. Why would all of these by not available in the top trim in the new model?

Good question!!!!!!!

This is according to the Kia releases to date...either they won't be there or Kia Marketing has screwed up again with the material they are putting out.....

Either way, it's stupid!!!!!
 

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Sad to say that it appears that U.S. 2021 SF may not have the 10.25 Touchscreen display nor the 12.3-inch digital instrument display.

On Hyundia USA's website those features have an " i " by their discription. Clicking on the i results in this message: " Non-U.S. model shown. Some features may not be available in the U.S".

2021 Hyundai Santa Fe - Arriving Fall 2020 | Hyundai

I'm having a hard time understanding why would the Korean market get these wonderful features but not the U. S. market.
 

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Discussion Starter #176
Sad to say that it appears that U.S. 2021 SF may not have the 10.25 Touchscreen display nor the 12.3-inch digital instrument display.

On Hyundia USA's website those features have an " i " by their discription. Clicking on the i results in this message: " Non-U.S. model shown. Some features may not be available in the U.S".

2021 Hyundai Santa Fe - Arriving Fall 2020 | Hyundai

I'm having a hard time understanding why would the Korean market get these wonderful features but not the U. S. market.
The Hybrid SF Limited has both larger screens listed as STd. in the features trim.....The SEL is available with both as an option. small displys on the SE
 

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Discussion Starter #177
Quantity and Selection on the SF Hybrid may be a problem as they will be imported from Korea. Sorento Hybrid from ?????.
 

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Discussion Starter #178
Months ago, had my mind set on a 2021 Sorento Hybrid SX (or higher). Wanted 2nd row captains chairs and 3rd row seating. Disappointed when it is only offered in 2 stripper trims.

Then I looked at the 2.5 Turbo SX Prestige as an alternative and compared to the respective Hyundai Santa Fe models.

Spreadsheet below shows the differences that favor the Santa Fe almost across the board.

How far Kia Marketing has fallen:.........


Features
Sorento SX Prestige
Santa Fe Limited
Santa Fe Limited
Calligraphy
Engine
2.5 Turbo​
1.6 Turbo Hybrid​
2.5 Turbo​
2.5 Turbo​
Wheels
20"​
19"​
19”​
20”​
Rear Wiper
Hidden​
Conv.​
Conv​
Conv​
Spare Tire
Compact​
NO
?
?
Drive
FWD​
AWD​
FWD, AWD opt.​
?
Acoustic Front Side Glass
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Power Folding Mirrors
? incl in 2020
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Captains Chairs 2nd row
Yes​
NO
NO
NO
3rd row seating
Yes​
NO
NO
NO
Rain Sensing Wipers
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Driver Power Seat
10/2​
8/4 w/ leg ext.​
8/4 w/ leg ext.​
8/4 w/ leg ext.​
Power Pass seat
8 way​
6 way​
6 way​
6 way​
Heated rear seats
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Audio
Bose 12 spkr​
Harmon 630W, 12 spkr​
Harmon 630W, 12 spkr​
Harmon 630W, 12 spkr​
Homelink mirror
? incl in 2020
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Digital key
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Remote parking
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Rear Seat Quiet mode
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
City Fuel Economy
22
38
22 FWD
21 AWD
3 year oil changes incl.
NO
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Est. MSRP
$41-42,500
$41-42,000
$40-41,500
$43-43,500
Driving/Fog Lights
Yes​
NO
NO
NO
Heads Up Display
NO
NO
NO
Yes​
Rear Auto side windows
NO
NO
NO
Yes​
Ambient Lighting
NO
NO
NO
Yes​
Perforated Steering Wheel
NO
NO
NO
Yes​
Blue Link
NO
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Trailer Sway Control
NO
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Trailer Wiring
?
?
Yes​
Yes​
Memory Seat/mirrors/phone
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Voice recognition(temp,windows
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
Drivers seat leg cush. Extension
?
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
 

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2017 Kia Niro Touring w/Tech Pkg, Blue/Grey
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Discussion Starter #179
 

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Discussion Starter #180
Just sent this message to Kia America via Contact us:

2021 Kia Sorento:

Where is the self leveling rear suspension?

Where is the Parking assist?

Where are the folding mirrors?

Where are the heated rear seats?

Where are the Rain sensing wipers

Where is the memory seat/mirrors/phone?

Where is the ambient lighting?

Where is the heads up display?

Where are the one touch power rear side windows?

Where is the more way power drivers seat from 2020?

Where is the acoustic front side glass?

Where is the Homelink mirror?

Where is the SX or SX Prestige Hybrid trim?

Trailer wiring???

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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