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2020 Kia Sorento SX, 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT Tech pkg. Former 2014 Kia Rondo EX Luxury,
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You mean the previous generation? I have no idea.
Yeah I was confused. You mentioned all we needed was a software update and we are discussing the previous generation. I was thinking that you were suggesting we would get an update to get the features.
 

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Kia Sorento 2021 (1.6 T-GDi AWD, XL Prestige Line)
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Sorry for the confusion then. My point was that even the newest generation doesn't support Wireless Android Auto despite being equipped with a proper hardware. You can enter engineering mode in your car and check if it has a WiFi module.
 

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2020 Kia Sorento SX, 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT Tech pkg. Former 2014 Kia Rondo EX Luxury,
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262 Posts
Sorry for the confusion then. My point was that even the newest generation doesn't support Wireless Android Auto despite being equipped with a proper hardware. You can enter engineering mode in your car and check if it has a WiFi module.
No worries :) Good tip about engineering mode...I'll have to check it out for sure!

edit:
I was able to access Engineering Mode on my 2020 SX trim (has the navigation) but there is a passcode to get in. Turns out for me my passcode was 2900 . This was the toughest part as the codes seem to change.

To get to the mode you just go to the headunit update screen, and to the left of the update button in the empty space, tap 5 times, and then tap once to the right of the button. Lots of videos that demo this if needed.

There might be wifi capabilities in my car. I didn't want to go into too many settings without making sure I knew what I was doing first (and my Korean is not great, but I'll use Google Lens to translate next time)... looks like there is a menu available for a wifi module (in some areas of the menu options were greyed out, in mine the wifi was not):

116840


I suspect you are indeed right, and there could be an option to enable it.
 

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2020 Sorento LX 3.3
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I'm not worried about charging, my phone doesn't fit properly in the forward console compartment with the USB plug in, I have a fairly large phone. If you put any lateral stress on the USB jack, it will likely damage the jack, that would be unfortunate. My grandson kills the USB port on his phones in about 6 months, I've had this Galaxy S8+ for around 3 1/2 years, and it's as good as new, I'll bet it's got another couple good years in it. I would like the convenience of having the AA connect automatically without taking the phone out as well. If I had the wireless, I could plug the charger in on the phone in the glovebox and drop it in there, it would be charging and it would fit without putting pressure on the USB connector.
You need to get a phone case with metal liner and one of these!

20210111_112749.jpg

Get a phone case with a metal liner and one of these. Holds my phone over bumpy roads and improves charging with wireless charging too. I highly recommend it.
 

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2020 Sorento SX, 3.3L AWD
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A metal liner precludes wireless charging, that's a non-starter! Both my daughter and grandson have had phone replaced because the charging jack gets damaged, they're quite fragile! I want to ELIMINATE the USB cord to the phone. I've used wireless charging for the last two phones, I only use the USB jack when I need the connectivity.
 

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2020 Sorento SX, 3.3L AWD
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"This case" isn't very descriptive, so I have no idea what you refer to. The only metal cases I've seen certainly do NOT allow wireless charging as it's an inductive process.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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Metal case = faraday cage = no magnetic waves = no inductive charging
 

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2016 Sorento SXL
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Permeability <> Faraday. -- rather different animals, and at different frequencies.
You can do the job with ferrous alloys and mu-metals, not much with other materials. Depends upon the metal of the case, and given what these cases are made from, it's not likely to be a major problem.
A thin aluminum case is going to a very poor job of blocking low frequency magnetic fields.
Also remember why aluminum pans won't work on an induction stove top.

Take a bunch of folds of foil between two decent magnets some time. Won't bother them a bit, apart from the spacing caused by the thickness of the aluminum. Inverse squared is a bugger in that regard, no matter what you're working with.
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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A thin aluminum case is going to a very poor job of blocking low frequency magnetic fields.
And its not going to be attracted to a magnetic mount.

Very poor photo an description, so making the assumption that its a magnetic mount/holder.

Edit: See that mount on Amazon and it is magnetic, so cant see how the induction charging is going to work well, if at all.
 

