[ik1015]

Not an issue, the vehicle is in the process of being traded.

What is next?

 

[hand-filer]

What is next?

Negotiating on an Edge ST, 401A spec.

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[BrianC302]

Negotiating on an Edge ST, 401A spec.

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Are they offering any significant rebates on that thing yet? I kind of like it (minus the styling and luke warm acceleration say VS a Honda Pilot or CX5 turbo), but the price is absurd! Ford is cleaning up on that thing if they sell it anywhere remotely close to MSRP.

 

[jimmystiff]

Brian,

Sorry, I have to call you out on your continued insistence that, "you are rolling the dice" There is absolutely no risk in an owner either, 1., doing his own scheduled maintenance work that is documented or 2., going to an independent for maintenance that, again, is documented (owners even have the option of entering scheduled maintenance into Carfax, for example, directly by creating an account. There is nothing "foolish" about not using a dealer's Service Dept. (this is one of the biggest myths in the auto industry and you need to stop posting alarmist and untrue claims around this). Again, this is based on my 10+ years working for two OEMs (in their corporate Warranty Departments).

No doubt many people change their own oil and many have no had issue with warranty claims. That being said, there are many accounts online of people doing their own oil changes and having difficulty getting a claim covered. The concern would be for something failing related to engine oil, not something like a coolant reservoir or say a coil pack failing.

Like I said, you are rolling the dice. The odds may not be terrible, but it is a risk I rather not deal with. It is a personal choice but there is nothing wrong having this discussion as it would be foolish to not consider the various outcomes ahead of time and to trying to convince yourself or others that you will be 100% OK is foolish.

 

[BrianC302]

Ok Jimmy, think what you want but I am not making this up. It isn't an isolated incident.... I posted one link where someone got hosed and there are many others out there that can be found with a quick Google.

You vast experience and perceptions have no bearing on reality with KIA warranty claims.

 

[jimmystiff]

Brian,

I really can't understand your stubbornness on this because of something you read on the internet. I'm telling you as an ex warranty specialist working at both domestic and foreign OEMs, there is no basis (i.e., legal) for denying warranty claims on documented service (either conducted via an authorized dealer, independent, or owner). I'm not "thinking" this, I'm empirically stating this as a truth (just go and read your Kia Warranty book and stop using Google and stop believing everything you read on the inter-webs).

Ok Jimmy, think what you want but I am not making this up. It isn't an isolated incident.... I posted one link where someone got hosed and there are many others out there that can be found with a quick Google.

You vast experience and perceptions have no bearing on reality with KIA warranty claims.

 

[BrianC302]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

People are not making up all of these stories because they have nothing better to do. KIA has a reputation for being sticklers on warranty claims. I am not arguing that more often than not IF one properly documents their maintenance that they will be OK. What I am saying is that there have been instances with KIA has made folks lives VERY difficult and they have had claims denied or had to get a lawyer (while in some cases their can sits there for weeks or months) to straighten things out.

Another example that I saw was a car that had sludge buildup in the engine and they tried to file a claim. They had documentations showing they had oil changes completed by an independent shop but it looked pretty clear they were not actually changing the oil! Long story short, KIA did not pay for the engine replacement. These things happen. They are documented. Yes, I don't believe everything I see on the internet but I also don't believe corporations will always have their customers best interests in mind all of the time. Not serving your car at a KIA dealership while in warranty is rolling the dice as if you have an issue, they may make life very difficult for you. I prefer to stack the odds as much as possible in my favor as it makes me comfortable. If you feel comfortable doing what you are doing, good for you. Do what you want, it doesn't make a difference to me but don't act like the things I am talking about don't happen... because they do.

 

[ecanderson]

Brian,

I really can't understand your stubbornness on this because of something you read on the internet. I'm telling you as an ex warranty specialist working at both domestic and foreign OEMs, there is no basis (i.e., legal) for denying warranty claims on documented service (either conducted via an authorized dealer, independent, or owner). I'm not "thinking" this, I'm empirically stating this as a truth (just go and read your Kia Warranty book and stop using Google and stop believing everything you read on the inter-webs).

I don't think that Brian is claiming that the consumer won't prevail in the end - the law is the law - but rather, that the consumer may get seriously jerked around by a manufacturer before achieving a just result.

Having watched this and the Hyundai forum for a number of years, there seems to be quite a difference in customer service north vs. south of the 49th parallel. On the whole, we have seen much less cooperation from dealers and corporate offices in Canada. As I noted in my earlier post, I would not be the least surprised if that one anecdotal report came from someone in Canada. Sadly, it sounds about typical. When reading these stories, it is very important to first ask where the author IS.

While we see very few issues with Magnuson-Moss here, there is no direct analogue in Canada -- it's a province by province thing with individual Consumer Protection Acts and a national Canadian Competition Act. Thanks to the latter, "Tied Selling" isn't legal there, either, but it doesn't mean that there isn't more resistance under the various Consumer Protection Acts to accepting the supplied documentation from the owner.

