Kia Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

Registered
22 Sorento SX-P PHEV Silky Silver
Joined
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I made a quick video to demonstrate the EV mode acceleration in the PHEV model. I've seen a few comments from PHEV owners and people looking into getting one and some are confused about how they operate.

This may be a bit different for the non-prestige versions and maybe an SX owner can chime in on whether or not there's a similar meter on the dash.

 

Registered
2022 Sorento SX-P PHEV
Joined
189 Posts
As it's been 馃サ馃サ here lately and I'm blasting the A/C all the time, I've (subjectively) noticed slipping into running the ICE more often. I use the dynamic display theme, which doesn't display the power meter, so I'm not sure if I've been pushing into that power band or not. Curious what your climate settings were during this video (I can see the exterior temp is....not low ).;)
 

Registered
22 Sorento SX-P PHEV Silky Silver
Joined
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm guessing you're hitting that power section a bit too long. I've ran the AC full blast and never had it trigger the ICE.

Even if you're parked it'll run the AC on EV only. It'll ramp up the DC fan to pull air like a normal car. If you step out near the engine compartment you'll hear the compressor and fan going strong. It'll surely suck your battery down though.
 

Registered
2022 Sorento SX-P PHEV
Joined
189 Posts
Very true - and I can confirm that if you leave the A/C running long enough it'll suck the battery down so far that the ICE will kick in, even when standing still.

I guess my question really boils down to whether there is a limit on current draw from the HV battery pack, and whether running the A/C compressor at full and pulling every one of those 90HPs from the traction motor exceeds that limit. If so, makes sense that the ICE would kick in to supplement the available current from the HSG (even in EV mode where the ICE is not coupled to the drive).

I'm curious - but not really curious enough to go out and devise a test. I do wish there were more engineering data available on the operation of the PHEV system.
 

Registered
2022 Sorento SX Prestige PHEV
Joined
29 Posts
My commute to work is very hilly so I sometimes need to push it deep into the power zone to accelerate up a hill from a stop. 90hp isn't enough to move this beast uphill from a stop with any sense of urgency. It takes a lot of downhill regen to get any of that back. In any case when the ICE does kick in it feels rather seamless and smooth, although I'd prefer a more powerful motor to make the ICE unnecessary in EV mode.

My one and only beef with this car is the extreme hesitation in Eco/EV mode when accelerating from a stop sign. When I lift my foot off the brake and place it on the accel, there is a 1-2 second lag on average, which is excessive and frustrating. I'm not sure if it is a programming issue or if there is some sort of mechanical thing happening that causes the delay, but it can be unnerving.
 

Registered
22 Sorento SX-P PHEV Silky Silver
Joined
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My one and only beef with this car is the extreme hesitation in Eco/EV mode when accelerating from a stop sign. When I lift my foot off the brake and place it on the accel, there is a 1-2 second lag on average, which is excessive and frustrating. I'm not sure if it is a programming issue or if there is some sort of mechanical thing happening that causes the delay, but it can be unnerving.
I have noticed a subtle lag sometimes. It's not every time I'm at a stop but when it does happen it's noticeable. If we had the dual clutch trans I'd expect something like that, but this has a standard 6 speed auto. Maybe it's in the system that transfers power between the EV motor and the ICE engine to the transmission.
 

Registered
2022 Sorento SX Prestige PHEV
Joined
29 Posts
Maybe it's in the system that transfers power between the EV motor and the ICE engine to the transmission.
There shouldn't be any transfer between ICE and electric motor in EV mode. I suspect it may have to do with a power mode change between regen and power draw; maybe there needs to be some brief stabilization, but I've never experienced that much lag in any other PHEV.
 

Registered
22 Sorento SX-P PHEV Silky Silver
Joined
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There shouldn't be any transfer between ICE and electric motor in EV mode. I suspect it may have to do with a power mode change between regen and power draw; maybe there needs to be some brief stabilization, but I've never experienced that much lag in any other PHEV.
I was thinking there was a clutch or gear system connecting the ICE and electric motor but it looks like the electric motor is mounted between the ICE and the transmission.

You might be right about the regen system causing that lag.
 