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Kia Sorento 2021 (1.6 T-GDi AWD, XL Prestige Line)
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Pitaka MagCase is working very well with wireless charging. I got few myself.
 

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2020 Sorento SX, 3.3L AWD
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Pitaka MagCase is working very well with wireless charging. I got few myself.
Did you ever think to look at the materials that case is made of?

Aerospace-grade aramid fiber

I may not be a materials expert, but I don't think that sounds like metal. ;)

Permeability <> Faraday. -- rather different animals, and at different frequencies.
You can do the job with ferrous alloys and mu-metals, not much with other materials. Depends upon the metal of the case, and given what these cases are made from, it's not likely to be a major problem.
A thin aluminum case is going to a very poor job of blocking low frequency magnetic fields.
Also remember why aluminum pans won't work on an induction stove top.

Take a bunch of folds of foil between two decent magnets some time. Won't bother them a bit, apart from the spacing caused by the thickness of the aluminum. Inverse squared is a bugger in that regard, no matter what you're working with.
I'm in awe, you figured out how to do this and yet Google had to cut a hole in the aluminum to allow the phone to charge!

Here’s how Google put wireless charging in the aluminum Pixel 5

Let me ask you a question. Do you actually have a phone with an all metal back that charges on a standard wireless charger? If not, have you ever actually tried charging a phone through an aluminum sheet??
 

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2020 Sorento SX, 3.3L AWD
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To put a final wrap on the question of inductive wireless charging through aluminum, I just tried an experiment. I used the thinnest aluminum I have around, aluminum foil wrap, and put that between the phone and the charging plate. As expected, the aluminum, thick, thin, or otherwise, blocked the inductive charging. You can see that the charger is activated just by placing the foil on the surface, the sensor sees a "phone" and tries to activate the charging process, that's the flash of blue. I'm assuming it senses an overload and keeps dropping back to the sensing state, that's the green LED's. When I put a phone directly on it without the tinfoil, it correctly just lights up blue and the phone commences charging.

TEST RESULT: When I put the phone on the charger with the tinfoil between it and the phone, THE PHONE DOES NOT CHARGE.

This concludes our little demonstration.

 

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2016 Sorento SXL
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I have no idea what that particular charger is sensing that is upsetting it, but it isn't the absorption of energy by aluminum. Whether a particular charger design will actually work in such instances isn't anything I've addressed. Whether aluminum is capable of blocking a magnetic field from a charger is.

As I say, you can stick two magnets on opposite sides of a piece of foil, and they totally ignore the foil. That goes for non-static fields at ELF frequencies as well.

Here's a reasonably straightforward article on the topic by an outfit that makes material that really does do the job >> Shielding Materials
 

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2020 Sorento SX, 3.3L AWD
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You're comparing static magnetic fields with AC induction. I tried four different chargers with the same test with aluminum foil, including the one in my 2020 Sorento. NONE of them will charge through the aluminum foil. That's zero out of four, all different brands.

I know about magnetic shielding, in the avionics industry for engine instrumentation, we used MuMetal shielding heavily on engine sensors for that very reason. However, we're talking apples and oranges here.

If charging through the aluminum works so well, you still haven't explained why Google, who I expect has some pretty sharp engineers, had to cut a hole in the Pixel 5 case back to allow wireless charging. At some point, you might actually do some testing if you expect to prove your point.

If you look around, Qualcomm has actually come up with a scheme to charge through metal cases, however it's not an inductive charger that is used in phones today. Qualcomm uses a technique called Magnetic Resonance. AFAIK, it hasn't been fitted to any phones in the market yet, probably because all the existing charging products would become obsolete. I'm guessing that most of the manufacturers are perfectly happy to work around the metal body issue. Making an incompatible wireless charging phone would preclude sales to folks like me that have the wireless charger in their car that works on the inductive charging principle.

Qualcomm invents way to wirelessly charge mobile devices with metal bodies
 

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99 Kia Elan 1.8L
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You need to get a phone case with metal liner and one of these!

View attachment 117226
Get a phone case with a metal liner and one of these. Holds my phone over bumpy roads and improves charging with wireless charging too. I highly recommend it.
That makes no sense.

