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2016 Sorento SXL
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"January 18 - while tech test driving car, problem returns."
And should have limped back to the dealer and started with my post #9.

A single cylinder failure, and one that as in this case really, REALLY doesn't sound mechanical, has only one of two basic failure modes -- lack of spark (and at the right time) or lack of fuel. Supposedly we have eliminated the injector and plug for that cylinder through replacement.

Tech has to be prepared to monitor signals to both injector and coil while the failure occurs. A positive result for either of those, and it's time to backtrack through the copper to the source for whichever was failing. NO need to do anything exotic unless a negative result found at both of those two failure points during misfires.

Perhaps a smarter move would be to watch the fuel trim during failure. The status of the injector and plug is going to show up there since the result in the exhaust represents 1/3 of the total combustion product for that bank!
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #22
So valves changed and problem still exists. This go round car has been at dealer since 12/26. At this point dealer has given me a loaner which I will use until car is fixed or replaced. I've been told I will be re-imbursed for all lease payments since problem started in addition to a negotiated pain/suffering settlement from Kia. Granted they keep their word, I basically get a 2020 Sportage for free since November until whenever.

Based on handling and utter lack of ability to fix, Kia has lost a customer for life but they don't seem to care. I am just one after all.

And yes, dealer has said they can't waste anymore time working on this car. They are losing money on this. Field tech keeps guessing at fixes that dealer tech needs to try.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #23
  • there is a short to ECM at times
  • When you re start car, you clear code
  • til the short causes a ECM reset
Without diagnostics, that is nothing but guessing.
They've replaced all plugs. coils, and ECM - no help.
 

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Sorento LX V6 2018
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I guess you leave the car at the dealership and drive the Sportage until your lease is up. Kia will have reimbursed you for all the lease payments over that period of time (couple years still at this point I guess) so you will have driven the Sportage for free and without worrying about exceeding mileage limitations. Turn in at the end of the lease is super easy since the car is already there. I would make sure I have something in writing from Kia about reimbursing you for lease payments until the car is fixed and then just enjoy driving the Sportage for free.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #25
So they thought they had it fixed and while test driving over 3 days, around 150 miles in misfire returned. While misfiring they found "crank sensor dropping out on the scope". Parts ordered and replaced, Got the car back yesterday so we shall see.
 

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2016 Sorento SXL
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Missing pulse detection from a bad crank position sensor should have thrown its own code. Also won't usually cause a specific P030x code to appear (i.e., not a specific cylinder) which I believe was originally reported back on page 1 of this thread. So while I remain hopeful on your behalf, I wouldn't hold my breath just yet.
 

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Sorento SX FWD 2015
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+1 agree with above, missing or bad range CPS signal should throw a P0336, and marginally defective signal would falsely indicate misfires on all cylinders. There is a rare chance of mechanically defective slot(s) on the target wheel (reluctor) on the crankshaft in the cyl 1 power cycle area coupled with a lower than normal, but functioning CPS signal causing a false P0301. I would love to have seen a pic of the scope output of the CPS waveform during the cyl 1 power cycle.
Secondly with the engine running crappy when it failed the 0301 sounded like a real misfire, not false which is how a failing CPS signal would show. Or maybe it could be just a crappy software routine not analyzing or reporting the error correctly. . ALSO.. never saw that they replaced the injector driver board, it's between the ECM and the injectors and contains the power driver circuitry. Lets see how this goes...
 

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I would love to have seen a pic of the scope output of the CPS waveform during the cyl 1 power cycle.
+1 to that. Would be very interested to know what they saw there.
ALSO.. never saw that they replaced the injector driver board, it's between the ECM and the injectors and contains the power driver circuitry.
+1 to that as well. As noted much earlier, unless they're looking at both the power signal at the injector(s) and coil(s) when there's a failure, they really don't know whether the problem is on the fuel or spark side to begin with, and that kind of 'divide and conquer' approach is about as basic a troubleshooting method as there is.