Registered
2021 Hyundai Palisade Luxury
Joined
58 Posts
We have Palisade and want to move to either PHEV or EV of nearest comparable size and comparable msrp. That's why Model X is not on our list - too expensive (same for upcoming Rivian SUV - way too expensive and unobtainable too). A lot of small EVs are not on list either (Niro, Soul, Bolt etc). Really the only choice comes down to Sorento PHEV just because it's msrp is close to Palisade (we are going to do trade in) and also it has 3 rows - as with Palisade.
Yes I know it's only 6 seats, but that's not the thing that we dislike. We are concerned with having a ICE (with turbo) and hybrid system together (and on top of that 6-speed auto) - this is a bit too much in terms of maintenance and reliability - twice as many components and more risks of something to fail after warranty and more maintenance than EV, and on top of that battery isn't very big to begin with. It will lose range over time and it has very small margin to begin with. We are just afraid this isn't the best choice if you want electrification. As if that wasn't enough - we are aware of ICE kicking in every time you touch that heat in winter. 90hp barely enough to accelerate (on that YouTube video it took 18 sec to go from 7 to 56 miles - that's way to slow to be used on regular roads, unless you are going to hold off traffic behind you or live in an estate with miles of personal roads and can take all the time in the world to accelerate. That's definitely not enough to climb hills, ICE will kick in every single time you do something slightly off very limited narrow box you are allowed to operate with. Add to that not the best total range - due to smaller tank - this is definitely not the 600+ miles road trip vehicle. I'm still thinking about it, but the more posts I see from owners - the more I realize PHEV isn't the best thing in real world. It does look good on paper, but poorly implemented in real life. Imagine range in 7 years dropping to 75-80% and then driving it in winter - which will reduce range even further. What range will it have in the end? 15 miles at best in winter and even with that ICE will kick in every time you turn heater on to not freeze to death in your quite expensive PHEV that depreciated so much already. Will it even be worth pulling that dead weight at that point? Or rather it's better to stick to HEV or EV to begin with? Questions, questions.
 

Registered
'22 Sorento SX-P, X-Line 2.5t, Wolf Gray
Joined
585 Posts
Or rather it's better to stick to HEV or EV to begin with? Questions, questions.
Look at Sparklander's performance with his '22 Hybrid Sorento. On a fairly long trip with a mixture of highway and some city roads, he managed only 26 mpg! My turbo engine gets 28-30 with the same conditions.
Originally I wanted either a PHEV or Hybrid, but now I am starting to be very comfortable with my choice.
 

Registered
2021 Hyundai Palisade Luxury
Joined
40 Posts
Look at Sparklander's performance with his '22 Hybrid Sorento. On a fairly long trip with a mixture of highway and some city roads, he managed only 26 mpg! My turbo engine gets 28-30 with the same conditions.
Originally I wanted either a PHEV or Hybrid, but now I am starting to be very comfortable with my choice.
I don't think PHEV is a best option. It's flawed. I also watched real world MPG test of PHEV Sorento and it had 26mpg over the 106 highway miles driven. Measured by trip computer and actual fuel at same pump using 2 clicks method. So more or less reliable within 1-2mpg difference at most. I drive Telluride and I get same 25-26mpg on highways. And it's a V6 3.8L albeit with Atkinson cycle capability. So I see no real world benefits to own a HEV or PHEV if you mainly drive highway miles. Initial price difference plus increased maintenance and increased failure probability is just not worth it for some minor savings in fuel which would only make up the difference after several years to begin with.
IMHO you either go all the way to EV or stay with regular combustion engine.
If I had to chose EV right now - I'd go with ID4 as it's most SUV like from all EV competitors. EV6 is good, but it looks like a sedan/hatchback rather than crossover. Ioniq 5 is just a hatchback, not even trying to look like crossover. It's pathetic really. Model Y is good, same as ID4, both look more like an SUV/Crossovers but it's way too expensive. XC40 Recharge also looks like a small SUV, but it's also more expensive and has less range than ID4. All in all - ID4 looks much better both exterior wise and on specs. Mach E is not too bad, but very firm suspension ruins it. People buying EV in that class want a daily comfy driver, not a rough sportcar. The only problem is ID4 only has 2 rows. ID6 has 3 rows and is available in China, but not in US. Hopefully they will offer it here. I'm sure it will be a bestseller.
 

Registered
2022 Sorento SX Prestige PHEV
Joined
29 Posts
Coming from a full-size pickup to an SUV, I wanted something with decent cargo space, plus hybrid fuel economy. The only available option at the time was the Sorento PHEV and I still had to wait 2 months for delivery of the only one they had on allocation.

For my daily use the PHEV makes sense as I can commute on EV only. Long trips will be a concern, however. In HEV mode, under even the slightest load, the instant MPG bar is well below 25. I'm not seeing how that would bode well on any long trips. My semi-annual trek to Buffalo is mostly uphill one way, and with a 13-gallon tank this means at least one, maybe 2 fuel stops, when I'm used to making the entire trip without needing to fuel up before I reach my destination. So it seems like the PHEV is a single-purpose vehicle.

This is why I decided to lease instead of purchase. My hope is in 2025 to turn it in for what hopefully will be a more practical BEV, but we shall see what the future holds.
 