The metal needed to attract / adhere to that mount would block or severely reduce the induction charging.
 

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Interesting thread, this thread discussion started about the Android auto and Wireless connection capability then the discussion moved on to the wireless charger and the case now the discussion is moving towards the science project. If this trend continues then I guess based on the knowledge will get from this thread, all of us will become eligible for Ph.D. 📚

Pun intended. You guys continue. I have my popcorn ready 🍿
 

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Here's the net argument, something I think Maxwell would approve:
Materials used in magnetic shielding must have a high permeability. Aluminum does NOT have high permeability. In fact, the permeability of aluminum is just EVER so slightly higher than that of WOOD!

This is why you don't throw only a simple RF-trapping Faraday cage around an MRI treatment room and call it good. That might keep any RF from coming in (which is important to equipment operation) or going out, but it doesn't keep the magnetic field in. Where required due to equipment sensitivity to magnetic fields in adjacent spaces in the building, an MRI room design has to incorporate BOTH features, not just one. MRI treatment room magnetic shielding is usually fabricated from sheet silicon steel (plate is a pain to work with by comparison). Notice that they don't use aluminum <g>.

If all that was needed in any MRI installation was RF attenuation, a Faraday cage to handle the RF could be made from thin copper screen and that would be the end of it. Your theory, OTOH, asserts that this would provide protection for both RF and magnetic fields.


You're comparing static magnetic fields with AC induction.

Nope. Notice prior comment >> "That goes for non-static fields at ELF frequencies as well."
I was just trying to provide an experiment that anyone could do at home.


I tried four different chargers with the same test with aluminum foil, including the one in my 2020 Sorento. NONE of them will charge through the aluminum foil. That's zero out of four, all different brands.

Evidently all with the same design issue. They're seeing something that is causing them to shut down. You can't very well charge anything if that happens.

I know about magnetic shielding, in the avionics industry for engine instrumentation, we used MuMetal shielding heavily on engine sensors for that very reason. However, we're talking apples and oranges here.

If charging through the aluminum works so well, you still haven't explained why Google, who I expect has some pretty sharp engineers, had to cut a hole in the Pixel 5 case back to allow wireless charging.

The phone designers, who probably understood the underlying physics and hence, had no reason to anticipate failure, were being thwarted by something done by the charger designers. Again, my original comment was to point out that the physics should prove no insurmountable problem for these case designs, not that there might be some underlying flaw in the design concept that keeps them from working properly.

At some point, you might actually do some testing if you expect to prove your point.

I will do so, though it may take a few days to get around to it. Gotta wind the coils. Remember, my original argument was with regard to the materials in question. See if you find this acceptable:

24V 20VAC transformer through (I'll decide later) a coil of x feet of xx gauge wire. Oscilloscope connected to an equivalent coil of wire. Supply current through transformer. Place coils in fixed proximity to one another. Observe nifty 60Hz signal on oscilloscope. Slide aluminum foil between the coils while continuing to observe the oscilloscope for signal attenuation. Compare.

Having dealt with this issue innumerable times in equipment design, I've done the empirical testing with other devices. If there's an issue with cell phone chargers, than it's an issue with cell phone chargers.

It's not tough to demonstrate that a magnetic field passes through a piece of aluminum foil, providing the control for the magnetic field doesn't shut down of its own accord, which oddly, seems to be what is happening with these consumer chargers.
 

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Just looked at that article re Qualcomm, and I am mystified by this unfounded comment:

"What's so special about charging devices with metal bodies or cases? Wireless charging technologies that use an induction charger heat up metal objects, making an induction-based system incompatible with anything metal."

Notice the unqualified use of the word "metal".

If this were true, the titanium and 304 stainless used for implants in the human body would make it a total disaster to conduct an MRI on a person with those implants. Of course, we know that isn't the case. We also know that a piece of aluminum cookware (sans any special ferrous base added) thrown on an inductive cook stove doesn't heat up, either. Identical principle. We're back to permeability.

Whatever the charger problem was that Qualcomm set out to address, the author of this article certainly didn't identify it in that sentence above.
 
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