Unless there's a major mechanical issue, you just have to have fuel mix, spark and timing correct to go bang the right way. Timing is the 3rd variable, but if whacked, will likely show up on one of the other two as off in the time domain vs. missing altogether. The STARTING point of the work isn't rocket science - internal combustion engines have had all 3 as potential issues since the first one was built. What comes after initial diagnosis can, I'll admit, become a good bit more entertaining, but they don't seem to have started in a logical fashion on this one once they got the original P0301 code.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #29
And as predicted - misfire returned. It seems to happen once you hit 150 miles after the computer is reset. Back to dealer, back in loaner. I told them today "no rush fixing it - I'll keep the loaner until the end of the lease and wait for my refund check from Kia corporate for all lease payments back to November 17"
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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Wow....sad series of events. I really hope you get your cash back from this debacle.
 

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Sorento LX V6 2018
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Glad you are leasing as I really do think you can come ahead on this one just make sure you have their commitment to reimburse for the lease payments documented. Unfortunately, the diagnostic systems on these cars doesn't always point to the root cause, only the effect, but technicians are being taught to just follow what the computer says or a decision tree developed by the bean counters. True diagnosticians are becoming a rare, but very, very well paid, breed.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #32
Got the car back yesterday. Replaced the main control wiring harness. I have been told they have now replaced every possible component tied into this scenario. Hopefully optimistic but woefully prepared.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #33
+1 agree with above, missing or bad range CPS signal should throw a P0336, and marginally defective signal would falsely indicate misfires on all cylinders. There is a rare chance of mechanically defective slot(s) on the target wheel (reluctor) on the crankshaft in the cyl 1 power cycle area coupled with a lower than normal, but functioning CPS signal causing a false P0301. I would love to have seen a pic of the scope output of the CPS waveform during the cyl 1 power cycle.
Secondly with the engine running crappy when it failed the 0301 sounded like a real misfire, not false which is how a failing CPS signal would show. Or maybe it could be just a crappy software routine not analyzing or reporting the error correctly. . ALSO.. never saw that they replaced the injector driver board, it's between the ECM and the injectors and contains the power driver circuitry. Lets see how this goes...

They did replace the injector driver board
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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This is a tough one and your holding up surprising well!
Keep us informed as time goes on......Thanks
 

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Got the car back yesterday. Replaced the main control wiring harness. I have been told they have now replaced every possible component tied into this scenario. Hopefully optimistic but woefully prepared.
wiring and harness is where I put my money in post #8. Keep us posted as you roll the dice.
 

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2019 Sorento
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November 16 - car almost stalled while at red light. Once I gave it some gas, fine rest of the day
November 17 - while driving on highway sudden violent shaking, CEL on, loss of power, limped to location.
November 18 - drove to dealer, no problem and no CEL - computer doesn't show anything. Dealer kept for 2 days, couldn't duplicate problem.
November 20 - problem comes back, drive to dealer while happening, misfire cylinder 1. Need to order plug
November 22 - get car back, 1 plug replaced. Running well.
November 24 - problem returns
November 25 - back to dealer. There a few days, get OK to change all plugs and coils. There until December 6
December 6 - within 2 hours of getting car, problem returned.
December 9 - video of problem sent to dealer.
December 10 - back to dealer - they have for almost 2 weeks. Report bad injector. Problem fixed. Get car December 21.
December 25 - same problem back, but worse. Car shaking, loss of cylinder, poor gas mileage, horrible sulfur smell.
December 26 - back to dealer and waiting on Kia Field Service Tech
January 16 - tech diagnosis of bad ECM - replaced.
January 18 - while tech test driving car, problem returns.
January 22 - still no car and using 4th loaner from dealer.

Maybe the Internet can solve my problem? What's causing the misfire in cylinder 1?
How many miles. Your problem sounds like a classic carbon build up issue, GDI engines can suffer from misfires given carbon deposits, especially after 35K-40K miles.
 

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If so, it would certainly be an exceptional case on this particular engine. Given the number on the road (and the number represented here), few reports of anything that could be even be related to serious carbon buildup, much less reports of discovering it as an issue by direct observation.
 

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How many miles. Your problem sounds like a classic carbon build up issue, GDI engines can suffer from misfires given carbon deposits, especially after 35K-40K miles.
That's not my observations with Kia and other brands, including my 53K mile Ford, and very unlikely in the case of the OP's car.
 

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2018 Sorento 2.4L AWD
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Discussion Starter #39
How many miles. Your problem sounds like a classic carbon build up issue, GDI engines can suffer from misfires given carbon deposits, especially after 35K-40K miles.
28k. They did check valves and found deposits. All replaced and misfire continued. Wiring harness changed and so far 6 days and no problems.
 
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