 

[jimmystiff]

Yes, I don't know the laws in Canada; my knowledge and expertise on warranty writing and claims are specific to the US market (though often the language is the same in the US and Canada, at least at that the two OEMs I worked at)

 

[jimmystiff]

I'm not arguing whether they happen or not; again, I'm saying Kia cannot NOT honor a warranty claim because an owner decides to document and perform his or her own maintenance. You are not "stacking the odds as much as possible in your favor" via getting an oil and filter change at your local dealership versus an independent, for example. If your car engine suddenly blows up after 20K miles and your independent did two oil and filter changes for you (and it's documented) and your computer didn't throw or store any other codes since the vehicle was produced, Kia has to honor your warranty. Now, if some regional rep or manager at he corporate level wants to be a pain in the ass and "research" the issue and go back and forth and simply not issue an engine replacement under warranty then that may happen (in any possible world) but they will (and have to) eventually replace the engine under warranty (and whether you got the first two oil and filter changes at your dealership has nothing to do with what is motivating the behavior of that regional rep or employee).

There is a huge misnomer among car owners that service needs to be performed at authorized dealerships and it's just not true (whether it be on the service quality side or warranty side). The best way to go for some consumers is to find a good independent and stick with him or her (especially if the customer plans on keeping his or her vehicle for the long term).

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

People are not making up all of these stories because they have nothing better to do. KIA has a reputation for being sticklers on warranty claims. I am not arguing that more often than not IF one properly documents their maintenance that they will be OK. What I am saying is that there have been instances with KIA has made folks lives VERY difficult and they have had claims denied or had to get a lawyer (while in some cases their can sits there for weeks or months) to straighten things out.

Another example that I saw was a car that had sludge buildup in the engine and they tried to file a claim. They had documentations showing they had oil changes completed by an independent shop but it looked pretty clear they were not actually changing the oil! Long story short, KIA did not pay for the engine replacement. These things happen. They are documented. Yes, I don't believe everything I see on the internet but I also don't believe corporations will always have their customers best interests in mind all of the time. Not serving your car at a KIA dealership while in warranty is rolling the dice as if you have an issue, they may make life very difficult for you. I prefer to stack the odds as much as possible in my favor as it makes me comfortable. If you feel comfortable doing what you are doing, good for you. Do what you want, it doesn't make a difference to me but don't act like the things I am talking about don't happen... because they do.

 

[ron1004]

Negotiating on an Edge ST, 401A spec.

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I have the 2017 Edge Sport with the 401A package and two years later and 37K miles, I'm still very happy with it.

Mine has the same engine as yours at 315 HP, and I recall the ST produces a little more.

Put a JLT catch-can on ASAP.

 

[BrianC302]

I'm saying Kia cannot NOT honor a warranty claim because an owner decides to document and perform his or her own maintenance. You are not "stacking the odds as much as possible in your favor" via getting an oil and filter change at your local dealership versus an independent, for example. If your car engine suddenly blows up after 20K miles and your independent did two oil and filter changes for you (and it's documented) and your computer didn't throw or store any other codes since the vehicle was produced, Kia has to honor your warranty.

No, you wrong. Actually, the can not honor a warranty claim or at minimum make you jump through all kinds of hoops (which could take weeks or months to sort out) and there are documented instances where this has happened. And yes, you are stacking the odds in your favor as if something goes wrong and a KIA dealer did all of the services as it would be 100% on KIA.

If you use an independent per your example, KIA could simply say they don't believe the independent changed the oil properly (the sludge example I gave) and where does that leave the customer? You would be in a world of hurt trying to get things straighten out! Don't try to make things so black and white, because they are not always that way. There is an added level of protection to the consumer by having KIA do the important services. There are so many dynamics and possible scenarios that can happen making things very difficult for customer related to warranty claims.

 

[jimmystiff]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm not sure how many times or different ways I can make this factual claim to you, but here goes: if all scheduled maintenance as described in your owner's manual is performed and documented, either by an authorized dealer, independent mechanic, or owner Kia cannot obstruct a warranty claim (they can try) but there is no legal basis. There is no "stacking the odds" by going to a Kia Dealer versus an independent on scheduled maintenance if an issue surfaces.

Kia cannot state that an oil change was not completed properly by an independent, just like Kia cannot state that an oil change was not completed properly by a certified dealer (both document the oil change and update service records).

There is no "world of hurt" or "added protection" if you have scheduled maintenance done at a dealer. I've written more warranty manuals and handled more challenges of warranty claims then you have had morning cups of coffee. You are out of your league and talking nonsense and unwilling to listen to an expert.