Registered
2022 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
Joined
505 Posts
Look at Sparklander's performance with his '22 Hybrid Sorento. On a fairly long trip with a mixture of highway and some city roads, he managed only 26 mpg! My turbo engine gets 28-30 with the same conditions.
Originally I wanted either a PHEV or Hybrid, but now I am starting to be very comfortable with my choice.
Yes, I am hoping that was an anomaly, but I expect it is not. The Ridgeline I traded in for it, would average 26 mpg on the highway with the 9-speed transmission. The issue was that I rarely go on the highway and it routinely averaged 19 mpg.
 

Registered
22 Sorento SX-P PHEV Silky Silver
Joined
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We are concerned with having a ICE (with turbo) and hybrid system together (and on top of that 6-speed auto) - this is a bit too much in terms of maintenance and reliability - twice as many components and more risks of something to fail after warranty and more maintenance than EV, and on top of that battery isn't very big to begin with. It will lose range over time and it has very small margin to begin with. We are just afraid this isn't the best choice if you want electrification.....the more I realize PHEV isn't the best thing in real world. It does look good on paper, but poorly implemented in real life. Imagine range in 7 years dropping to 75-80% and then driving it in winter - which will reduce range even further. What range will it have in the end?
I agree here slightly, as my planned use for the PHEV is probably just into the 5 year mark. The EV components are 3 year/36k mile warranty, and the ICE carries the standard 10y/100k. I don't foresee any real issues with that few years, but I guess that will have to be seen.

90hp barely enough to accelerate (on that YouTube video it took 18 sec to go from 7 to 56 miles - that's way to slow to be used on regular roads, unless you are going to hold off traffic behind you or live in an estate with miles of personal roads and can take all the time in the world to accelerate. That's definitely not enough to climb hills, ICE will kick in every single time you do something slightly off very limited narrow box you are allowed to operate with.
This is where I disagree. If you were comparing cars 0-60mph times you would say 18 seconds is abysmal. In the real world you don't floor it everywhere, and those times don't mean much unless you're having a pissing contest at the track or hooning around town. Trust me, I drive the infamous E92 M3 with a 4.4 second 0-60. The Sorento PHEV is very manageable in every traffic situation I've ever put it through in the 8400 miles I've logged. They're split about 50/50 EV/ICE miles, so plenty of EV only driving.

Look at Sparklander's performance with his '22 Hybrid Sorento. On a fairly long trip with a mixture of highway and some city roads, he managed only 26 mpg! My turbo engine gets 28-30 with the same conditions.
Originally I wanted either a PHEV or Hybrid, but now I am starting to be very comfortable with my choice.
I can't say much for the hybrid, but the PHEVs 32 miles of range really pumps the fuel economy on longer trips I've taken around the 100-150 mile distance. I made a trip last week that was 80-85mph highway driving to my destination, and 65mph on the way home. I ran out the full battery range before going home to use up those cheap miles (3.5 cents per mile currently on smart hours charging June-Sept), and my trips were 39mpg and 59mpg respectively.

My overall fuel economy over the 8400 miles is 58mpg.

I don't think PHEV is a best option. It's flawed. I also watched real world MPG test of PHEV Sorento and it had 26mpg over the 106 highway miles driven. Measured by trip computer and actual fuel at same pump using 2 clicks method. So more or less reliable within 1-2mpg difference at most. I drive Telluride and I get same 25-26mpg on highways. And it's a V6 3.8L albeit with Atkinson cycle capability. So I see no real world benefits to own a HEV or PHEV if you mainly drive highway miles. Initial price difference plus increased maintenance and increased failure probability is just not worth it for some minor savings in fuel which would only make up the difference after several years to begin with.
IMHO you either go all the way to EV or stay with regular combustion engine.
There's no way the PHEV with a full battery would average 26mpg on a 106 mile trip. If the battery were dead the HEV mode would likely get somewhere in that neighborhood depending on highway speed. The PHEV has already saved me hundreds in fuel cost in less than a year. I'm at around $210 in electricity costs and almost $600 in gas. I will agree, if you drive mainly long distance highway miles you won't save nearly as much.

For the price difference, well, there wasn't any if you qualify and have the tax liability to get back the full $6587 federal tax credit. $50840 minus $6587; $44253 is what I paid with tow package and pano roof. I believe that is close to the SX Prestige ICE. However I'm hearing now that they're phasing that away for non-US manufactured PHEVs/EVs if you haven't ordered a vehicle yet.
 