No, you wrong. Actually, the can not honor a warranty claim or at minimum make you jump through all kinds of hoops (which could take weeks or months to sort out) and there are documented instances where this has happened. And yes, you are stacking the odds in your favor as if something goes wrong and a KIA dealer did all of the services as it would be 100% on KIA.

If you use an independent per your example, KIA could simply say they don't believe the independent changed the oil properly (the sludge example I gave) and where does that leave the customer? You would be in a world of hurt trying to get things straighten out! Don't try to make things so black and white, because they are not always that way. There is an added level of protection to the consumer by having KIA do the important services. There are so many dynamics and possible scenarios that can happen making things very difficult for customer related to warranty claims.

 

[hand-filer]

I have the 2017 Edge Sport with the 401A package and two years later and 37K miles, I'm still very happy with it.

Mine has the same engine as yours at 315 HP, and I recall the ST produces a little more.

Put a JLT catch-can on ASAP.

Nice! We seem to have similar tastes. Good advice on the catch can. I have a JPC 4 stage on the Mustang along with a spare one. Also have a JLT catch can in my inventory.

Cheers!

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[ecanderson]

No, you wrong. Actually, the can not honor a warranty claim or at minimum make you jump through all kinds of hoops (which could take weeks or months to sort out) and there are documented instances where this has happened.

First, please provide the geographic locations for these anecdotes. I note YOU are SOUTH of the 49th parallel, so stories to the north wouldn't be relevant to your personal concerns. In the U.S., when anything resembling proper documentation is provided by the customer, I RARELY note instances where Kia has made difficulty for their customers on warranty claims. If you lived in Canada, I might give a little more credence to your concerns.

 

[BrianC302]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm not sure how many times or different ways I can make this factual claim to you, but here goes: if all scheduled maintenance as described in your owner's manual is performed and documented, either by an authorized dealer, independent mechanic, or owner Kia cannot obstruct a warranty claim (they can try) but there is no legal basis. There is no "stacking the odds" by going to a Kia Dealer versus an independent on scheduled maintenance if an issue surfaces.

Kia cannot state that an oil change was not completed properly by an independent, just like Kia cannot state that an oil change was not completed properly by a certified dealer (both document the oil change and update service records).

There is no "world of hurt" or "added protection" if you have scheduled maintenance done at a dealer. I've written more warranty manuals and handled more challenges of warranty claims then you have had morning cups of coffee. You are out of your league and talking nonsense and unwilling to listen to an expert.

Just because you have a slip of paper claiming that a service was performed doesn't mean it was done properly like in the sludge example already provided. If a "certified" dealership did the service, ultimately KIA cannot fault you for improper service. If you took it to an independent, they can. There is nothing more for me to say, I have already said it.

Also, I don't drink coffee so your attempt at wit was lacking lol. Your lack of ability to comprehend your flawed logic makes me question your self proclaimed tittle of "expert". Things are not black and white.

 

[ron1004]

Nice! We seem to have similar tastes. Good advice on the catch can. I have a JPC 4 stage on the Mustang along with a spare one. Also have a JLT catch can in my inventory.

Cheers!

See my wife's 2015 V6 Mustang (5.0 would be nice, but she doesn't need that) - doing the transmission fluid and trans filter change at 50K mi.

 

[jimmystiff]

Sorry, I meant to cite something you've done many times (let's say drinking water).

Actually, all you need is a receipt of parts bought or used and service performed (with a date) - all OEMs in the US will accept this type of documentation (on standard service, at least; and I may need to double check high end brands with more technical scheduled maintenance, such as Bugati, Ferrari, etc.).

Again, you have absolutely no factual data to back this up and ancedotal "research" on the inter-webs doesn't count. I'm making it a point to call this out because I think it's important to dis-spell certain myths in automotive maintenance, such as your un-true claim that warranties will be honored, more rigidly, because scheduled maintenance is performed at a branded dealership.

Just because you have a slip of paper claiming that a service was performed doesn't mean it was done properly like in the sludge example already provided. If a "certified" dealership did the service, ultimately KIA cannot fault you for improper service. If you took it to an independent, they can. There is nothing more for me to say, I have already said it.

Also, I don't drink coffee so your attempt at wit was lacking lol. Your lack of ability to comprehend your flawed logic makes me question your self proclaimed tittle of "expert". Things are not black and white.

 

[pfontainejr]

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

 

[ron1004]

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

Yes, in the US we are protected by that act, which not only allows us to do our own services, use an independent service shop, and even use non-OEM parts, ........ but when a warranty claim is made and service history is questioned, the vehicle owner needs to provide evidence of the service history.

We've had a few on the forum that found it absurd that Kia didn't tell them upfront to keep evidence of the service history, but thankfully those foolish ones are in the minority.

I buy my service parts and materials in bulk when on special and keep all receipts, record all work on an Excel spreadsheet, iPhone photos of my mileage showing the oil life, and log it with CarFax.