Registered
Joined
9 Posts
We have Palisade and want to move to either PHEV or EV of nearest comparable size and comparable msrp. That's why Model X is not on our list - too expensive (same for upcoming Rivian SUV - way too expensive and unobtainable too). A lot of small EVs are not on list either (Niro, Soul, Bolt etc). Really the only choice comes down to Sorento PHEV just because it's msrp is close to Palisade (we are going to do trade in) and also it has 3 rows - as with Palisade.
Yes I know it's only 6 seats, but that's not the thing that we dislike. We are concerned with having a ICE (with turbo) and hybrid system together (and on top of that 6-speed auto) - this is a bit too much in terms of maintenance and reliability - twice as many components and more risks of something to fail after warranty and more maintenance than EV, and on top of that battery isn't very big to begin with. It will lose range over time and it has very small margin to begin with. We are just afraid this isn't the best choice if you want electrification. As if that wasn't enough - we are aware of ICE kicking in every time you touch that heat in winter. 90hp barely enough to accelerate (on that YouTube video it took 18 sec to go from 7 to 56 miles - that's way to slow to be used on regular roads, unless you are going to hold off traffic behind you or live in an estate with miles of personal roads and can take all the time in the world to accelerate. That's definitely not enough to climb hills, ICE will kick in every single time you do something slightly off very limited narrow box you are allowed to operate with. Add to that not the best total range - due to smaller tank - this is definitely not the 600+ miles road trip vehicle. I'm still thinking about it, but the more posts I see from owners - the more I realize PHEV isn't the best thing in real world. It does look good on paper, but poorly implemented in real life. Imagine range in 7 years dropping to 75-80% and then driving it in winter - which will reduce range even further. What range will it have in the end? 15 miles at best in winter and even with that ICE will kick in every time you turn heater on to not freeze to death in your quite expensive PHEV that depreciated so much already. Will it even be worth pulling that dead weight at that point? Or rather it's better to stick to HEV or EV to begin with? Questions, questions.

Have you considered the Sorento Hybrid? Nothing against the PHEV but the value prop just isn't there with the elimination of the tax credit. You'll easily pay $50k+ for new one. As for the Hybrid EV, you'll definitely pay over MSRP if you can find one, but if you're patient enough you should be able to find a slightly used one for a more reasonable price. As far as reliability there's a thread 200+ posts deep here about transmission problems on the gas powered versions with 8 speed DCT's. Hybrid uses 6 speed automatic which so far has seemed to provide much better reliability. Of course only time will tell how they hold up, but I wouldn't shy away from a Hybrid just because there are more components. Very pleased with my Hybrid. Averaging close to 40mpg so far and do not have to worry about plugging in every night.
 

Registered
'22 Sorento SX-P, X-Line 2.5t, Wolf Gray
Joined
585 Posts
As far as reliability there's a thread 200+ posts deep here about transmission problems on the gas powered versions with 8 speed DCT's.
Yeppers -- following it closely and fingers crossed that we are just hearing from the squeaky wheel and that it is not a general problem with all DCTs. So far, with the 2021-2022 Sorentos, there have been 130,000+ sold. Non-problem owners tend not to post much.
 

Registered
2022 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
Joined
505 Posts
I am fairly certain the EV system is warrantied for more than 36 months/36K miles. The battery is 10 years/100K miles. If the EV system is only covered for 3 years then everyone should absolutely purchase the extended warranty. I only trust Toyota long term with their hybrid technology, not Kia/Hyundai.
 

Registered
2022 Kia Sorento PHEV SX
Joined
35 Posts
picked up my PHEV sx beginning of the month. Acceleration is fine to me. I use a lot of AC and the ICE hardly even kicks in. Just a little above 1k miles now, still on my first tank of gas, still have 150 range on my gas, almost half tank left. So it just depends on your daily commute. Was pumping gas once a week on a regular basis with my previous vehicle (2015 highlander). Now I haven鈥檛 pumped gas in over 3 weeks, and it鈥檚 only a 12.4gallon tank on the sorento. No complaints here.
 

Registered
2022 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
Joined
505 Posts
As far as reliability there's a thread 200+ posts deep here about transmission problems on the gas powered versions with 8 speed DCT's. Hybrid uses 6 speed automatic which so far has seemed to provide much better reliability. Of course only time will tell how they hold up, but I wouldn't shy away from a Hybrid just because there are more components.
We've just received the first complaint, that I am aware of, with the 6-speed transmission on the Hybrid drivetrain slipping between gears 2-3, on the first startup of the day. Hope it is nothing serious.
 

Registered
Joined
11 Posts
I like the around town range with my SX-P PHEV, but the 90hp engine doesn't work great in my use case. I live in a hilly area with a few very large hills, noticeably on the major parkway right outside my neighborhood. Typical speed on that road is ~60mph and whether I turn right or left, I'm going up a steep hill. Unless I time it right to hit a gap in traffic, it is impossible for me to get up to speed in a reasonable time without the ICE kicking on. Random other big hills in the area will cause the ICE to engage, too, even if I'm already at cruising speed. Besides that particular situation, I'm fine with the EV-only acceleration, I'm a pretty light foot.

I think the size of the electric motor and the lack of an electric heat pump are just poor design choices by Kia, not inherent downsides to PHEVs. Besides those design flaws, I have no complaints with my Sorento!

When my lease is up in '24, I will be on the market for a PHEV or EV, though I'll be looking for a true 3 row by that point.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top